BFTG Wigan

[Royal Lady]

That was almost (Reading) career suicide by Brian Mac yesterday. I've always supported him, and will continue to do so, but if he's going to pick out the mistakes of players (e.g. Pearce) then he has to accept his own mistakes too. Yesterday I feared the worst when I saw how appallingly negative our starting lineup was. THREE holding midfielders? Our best performance in recent weeks, in footballing terms, was at home to Sunderland. Why on earth we changed the lineup for the Stoke game and then again for yesterday's game, I do not know. The lack of technical ability in our whole club and absence of creativity is frightening.

I don't know what the issue with Guthrie is again now, but if Brian really cares about what's best for the club, him and Pearce both need to play against Everton.

^ this +1 million.

To those who question my comment that McD has lost the plot - ^^ this sums up why I say it.

[Jacko_Lantern]

Anyway..... FFS - IT IS POGREBNYAK - not Pashnikov, Poganovski, Pavshenski, Pashov, Pogmentov or Pagrenovic.

Not as bad as me pal. I had a bloke call Le Fondre 'Lafayetta' and Federici 'Fedanski'
Plastic fans- should at least know your own squads names!

[RoyalBlue]

That was almost (Reading) career suicide by Brian Mac yesterday. I've always supported him, and will continue to do so, but if he's going to pick out the mistakes of players (e.g. Pearce) then he has to accept his own mistakes too. Yesterday I feared the worst when I saw how appallingly negative our starting lineup was. THREE holding midfielders? Our best performance in recent weeks, in footballing terms, was at home to Sunderland. Why on earth we changed the lineup for the Stoke game and then again for yesterday's game, I do not know. The lack of technical ability in our whole club and absence of creativity is frightening.

I don't know what the issue with Guthrie is again now, but if Brian really cares about what's best for the club, him and Pearce both need to play against Everton.

Yesterday was so bad, I don't even know where to begin. We're playing at home against the second bottom side in the league and we're happy to sit back, allow them to have time on the ball and then hope for something on the break. This is Wigan Athletic, not Athletico Madrid! Brian needs to watch how Southampton have been playing under Pochettino and try and implement that style of high-tempo, high pressing game. The service to Pog, or whoever will play next week, is non-existent, so until we can begin to create genuine chances and not percentage balls into the box or down the channels, we can not compete.

We went in 2-0 down, perhaps a bit flattering for them, but Kebe aside (in the first half) we were pretty dreadful. I said to my mate at HT, that I hope we bring HRK in for Karacan, put Jobi in the middle and see how it goes for 10-15 mins and then bring Alf on. But we went 442 and went 3-0 down straight away and then down to 10 men, and Brian went with a weird 4-3-2 formation without a right winger? Not that it would have made much difference, even with Kebe on the pitch, but I struggle to see what he was trying to do. The rest of the game was a training ground exercise for them with Kelly having to deal with two men all the way through till the end.

Fed kept it respectable yesterday and is the only guy to come out with any credit. Kebe and Kelly were maybe worth a 6/10, with the rest mainly at 4/10, with Pog and Morrison a 3/10.

The only reason Pog should get as low as 3 is his stupidity in getting sent off. He worked his balls off during the time he was on the pitch, hassled defenders and held the ball up pretty well but he was left as isolated as a sodding hermit and McDermott and his so-called teammates are responsible for that. WTF is Pog meant to do when the ball knocked long to him and there isn't a teammate within thirty yards of him?! What's more, when he does hold the ball up he has to wait an eternity for other players to make their way forward and, even then, it's usually only one or two!

Pog aside, in the first half the only two players who really looked up for it were Feds, Akpan and Kebe. The latter did brilliantly to keep nipping in and nicking the ball off Wigan players.

[Winnershroyal]

One moment early doors summed up the whole match.

Mcanuff receives a simple two yard pass out on left wing. He then proceeds to pass it to a player two yards away but passes it out of play. Then has the audacity to check and blame his boots!

Summed up the whole day.

^ This and Legs hoofing into the East Stand a la Peter Kay.

It was that type of day.

[paultheroyal]

One moment early doors summed up the whole match.

Mcanuff receives a simple two yard pass out on left wing. He then proceeds to pass it to a player two yards away but passes it out of play. Then has the audacity to check and blame his boots!

