Positivity

[andrew1957]

When I look back at the squad that got us promoted last May I have to say that it is completely astounding that we even got in the top 10 last season let alone won the division. About 8 first team squad members left and not one of them has exactly pulled up trees anywhere else. Those that remained were largely journeymen or youngsters and we added a few more with perhaps greater quality - but largely unproven. Yes Anton could have got rid of everyone and started again, but that would a/ have been incredibly expensive and b/ meant zero continuity.

The season started badly. Most of us thought we were dead certs to go down at Christmas and then Brian and the guys performed a virtual miracle and turned it round and have at least made it interesting for the last few games. I still think we have a 50:50 chance of staying up. 5 wins from 11 is far from impossible.

And if not we will have a far better squad for 2013/14 than we had at the end of 2011/12 and be in pole position for a quick return and be much better equipped for the PL next time round.

So let’s back the boys and see if they can pull off the miracle and if not and we keep faith with Brian, I am sure we will have another exciting Championship promotion bid to look forward to.

[maffff]

Not in the mood. Count me out.

[barelylubedcock]

I think we should treat all the remaining games from here on in as cup finals.

[Harpers So Solid Crew]

If we go down the squad will implode, Feds will go McCarthy too, Pearce, Guthrie, Pog, possibly Kelly, Marriapa, Roberts, Le Fondre, and McCleary. Then we lose a few of the older players and what is left looks very bare.

I cannot see this lot getting back up, everyone knows how McD likes to play, and next season in The Champ will be a long slog, possibly against a further drop IMHO

[cmonurz]

And if not we will have a far better squad for 2013/14 than we had at the end of 2011/12 and be in pole position for a quick return and be much better equipped for the PL next time round.

Nope.

[SCIAG]

If we go down the squad will implode, Feds will go McCarthy too, Pearce, Guthrie, Pog, possibly Kelly, Marriapa, Roberts, Le Fondre, and McCleary. Then we lose a few of the older players and what is left looks very bare.

Sorry, I think that's ridiculous. Not as bad as andrew saying we had a bottom half squad last season mind. Nine of the eleven were amongst the best in the league in their position, the exceptions being the full backs.

We will lose Pearce, Guthrie, and Pog. I think those three are nailed on. We'll also try and move Shorey on.
I expect Federici will try to leave but then find nobody wants him. We might get offers for McCarthy but I think we'll decline them, especially if Federici goes. Andersen will want to go. That leaves Taylor and Henly.
We'll receive offers for Le Fondre, if he wants to go then I think we'll let him.
I don't think McCleary or Mariappa have earned moves away, particularly McCleary. Kelly? He's not pulled up any trees here and he's basically spent his career in and out of sides.
Kebe is a possibility.

Potential first team next season in the event of relegation: Feds/McCarthy, Kelly, Morrison, Mariappa, Gunter, McCleary, Leigertwood, Akpan, McAnuff, Hunt/Roberts, Le Fondre. Subs: Taylor, Gorkss, Harte, Karacan, HRK, new signing/Hunt, Samuel. That team would deservedly be favourites for promotion

[Royals and Racers]

If we go down the squad will implode, Feds will go McCarthy too, Pearce, Guthrie, Pog, possibly Kelly, Marriapa, Roberts, Le Fondre, and McCleary. Then we lose a few of the older players and what is left looks very bare.

Sorry, I think that's ridiculous. Not as bad as andrew saying we had a bottom half squad last season mind. Nine of the eleven were amongst the best in the league in their position, the exceptions being the full backs.

We will lose Pearce, Guthrie, and Pog. I think those three are nailed on. We'll also try and move Shorey on.
I expect Federici will try to leave but then find nobody wants him. We might get offers for McCarthy but I think we'll decline them, especially if Federici goes. Andersen will want to go. That leaves Taylor and Henly.
We'll receive offers for Le Fondre, if he wants to go then I think we'll let him.
I don't think McCleary or Mariappa have earned moves away, particularly McCleary. Kelly? He's not pulled up any trees here and he's basically spent his career in and out of sides.
Kebe is a possibility.

