Leigertwood

[RoyallyFcuked]

It is true that he was brilliant for us the last two seasons, no one can argue with that. As we know, he is not a Premier League player but I have still found it a little disappointing, that he hasnt upped his game abit and if anything, he has got alot worse. Most of what he does it defensively, but it seems to me as though he makes even less attacking contribution than before, and when he does it is often just not good enough. This is partly because the standard is much higher, but he should be working on the things he isnt so good at and improving his game so he can compete better at this level. And its not only him, same goes for a few of the other players. That was half the problem with McDs management style, he doesnt try and improve a players attributes or expand his teams tactics, just wants everyone doing the basics and hoping for the best.

[Albert Spangler]

I thought I'd take a moment to defend last year's hero. I'll start by saying I do not believe he's a Premiership quality player. I understand why QPR moved him on. He doesn't have the cool head or the ball skills to be a successful top flight regular. Having said that, that's only part of the equation. For Reading, you have to ask who should replace him and I think we'd be worse off without him in the team. One constant of watching Reading over the last decade or so is the way we've let the opposition roam around in front of our back four with impunity. It was what made watching Steve Coppell's teams other than 05-06 and 06-07 a bit of a nightmare, but it hadn't gone away until we brought in Leigertwood. I believe a big reason why we're not statistically dead and buried yet (whatever your belief about our real prospects) is his contribution to our defence, basically doing what he's good at and patrolling the third quarter and breaking up play. We look less exposed in his area of responsibility than we've done in years. If we dropped him, i think we'd get regularly raped instead of just comfortably beaten, and I'll take a comfortable beating over a rape any day. I take it Carrico was brought in to do the same job while having the ball skills and head to play in the Premiership. Unfortunately, he couldn't fulfill the first of these roles. The people who've settled on Leigertwood and McAnuff as their scape goats fail to see that all of our players are constantly under massive pressure given the weakness of the whole and that no one is really more culpable than anyone else. Both those players have continued to do things that have been very important in keeping us in with a prayer of survival. Instead of picking out overstretched individuals from our inadequate set-up, the point is how does the whole have to change for us to compete at this level.

Here endeth the lesson.

This post could easily have been written by me. Although a) I can't be bothered and 2) my spelling, punctuation and paragraphing would be far superior.

Otherwise, perfick.

[glass half full]

a and b or 1 and 2?

[Hootus McFurby]

I thought I'd take a moment to defend last year's hero. I'll start by saying I do not believe he's a Premiership quality player. I understand why QPR moved him on. He doesn't have the cool head or the ball skills to be a successful top flight regular.

Which is kind of the point, He was a significant contributor to QPR's promotion but became surplus to requirements once they got to the Premier League as he is nowhere near up to the required standard

Having said that, that's only part of the equation. For Reading, you have to ask who should replace him and I think we'd be worse off without him in the team.

Not sure that I agree we would be worse off but frankly I haven't seen any of our other central midfielders make the step up to this level either.

One constant of watching Reading over the last decade or so is the way we've let the opposition roam around in front of our back four with impunity. It was what made watching Steve Coppell's teams other than 05-06 and 06-07 a bit of a nightmare, but it hadn't gone away until we brought in Leigertwood.

Agreed if we are talking about last season in the Championship, but this year watching the opposition 'roaming around in front of our back four with impunity' has been the story of the season. Not entirely Leigertwood's fault but if breaking up attacking play is the reason that he is an ever present in the team, then he has failed badly. Case in point being the home game against Tottenham where I was worried about the threat on the wings from the likes of Bale and Lennon when on the day they simply ran straight through the centre of the pitch again and again. Defoe's second goal being a prime example.

I believe a big reason why we're not statistically dead and buried yet (whatever your belief about our real prospects) is his contribution to our defence, basically doing what he's good at and patrolling the third quarter and breaking up play. We look less exposed in his area of responsibility than we've done in years. If we dropped him, i think we'd get regularly raped instead of just comfortably beaten, and I'll take a comfortable beating over a rape any day.

Losing is losing, does it matter how? As for breaking up play see my previous point.

I take it Carrico was brought in to do the same job while having the ball skills and head to play in the Premiership. Unfortunately, he couldn't fulfill the first of these roles.

Carrico strikes me as a bit like Emerse Fae, brought in to a great fanfare but then we never saw him play. I think it is a bit harsh to say that he has failed to fulfil his role when he hasn't really ever had a chance.

The people who've settled on Leigertwood and McAnuff as their scape goats fail to see that all of our players are constantly under massive pressure given the weakness of the whole and that no one is really more culpable than anyone else. Both those players have continued to do things that have been very important in keeping us in with a prayer of survival. Instead of picking out overstretched individuals from our inadequate set-up, the point is how does the whole have to change for us to compete at this level.

I agree that it is pointless to scapegoat certain players when the reality is that none of our current squad is really good enough for the Premier League. I think that people have been frustrated by the fact that Leigertwood and McAnuff seem to start every game regardless of their form and are never substituted regardless of their performance on the pitch. This to me is the reason that some fans seem to have had enough of them, more the fault of the manager than the players but of course BM has gone now anyway.

Here endeth the lesson.