Summed up the whole day.

^ This and Legs hoofing into the East Stand a la Peter Kay.

It was that type of day.

That was odd from legs. Pointless act.

[_royal]

I'd actually like to see Jay Tabb in the squad.

[West_Reading]

I don't know what the issue with Guthrie is again now, but if Brian really cares about what's best for the club...need to play against Everton.

Well that didn't take long at all.
Oh Guthrie, he's Messi, Ronaldo and Ibrahimovic all rolled into one, it must be so difficult for him to be such a megastar, I bet Maradona wishes he was only just half as successful as him in his career.

No he's not Messi, or Ronaldo, or Ibrahimovic. He's probably not even a Joe Allen. He hasn't even been brilliant every time he's played this season, but who has? The fact is he has not had a consistent run of games and he's something DIFFERENT to all our other midfielders at the club. I don't even mind us going down, I'll happily look forward to Swindon at home next season but I'd like to see us going down playing football and being positive.

Guthrie was MOTM vs WBA and oddly enough, has hardly started a game since.

[RoyalinBracknell]

The whole game/ground just seemed pretty flat from start to finish. When you can hear the referee shouting instructions at the players it's not a good sign of an atmosphere! Nobody from Reading really seemed up for it, which is pretty surprising considering the importance of the game.

I think the Sunderland home game a few weeks ago was our best performance of the season, certainly in the 4-5-1 variety. I am, therefore, somewhat bemused that we haven't played that starting 11 since. I think starting Karacan and Morrison yesterday was a mistake, as was taking Akpan off at half-time.

Pogrebnyak's suspension leaves us with very limited attacking options. Our unlikely chances of getting anything away against Everton or Manchester United have surely decreased that little bit further, but I think it's fair to say Villa will be the major match out of the 3. I'd expect us to keep 4-5-1 away to Everton and United - perhaps with Noel Hunt up front? Hardly ideal - but the Villa match will be interesting to see a possible formation change. The problem is that the likes of Hunt and Le Fondre don't really seem like effective lone strikers but equally if you start 2 you then have fewer attacking options on the bench should the game be going against you and you potentially get outnumbered in midfield. Perhaps worth keeping 4-5-1 and just accepting that in the first half you might not create too much from open play? Not too dissimilar from normal really!

The second goal right on the stroke of half-time was the real killer yesterday. Given our willingness to just lump the ball forward it was a little disconcerting that one of the few times that might have been useful - as injury time trickled into its final stages - the players instead started playing it round at their back. That produced a negative reaction in itself but to lose the ball and then concede a second was just suicidal. Great goal from a Wigan perspective mind. They played some very good football yesterday - once more we seemed unable to deal with their tactics, nor did we manage to cope with a passing team. They don't seem to suit us!

As disappointing as the result was, the fact remains that we're only 1 point away from 17th. If we can keep it to this, even going into the final matches of the season then we've at least got some kind of chance - probably a better one than many of us would have expected even 2 months ago. So a very bad day at the office yesterday but the challenge now to the players is to make sure it's only a blip. It doesn't have to be a terminal blow.

[RoyalBlue]

That minute of added time at the end of the first half seemed incredibly long, even allowing for the 'minimum of one minute'. All the time we were buggering around passing the ball between us when, for once, we should have just been hitting it forward, I was expecting Dowd to blow (I was shouting 'get if forward, he's going to blow in a moment' )but the half just went on and on. In the end MOTD gave time of goal as 45+2 - so just where did the requirement for that much added time come from? Did we again suffer from a ref wrongly deciding not to blow until a phase of play had ended?

[howser]

More to the point amid this BFTG where the hell is our Portugese saviour ??? what a fantastic piece of business that was................buy a player who aint fit enough to play.............................. priceless !!! only matched by our "Prem experienced" third division signings ?? some of the most pointless signings we have ever made ! we spend our time with the "he is one for the future" load of tosh, seems to me we needed some for "the now" maybe ???????

[RoyalinBracknell]

That minute of added time at the end of the first half seemed incredibly long, even allowing for the 'minimum of one minute'. All the time we were buggering around passing the ball between us when, for once, we should have just been hitting it forward, I was expecting Dowd to blow (I was shouting 'get if forward, he's going to blow in a moment' )but the half just went on and on. In the end MOTD gave time of goal as 45+2 - so just where did the requirement for that much added time come from? Did we again suffer from a ref wrongly deciding not to blow until a phase of play had ended?