Potential first team next season in the event of relegation: Feds/McCarthy, Kelly, Morrison, Mariappa, Gunter, McCleary, Leigertwood, Akpan, McAnuff, Hunt/Roberts, Le Fondre. Subs: Taylor, Gorkss, Harte, Karacan, HRK, new signing/Hunt, Samuel. That team would deservedly be favourites for promotion

Don`t forget Obita

[Wimb]

If we go down the squad will implode, Feds will go McCarthy too, Pearce, Guthrie, Pog, possibly Kelly, Marriapa, Roberts, Le Fondre, and McCleary. Then we lose a few of the older players and what is left looks very bare.

Sorry, I think that's ridiculous. Not as bad as andrew saying we had a bottom half squad last season mind. Nine of the eleven were amongst the best in the league in their position, the exceptions being the full backs.

We will lose Pearce, Guthrie, and Pog. I think those three are nailed on. We'll also try and move Shorey on.
I expect Federici will try to leave but then find nobody wants him. We might get offers for McCarthy but I think we'll decline them, especially if Federici goes. Andersen will want to go. That leaves Taylor and Henly.
We'll receive offers for Le Fondre, if he wants to go then I think we'll let him.
I don't think McCleary or Mariappa have earned moves away, particularly McCleary. Kelly? He's not pulled up any trees here and he's basically spent his career in and out of sides.
Kebe is a possibility.

Potential first team next season in the event of relegation: Feds/McCarthy, Kelly, Morrison, Mariappa, Gunter, McCleary, Leigertwood, Akpan, McAnuff, Hunt/Roberts, Le Fondre. Subs: Taylor, Gorkss, Harte, Karacan, HRK, new signing/Hunt, Samuel. That team would deservedly be favourites for promotion

I'm sorry but I just don't see how that team is anywhere near a favourite to go up and even if it is, I'd very seriously worry if we put our faith in that team.

When you go down you have to take the baggage with you and having sampled the bright lights there's always a hangover, especially if you're retaining the bulk of the squad.

Look at how Bolton started this season.

Bogdan, Mears, Ream, Knight, Ricketts, Eagles, Andrews, M Davies, Spearing, Lee, K Davies - Bench: Lonergan, Alonso, Mills, Petrov, Pratley, Afobe, Sordell

I'm sorry but in my opinion that side contains just as much if not more quality than the lineup you've put forward. That doesn't look like a bunch of prima-donas either, it's full of players that have excelled not just in the Premier League but the Championship as well.

Bolton are 15th in the table.

If Reading go down then it's going to be tough to get that same togetherness going that spurred our past two promotions. As the 08/09 side showed, it's a very, very long season and things can change very quickly. I don't think we'd drop like Wolves but unless TSI were happy to commit some parachute money to serious restrengthening as West Brom did when they went down, then we'll be hoping for the play-offs.

[sandman]

Bolton also spent over 10 years in the Premier League whereas we would have spent 1 if we go down (and despite the absolutes that people on here spout in comments that they may as copy and paste after every defeat it is still an if). For clubs who have been used to playing in the PL for a few seasons it is a culture shock to go down to the Championship. Personally I don't see that effecting us as much as it has the likes of Bolton and Wolves.

[Z175]

I'm pretty sure we'll be very competitive if we go down.

We'd have a manager who has won the league, a squad of champions, and a competitive budget for 4 years given parachute payments.

We nearly came straight back up last time we got relegated, mainly as we kept our manager and most of our squad together. Despite having lost half the key players from the 106 team (Sidwell, Kitson, Shorey, Little, Sonko and effectively Murty, Convey and Gunnarsson) we were good enough for 4th and were close to an immediate return.

