Where was Guthrie again?!

[ZacNaloen]

Disagree, he's at his worst in the attacking midfield role.he's a quarter back. Good passer, but its the penultimate pass before the chance. Or the possession keeping pass.


He's the Brian Howard to leigertwoods Jay tabb.


oxf*rd our tactics are awful these days.

[Ian Royal]

JMW our performances and results improved with him in the side. He's the only midfielder we have capable of really playing a passing game. He's not an attacking midfielder but if anyone would show the slightest bit of movement he'd make a difference to us because we'd have more chance of actually keeping hold of the ball.

He's not a saviour by any means but he's a step in the right direction and lends something to the team that we're desperate for. I seem to recall plenty of people raving about a few of his performances post Christmas, so it's amazing how you've never seen him do anything good. I guess you see what you want to see.

[John Madejski's Wallet]

Disagree, he's at his worst in the attacking midfield role.he's a quarter back. Good passer, but its the penultimate pass before the chance. Or the possession keeping pass.


He's the Brian Howard to leigertwoods Jay tabb.


oxf*rd our tactics are awful these days.

He wants to be our quarterback, but in a game of soccer they're a tad pointless. Someone needs to tell him that. Hence why I found it annoying when he was dropping deeper than the out-and-out DM

I only say he's seemed better when he has (rarely) been further up field, only because his lack of effort and defensive ability isnt as costly. That and it was nice to see someone try and pass the ball up there.

[Ian Royal]

Disagree, he's at his worst in the attacking midfield role.he's a quarter back. Good passer, but its the penultimate pass before the chance. Or the possession keeping pass.


He's the Brian Howard to leigertwoods Jay tabb.


oxf*rd our tactics are awful these days.

He wants to be our quarterback, but in a game of soccer they're a tad pointless. Someone needs to tell him that. Hence why I found it annoying when he was dropping deeper than the out-and-out DM

I only say he's seemed better when he has (rarely) been further up field, only because his lack of effort and defensive ability isnt as costly. That and it was nice to see someone try and pass the ball up there.

Our best team ever had a player who performed the role of keeping possession and keeping the ball moving. And what you get without it, is the shit we serve up weakly (sic).

[ZacNaloen]

Quarter backs are essential to playing modern successful football.

[John Madejski's Wallet]

JMW our performances and results improved with him in the side. He's the only midfielder we have capable of really playing a passing game. He's not an attacking midfielder but if anyone would show the slightest bit of movement he'd make a difference to us because we'd have more chance of actually keeping hold of the ball.

He's not a saviour by any means but he's a step in the right direction and lends something to the team that we're desperate for. I seem to recall plenty of people raving about a few of his performances post Christmas, so it's amazing how you've never seen him do anything good. I guess you see what you want to see.

Hold my hands up tbf, there was a couple of games (when he was upfield more) that I thought he was ok.

I do even recall turning to my mate and saying he was playing well. I also recall saying that if only someone could read some of his passes, it would really change the team. But then I recall saying the exact same thing about Matejovsky


Hence I think my point in all of this is that Guthrie himself does not (and cannot) change the team. It is a formation/tactic/balance issue and that is down to BM. That, and the fact that the rest of players aren't any good at passing/moving/keeping the ball, so it all becomes pointless. Just slamming Guthrie in will make no difference at all. I'm just getting annoyed at the bitching so i'm reserving the right to have one myself

[John Madejski's Wallet]

Quarter backs are essential to playing modern successful football.

In what formation?
And with what players?

Can't you think up a better term than Quarter Back please?

[John Madejski's Wallet]

Quarter backs are essential to playing modern successful football.

.... and a decent team of players around them is the key to being able to afford the luxury of a Quarter Back (or whatever). Without out that they're like a chocolate f*cking fire guard


Hatrick

[John Madejski's Wallet]

And for the 4 ...... I do actually think he should be in the team.

Its start or nothing for me

[ZacNaloen]

From somewhere you seem to have got the idea that mstejovsky and Guthrie are similar players and therefore have the same weaknesses.

This is a crock of shit.

Marek was an attacking midfielder who should be playing behind a striker who was asked t8o play too deep. Guthrie is a passing midfielder who does his best work keeping the ball moving and more importantly in your possession in front of defenders next to a tackling midfielder.

We make the same mistake every time the club seems to try and bring technical players here in that we ridiculously try to play those players in a way that doesn't befit technical football and in positions that make exactly the worst use of their strengths.

[ZacNaloen]

In fact McDermott made the exact opposite mistake with Guthrie than Coppell did with matejovsky (aside us playing in a manner unsuited to either of them, that was the same mistake.)

It's like we don't scout at all.

[Still Hate Futcher!]

Who f*cking cares where he was.

Yes, he's had little opportunity, but he adds nothing to this team, and his extra powder puffness (even compared to our powderpuff midfield) just leaves us more exposed

He hasn't done a single thing when he has played that has even made me raise my eyebrows. Not a pass, not a cross, not a run, not a shot, not a tackle.

+1. I'm sick of hearing all this crap about Guthrie. The likes of Leigertwood get nothing but stick from some on here but I'd rather play someone who's not Prem standard, yet was a key player last season and has always given his all, than Guthrie who offers no more and clearly has an attitude.