According to BBC live text the goal was scored 1 minute and 3 seconds into injury time. So we can't really have any complaints.

[RoyalBlue]

More to the point amid this BFTG where the hell is our Portugese saviour ??? what a fantastic piece of business that was................buy a player who aint fit enough to play.............................. priceless !!! only matched by our "Prem experienced" third division signings ?? some of the most pointless signings we have ever made ! we spend our time with the "he is one for the future" load of tosh, seems to me we needed some for "the now" maybe ???????

But they cost a lot more money.

When we finally succeed in making a truly big money signing (in PL terms) then all these claimed attempts that 'didn't quite come off' might just start to sound a little more credible.

[RoyalBlue]

That minute of added time at the end of the first half seemed incredibly long, even allowing for the 'minimum of one minute'. All the time we were buggering around passing the ball between us when, for once, we should have just been hitting it forward, I was expecting Dowd to blow (I was shouting 'get if forward, he's going to blow in a moment' )but the half just went on and on. In the end MOTD gave time of goal as 45+2 - so just where did the requirement for that much added time come from? Did we again suffer from a ref wrongly deciding not to blow until a phase of play had ended?

According to BBC live text the goal was scored 1 minute and 3 seconds into injury time. So we can't really have any complaints.

Their 'Live Text' is so slow and late that I wouldn't attach any credibility to that at all. Certainly seemed a helluva lot longer than 1 minute and that was with us in possession for most of that time.

[Victor Meldrew]

I was a bit surprised at Jobi and Pog bearing the brunt of the criticism on BBCRB yesterday when everybody bar Feds,Kelly and Kebe were poor.
The reason for the heavy criticism was presumably that in a very important game the players looked as though they were playing a friendly.
We do best when it is all-action stuff with the opposition being closed down quickly and yet yesterday,despite having 3 defensive midfielders we just let them play.
Also when you play with just 1 up it's essential that at least one midfielder gets up to join the lone striker and I can only remember Akpan getting forward twice in the first hallf to perform that role and,poor lad,at the moment he lacks the calm needed and he might just be overeager.

What I admire about Wigan is that they play the passing game regardless of how desperate their plight and have shown season after season that you can survive ,despite having to sell all of your bbest players,by passing-hoofball is not essential to survive.
There seems little point in criticising individual players yesterday-I think it is a day for Brian to take the criticism not just for player selection (Pearce might have been as bad as Morrison and Shorey might have beenn as bad as Harte) but more so about playing 3 non-creative midfielders at home against a team below us in the league.

Brian always goes on about trying to win games (usually when we give the other side a one or two goal start) but yesterday I think he bottled it by trying not to lose whereas Martinez boldly went for the win.
Fortunately our destiny is still in our hands and it might be a good idea to go bonding at some out-of-bounds course rather than swanning around in Ireland or Dubai-it certainly looked more like them being at a holiiday camp than fighting for their lives or was it just a bit too cold for the poor luvs?

[Snowball]

The only reason Pog should get as low as 3 is his stupidity in getting sent off. He worked his balls off during the time he was on the pitch, hassled defenders and held the ball up pretty well but he was left as isolated as a sodding hermit and McDermott and his so-called teammates are responsible for that. WTF is Pog meant to do when the ball knocked long to him and there isn't a teammate within thirty yards of him?! What's more, when he does hold the ball up he has to wait an eternity for other players to make their way forward and, even then, it's usually only one or two!

Pog aside, in the first half the only two players who really looked up for it were Feds, Akpan and Kebe. The latter did brilliantly to keep nipping in and nicking the ball off Wigan players.

A few of you whiners (not you, RB) would do well do re-read the posts in the live match thread. Up until that first Wigan goal there is a lot of praise
for Leigertwood, Akpan, Kebe, Feds. Pog held the ball up brilliantly in the first half (and I am not a Pog fan), and apart from the first few minutes
we closed down, got in their faces and worked our socks off.

Two different styles but we were playing well against a side which has some excellent players and is well-managed. There was a great tackle to stop Pog,
Kebe's shot was going in but curved the wrong side of the post. Their first goal was a bit random, and the scorer knew very little about it.