Obviously a lot of things went wrong but I dont think they will this time.
- Our manager left and we made a bad appointment.
- We then had to cut our cloth for the imminent ending of parachute payments and lost the remaining 106 team players in Hahnemann, Doyle, Harper, Lita, Hunt)
- We had an owner unable to sustain the losses necessary to be competitive in the Championship so had to sell players like Sigurdsson and Long who oculd have taken us back up eventually

But this time around I can't see Brian getting the push, I can't see a exodus of players from the team of Champions, and we have 4 years of parachute payments, an owner able to sustain losses and potentially an environment of financial fair play to hold in in teams like Leicester, Cardiff and QPR.

Obviously it took us 4 years to come back up, during which time we experienced being bottom of championship and staring league 1 in the face, turgid games with teams like Doncaster and Scunthorpe and so on.

So I can't see us spending 4 years in a row in the championship - in fact I'd appreciate a title campaign with a bit more drama then 2006 and a bit more time for glorification than 2012...

[SPARTA]

I think we should treat all the remaining games from here on in as cup finals.

Anyone wanna pass that onto the team? They missed Wigan.

[Z175]

Reading- Feds/McCarthy, Kelly, Morrison, Mariappa, Gunter, McCleary, Leigertwood, Akpan, McAnuff, Hunt/Roberts, Le Fondre. Subs: Taylor, Gorkss, Harte, Karacan, HRK, new signing/Hunt, Samuel. That team would deservedly be favourites for promotion

Bolton - Bogdan, Mears, Ream, Knight, Ricketts, Eagles, Andrews, M Davies, Spearing, Lee, K Davies - Bench: Lonergan, Alonso, Mills, Petrov, Pratley, Afobe, Sordell

I might be biased but I don't really remember any of those players doing anything special, other than Davies who will turn 37 during next season. I agree that Bogdan, M Davies, Pratley and Andrews are all good players but there is a huge difference between being good enough for a PL squad and being assured of winning the Championship.

Eagles had one good championship season but is the sort of player you need to stay in the Championship, not get promoted from. Spearings yet to do anything of note, Ream has only done well in MLS, Mears showed his skills in Derbys premierleague seaso... thats certainly not a line up I would expect to be shoe ins for the top 6.

Whereas if you look at our potential squad, most of those players either won the championship or were one of the best players in it.

I agree with the point that there are decent squads with PL experience struggling in the championship, but that always happens. What you need is knowledge of how to play in this league, a brilliant keepers, tight defence, a box to box midfield and strong strikers. I don't think Bolton have all those, but Reading definitely will!

[floyd__streete]

And if not we will have a far better squad for 2013/14 than we had at the end of 2011/12

Is it really 'far better' though? I am not sure that it is. Moot point whether you think it is or not, but what you can depend on is that the good performers from this season like ALF for example will be off in the summer.

[SCIAG]

I'm sorry but I just don't see how that team is anywhere near a favourite to go up and even if it is, I'd very seriously worry if we put our faith in that team.

When you go down you have to take the baggage with you and having sampled the bright lights there's always a hangover, especially if you're retaining the bulk of the squad.

Well, compare it to the side that went up.

The goalkeeper will be no worse. The full backs are better. The centre backs are slightly worse, but IMO at Championship level it shouldn't matter too much, and they have the physical qualities that Pearce and Gorkss lacked. McCleary isn't as good as Kebe, but he's still excellent. The midfield is at least as good as when we got promoted (if Akpan is worse than Jem and Legs- if he's better than either, it's an improvement). McAnuff and Hunt are the same players. Le Fondre admittedly won't work as well with Hunt as Roberts did, and that's my main concern- will we have an effective strike partnership? I had the same concerns when we last got relegated though, but NHunt-Doyle was more than adequate.

We have proven Championship quality. If we have a squad like the one I listed and don't make the playoffs or at least come close then something has gone wrong.

Of course, this assumes we even get relegated.