We all make mistakes by I'm in no hurry to forget that Sunderland nonsense.

[John Madejski's Wallet]

From somewhere you seem to have got the idea that mstejovsky and Guthrie are similar players and therefore have the same weaknesses.

This is a crock of shit.

.

Not really, because by "their" weaknesses, you mean "the team's" weaknesses, surely.

Just because they play in slightly differnt roles doesnt mean some of the problems aren't the same. When Guthrie had his ok patch, there were a number of passes that would have been good, had someone else read them (ala Marek).

Everyone is spanking off about him due to his apparent ability to pick a pass, but you sound like this shouldnt be his job and it should just be a very simple give-and-go ball from defence to midfield..... we can't afford someone who only offers that

.... i'll repeat that I actually thought he was ok further up the pitch, where he was able to lay off the ball to the wingers etc. in a slightly more attacking position

[ZacNaloen]

Thats actually exactly what we need. We cannot keep possession of the football and win games consistently if we all do is lump it up the field. With Guthrie on the pitch everyone was less inclined to do this. With out Guthrie of the pitch in the 451 we just play the same shit long ball foot ball except with only 1 striker instead of two.

Its not a luxury position having a give and go midfielder, it's an essential part of making 451 work.

[John Madejski's Wallet]

Thats actually exactly what we need. We cannot keep possession of the football and win games consistently if we all do is lump it up the field. With Guthrie on the pitch everyone was less inclined to do this. With out Guthrie of the pitch in the 451 we just play the same shit long ball foot ball except with only 1 striker instead of two.

Its not a luxury position having a give and go midfielder, it's an essential part of making 451 work.

Not when he's played with two DM's alongside him though. There's too big a gap upfront

All the give-and-go in the world means f*ck all if eventually Pearce will launch it upfield (which is the kind of thing that still happened when Guthrie sat deep)


....... we don't have the attacking midfielder for Guthrie to give it to. ........ though imo Kebe could do a job there as he likes the ball to feet


And fwiw, a lot of the problem is our fans. That Wigan game was a prime example, There was a passage of play where we were passing it really quite confortably acroos the back/DM and the crowd started getting the arse and shouting "forward", until eventually Morrison hoofed it. We get the style of football our fans deserve, and no single give-and-go player in a team of hoofers will change that

Our crowd boo when the ball goes back to the keeper ffs

[ZacNaloen]

Our fans are a problem they haven't got nearly enough patience.

I don't claim to any answers. All I know is that what we are doing now is completely wrong. I know we can't play him with two defensive midfielders next to him, which is why I've spent forever advocating a change of shape. I don't even think he should be playing directly in front of the defenders, that's actually where Leigertwood should be (and where had his best game this season). He should I think be in midfield next to Akpan, they should be playing off each other, creating space, finding the forwards (of whom I personally think we should be playing three not four, we rely too much on wing play as well)

There's nothing wrong with a long ball if the opposition are pressing you very high because you are passing it around well (in fact that's probably the right move, by that fact they have to have a lot of players pressing high to have caused a problem). But there is no reason for that ball to be a high ball that takes forever to come down when a ball into space and at chest level and below will suffice.

It's not about having an attacking midfielder for Guthrie to give it too, there is no magic player we can buy that will make all our problems go away. The problem is the system. Have you watched our academy play? It's a similar formation but a completely different approach to the game. And much more entertaining as well (even if they have been frustrating in the cup games)


Anyway, to cut this off because i could on forever, we need a radical rethink of how we coach and approach football matches in the first team.

[John Madejski's Wallet]

I agree about stopping the out and out wingplay tbf.

I think as time goes on, Kebe prefers the flexibility of coming inside more, and Jobi is naturally cutting in (and arguably turning into an ok AM).

[ZacNaloen]

I just feel like we are playing a style of football that is going the way of the dinosaurs (and with good reason). It's a feeling that's been creeping up on me for years. We've tried to adapt to it several times but we always pull back. You can see the change happening even in the championship now, it's seeping from the top down, everyones moving towards a possession game. We need to adapt and quickly. Tactically we are naive and old fashioned.

[John Madejski's Wallet]

I just feel like we are playing a style of football that is going the way of the dinosaurs (and with good reason). It's a feeling that's been creeping up on me for years. We've tried to adapt to it several times but we always pull back. You can see the change happening even in the championship now, it's seeping from the top down, everyones moving towards a possession game. We need to adapt and quickly. Tactically we are naive and old fashioned.

True
However, two teams playing possession football = dull, dull football

[ZacNaloen]

Which is why you gotta be able to mix it up.

You can tell that football is generally run by not particularly bright people. Too many times you a manager trying possession football but the teams never get anywhere


The best football is played by Tottenham in this league at the moment, in my opinion. They've got the balance between possession,defense and attack as close to spot on you can. and arent afraid of a long ball in the channels when it calls for it.

That used to be Arsenal, but Wenger can't buy defenders so their balance is way off.

But the similarities between those two teams are that they play a passing game, but they are always passing with the AIM to get towards the opposition goal and press the opposition defenders.

Too many managers play possession football in their own half.

Exciting possession football would constantly moving forwards, played close to each other, playing off each others shoulder. Two teams doing that would be exciting, and it would be end to end.