Up to 42 minutes I was more than happy. I thought Wigan looked great going forward but were vulnerable at the back when pressured. L'wood,
Kebe, Karacan, Akpan, Kelly, Pog were all playing well up to that point but having to chase very hard and likely to tire after the hour,

OK, a slightly unlucky soft goal but we really went for it, looking for the equaliser. I'd bet on us to go 1 behind and win 2-1 even though
I really thought we'd lose against a classier, more Prem-experienced side.

The second goal, though, that was suicide. I have no idea why Harte didn't simply dink it into the Wigan area. He had time
and space and we had players up. An equaliser then and we'd have competed for the rest of the game.

The goal itself was a combination of errors, players under unnecessary pressure, and it killed the game.


Coming out 442 smacked of desperation, and was simply wrong. The first-half team needed 10-15 minutes of calm, keep it to no worse
than 0-2 and maybe get one back. McD's mistake IMO. No matter what people say about 442 (and generally I'm a fan) against Wigan it's
virtually guaranteed to fail.

Losing the third goal effectively means we LOST a point as it meant Wigan gained 3 points on us AND reached our GD.


For me, we now have to beat, and I do mean HAVE TO, Villa and must not lose to Saints but we also have to get a shock result
away from home and draws away. I don't see it and I still think we could finish bottom. Only a result at Everton (unlikely) will
make me start hoping again.


But my point is for the first 42 minutes we DID compete, did harass the opposition and, with an ounce of luck could
have gone in at HT ahead, or, at worst, on equal terms. What p!sses me off greatly is the automatic player-hate and
the readjustment of the realties. Pog was playing very well in a thankless role up until his moment of stupidity. Legs
IMO held us together, again in a thankless role.) Without him it would have been a cricket score.

First half Karacan was everywhere including, occasionally in from of the Pog. Kelly was solid, Akpan showed loads of promise.

OK, on 42/45 minutes it all collapsed but we weren't that bad. Down to 10 men we could have shipped ten goals. We didn't.

[Percy's Rocket]

More to the point amid this BFTG where the hell is our Portugese saviour ??? what a fantastic piece of business that was................buy a player who aint fit enough to play.............................. priceless !!! only matched by our "Prem experienced" third division signings ?? some of the most pointless signings we have ever made ! we spend our time with the "he is one for the future" load of tosh, seems to me we needed some for "the now" maybe ???????

+1 to this ..there are serious questions to be answered..we blew our chances in that window.

and I am not particularly a Guthrie fan but he can defend just as badly as the midfield players on show today AND he can pass.....

but probably more to the point and not with hindsight 451 is fair enough against the top sides or away to Stoke
but this was a game against a side supposedly at our level (though you would hardly have known it )

so you go 442 with an obvious in form partner fo Pog and play at our tempo instead of letting Wigan stroll around us.

and I am not convinced Pog did not do that on purpose...He has had enough..there will only be 8 games left when he can play
again and Robbo might just be fit by then....cheerio Pog

[Percy's Rocket]

and we would never ship ten goals with ten men because Wigan were perfectly happy with their three..the point is we did not get one or two when we had eleven..
Two of the best chances fell to Akpan who is simply not ready for this level...and Jimmy was being seriously closed down on his left foot shot so only half a chance.

[Snowball]

and we would never ship ten goals with ten men because Wigan were perfectly happy with their three..the point is we did not get one or two when we had eleven..
Two of the best chances fell to Akpan who is simply not ready for this level...and Jimmy was being seriously closed down on his left foot shot so only half a chance.

Watch the shot in slow mo

It's going in but bends away

[Maguire]

and we would never ship ten goals with ten men because Wigan were perfectly happy with their three..the point is we did not get one or two when we had eleven..
Two of the best chances fell to Akpan who is simply not ready for this level...and Jimmy was being seriously closed down on his left foot shot so only half a chance.

Watch the shot in slow mo

It's going in but bends away

So what, he misses.

[retro royal]

The problem is 2 transfer windows, no quality purchased, how many of our players would get into the Wigan team, that's the really worrying thing.

Feel like, I can't give a crap about the rest of the season, but I know I'll be back for more next week.