[Croydon Royal]

I'm sorry but I just don't see how that team is anywhere near a favourite to go up and even if it is, I'd very seriously worry if we put our faith in that team.

When you go down you have to take the baggage with you and having sampled the bright lights there's always a hangover, especially if you're retaining the bulk of the squad.

Well, compare it to the side that went up.

The goalkeeper will be no worse. The full backs are better. The centre backs are slightly worse, but IMO at Championship level it shouldn't matter too much, and they have the physical qualities that Pearce and Gorkss lacked. McCleary isn't as good as Kebe, but he's still excellent. The midfield is at least as good as when we got promoted (if Akpan is worse than Jem and Legs- if he's better than either, it's an improvement). McAnuff and Hunt are the same players. Le Fondre admittedly won't work as well with Hunt as Roberts did, and that's my main concern- will we have an effective strike partnership? I had the same concerns when we last got relegated though, but NHunt-Doyle was more than adequate.

We have proven Championship quality. If we have a squad like the one I listed and don't make the playoffs or at least come close then something has gone wrong.

Of course, this assumes we even get relegated.

Agree with this, and it also assumes that we don't actually sign anyone, which I seriously doubt with AZ at the helm - I can see him making a 'statement' signing to prove how seriously he wants to get back in the league, and with the amount of decent goalscorers out there wasting away at other clubs I don't think we'll be stuck with just Le Fondre and Hunt. I certainly don't think we'd walk the league but I'd expect us to be competitive, and with a good manager who knows how to keep a unit together I reckon we'd be fighting for the play offs.

[Wimb]

I'm pretty sure we'll be very competitive if we go down.

We'd have a manager who has won the league, a squad of champions, and a competitive budget for 4 years given parachute payments.

We nearly came straight back up last time we got relegated, mainly as we kept our manager and most of our squad together. Despite having lost half the key players from the 106 team (Sidwell, Kitson, Shorey, Little, Sonko and effectively Murty, Convey and Gunnarsson) we were good enough for 4th and were close to an immediate return.

Obviously a lot of things went wrong but I dont think they will this time.
- Our manager left and we made a bad appointment.
- We then had to cut our cloth for the imminent ending of parachute payments and lost the remaining 106 team players in Hahnemann, Doyle, Harper, Lita, Hunt)
- We had an owner unable to sustain the losses necessary to be competitive in the Championship so had to sell players like Sigurdsson and Long who oculd have taken us back up eventually

But this time around I can't see Brian getting the push, I can't see a exodus of players from the team of Champions, and we have 4 years of parachute payments, an owner able to sustain losses and potentially an environment of financial fair play to hold in in teams like Leicester, Cardiff and QPR.

Obviously it took us 4 years to come back up, during which time we experienced being bottom of championship and staring league 1 in the face, turgid games with teams like Doncaster and Scunthorpe and so on.

So I can't see us spending 4 years in a row in the championship - in fact I'd appreciate a title campaign with a bit more drama then 2006 and a bit more time for glorification than 2012...

It all sounds good on paper but again how do you know these things?

It makes a big assumption that A) we won't lose many players B) our remaining players perform at the same level, some well into their 30's. C) That Anton CAN sustain the losses, which given the actual level of investment we've seen from TSI so far, I'd argue remains to be seen.

How many sides bounce back even when they keep a squad together and provide big investment? Unless you're overwhelmingly strong like Newcastle or West Ham it's far, far from a given. Remember if we do go down, we'll be coming down with two other Premier League teams, not to mention sides like Bolton, Blackburn and Wolves who will still have 3 years of parachute payments, plus the perennially strong outfits like Hull, Forest, Brighton etc.

Financial fair play regulations will have a long time to really kick in and how much they'll make an impact/be enforced is also unknown at this stage.

Of course the above is the negative outlook based on a relegation scenario, however I'd try and retain a sense of perspective and remember just how bloody hard the Championship is.

[Big Ern]

When I look back at the squad that got us promoted last May I have to say that it is completely astounding that we even got in the top 10 last season let alone won the division. About 8 first team squad members left and not one of them has exactly pulled up trees anywhere else. Those that remained were largely journeymen or youngsters and we added a few more with perhaps greater quality - but largely unproven. Yes Anton could have got rid of everyone and started again, but that would a/ have been incredibly expensive and b/ meant zero continuity.

The season started badly. Most of us thought we were dead certs to go down at Christmas and then Brian and the guys performed a virtual miracle and turned it round and have at least made it interesting for the last few games. I still think we have a 50:50 chance of staying up. 5 wins from 11 is far from impossible.

And if not we will have a far better squad for 2013/14 than we had at the end of 2011/12 and be in pole position for a quick return and be much better equipped for the PL next time round.

So let’s back the boys and see if they can pull off the miracle and if not and we keep faith with Brian, I am sure we will have another exciting Championship promotion bid to look forward to.

Have you been drinking meths again?

50/50. My Arse. 10% chance of staying up at best.

[Wimb]

Reading- Feds/McCarthy, Kelly, Morrison, Mariappa, Gunter, McCleary, Leigertwood, Akpan, McAnuff, Hunt/Roberts, Le Fondre. Subs: Taylor, Gorkss, Harte, Karacan, HRK, new signing/Hunt, Samuel. That team would deservedly be favourites for promotion

Bolton - Bogdan, Mears, Ream, Knight, Ricketts, Eagles, Andrews, M Davies, Spearing, Lee, K Davies - Bench: Lonergan, Alonso, Mills, Petrov, Pratley, Afobe, Sordell

I might be biased but I don't really remember any of those players doing anything special, other than Davies who will turn 37 during next season. I agree that Bogdan, M Davies, Pratley and Andrews are all good players but there is a huge difference between being good enough for a PL squad and being assured of winning the Championship.

Eagles had one good championship season but is the sort of player you need to stay in the Championship, not get promoted from. Spearings yet to do anything of note, Ream has only done well in MLS, Mears showed his skills in Derbys premierleague seaso... thats certainly not a line up I would expect to be shoe ins for the top 6.

Whereas if you look at our potential squad, most of those players either won the championship or were one of the best players in it.

I agree with the point that there are decent squads with PL experience struggling in the championship, but that always happens. What you need is knowledge of how to play in this league, a brilliant keepers, tight defence, a box to box midfield and strong strikers. I don't think Bolton have all those, but Reading definitely will!

Perhaps I'm overrating them a tad but when I looked at that lineup, especially back in August I felt that was a very strong team, especially with proven Championship performers like Sordell, Mills and Pratley starting on the bench.

But of the requirements you've listed I think that team has them, or had it on paper. Bogdan, very good keeper, tight defence, Knight and Mills both have good experience and Mills has shown he can perform in the right team. Ricketts and Mears have both been promoted with Hull and Derby. Spearing might not be Liverpool standard but he's shown about as much as Karacan has and probably more while Andrews and Pratley are both proven with recent experience at that level. Davies leads the line well, Sordell scored as many goals for Watford as Hunt, Roberts & Le Fondre got for us last year too.

My point here is that I don't think you can look at the Reading lineup you've suggested and just assume they'll revert back to being good championship players. McAnuff and Leigertwood aren't getting any younger, there are question marks over just about all of our full-backs and there's no guarantee you'd be able to hold on to the likes of Federici, McCarthy, Mariappa or Le Fondre.

As another poster said, obviously we'd expect to strengthen and that's where I'd have to really look at things to decide if we're title contenders because I just think there would be far too many question marks to make that proposed lineup a shoe in.

[Ian Royal]

I don't see us losing many players over the summer and I think we'd have a very strong Champ team again. We're still in the fight to stay up, unlikely to succeed as it realistically looks at this moment in time.

[maffff]

I don't rate Afobe.