Amen brother

[Millsy]

Today did a fantastic job at least once when he seemed to win the ball of three Opposition players (the oriental chap and a couple if others around him) and do something with it I think. Really stifled that attack.

I've often wondered what would happen without him in th team. Would we leak more goals?

[LightwaterRoyal]

Today did a fantastic job at least once when he seemed to win the ball of three Opposition players (the oriental chap and a couple if others around him) and do something with it I think. Really stifled that attack.

I've often wondered what would happen without him in the team. Would we leak more goals?

He has been our most important player ever since we signed him, he has his weaknesses but against United he really played to his strengths.Won the ball back and then kept it well and didnt panic in possession, defenders didnt hoof it too much which helped.

[Hampshire Royal]

I've never thought that Leigertwood is a bad player. Sure, he's made mistakes and had bad games, but I can't think of a player at any level who hasn't.

It is so easy for people (particularly on HNA?) to make scapegoats out of people (is it just me, but are the majority of scapegoats on HNA? black?), and as soon as this idea takes root it is very difficult to get rid of.

[LightwaterRoyal]

I've never thought that Leigertwood is a bad player. Sure, he's made mistakes and had bad games, but I can't think of a player at any level who hasn't.

It is so easy for people (particularly on HNA?) to make scapegoats out of people (is it just me, but are the majority of scapegoats on HNA? black?), and as soon as this idea takes root it is very difficult to get rid of.

Pog, Gorkss, Gunter, Guthrie, Pearce, Federici, Harte, Church are just a few recent ones. All white so no.

[melonhead]

I've never thought that Leigertwood is a bad player. Sure, he's made mistakes and had bad games, but I can't think of a player at any level who hasn't.

It is so easy for people (particularly on HNA?) to make scapegoats out of people (is it just me, but are the majority of scapegoats on HNA? black?), and as soon as this idea takes root it is very difficult to get rid of.

Pog, Gorkss, Gunter, Guthrie, Pearce, Federici, Harte, Church are just a few recent ones. All white so no.

never realy scapegoated publicly during games though

only the black players get that

[melonhead]

Today did a fantastic job at least once when he seemed to win the ball of three Opposition players (the oriental chap and a couple if others around him) and do something with it I think. Really stifled that attack.

I've often wondered what would happen without him in the team. Would we leak more goals?

He has been our most important player ever since we signed him, he has his weaknesses but against United he really played to his strengths.Won the ball back and then kept it well and didnt panic in possession, defenders didnt hoof it too much which helped.

done this most of the season tbf
its just that sometimes its impossible to do it for 100% of every game.
and he can do it as much as he likes, it only takes a couple of mistakes, and thats what all the mongs remember

[Binfield Royal]

Last season, I bumped into an ex QPR player i know who is now a scout for them. He was there, ostensibly, to watch Kebe (this with them in the PL and us in the Champ and was before we knew about Anton).

We talked about Kebe (he concluded he was good but not better than anyone they already had) and also about Leighterwood. He summed up Leighterwood like this:

"He can have a blinder of a game for you - 9 out of ten, and then the next two or three games will be 3 out of ten. He never consistantly has a 7 or 8 out of ten which is what you need from your starting players".

I think this is spot on. Leighterwood had a much better game against United but he was F*cking woeful against Villa and Wigan. Why he appears to lack consistancy is a mystery to me but Brian must have known this about him yet still picked him every week, regardless of how he played in the previous game.

Under Brian, he was undroppable and he doesn't deserve that status based on his performaces in the PL.

Those defending him based on his (undoubtably great) performances last year in the Champ need to bear in mind that football (especially the PL) is like evolution by natural selection and you can't rest on your laurels.

The reason Brian has gone is his failure to adapt to his (and the teams) new environment.

Here endeth the (alternate view) lesson...

[melonhead]

Under Brian, he was undroppable and he doesn't deserve that status based on his performaces in the PL.

this depends on the other available options

with ledge i think its much more like regular 6-7 out of tens, and as many 9s as 3,4,5s

[Hampshire Royal]

I've never thought that Leigertwood is a bad player. Sure, he's made mistakes and had bad games, but I can't think of a player at any level who hasn't.

It is so easy for people (particularly on HNA?) to make scapegoats out of people (is it just me, but are the majority of scapegoats on HNA? black?), and as soon as this idea takes root it is very difficult to get rid of.

Pog, Gorkss, Gunter, Guthrie, Pearce, Federici, Harte, Church are just a few recent ones. All white so no.

Pog, Gorkss and Federici are all foreign.
Guthrie is Northern.
Pearce, Harte and Church are not English, or have chosen to play for foreign teams.
Gunter - with a name like that he has to be German, or at least he does have a silly name.

OK, not black, but all seem to have been singled out for not being pure Suvvern

[bcubed]

to those who would drop Leigertwood, take a look at our tackle stats
I cant be bothered (or dont know where to look now) but have produced them before and he leads the way in most games
Without him we would be under even more pressure (if thats possible!)

He might not be great but we have noone better

[Royalclapper]

He's not an awful player, it's just that he's not PL quality and probably more of a solid Champ midfielder (nothing wrong with that of course). Which pretty much sums up the limitations of the side. To say he has been ok for us this season is reinforcing exactly why we are facing relegation - good performer last season though, which is just about where we are and he's currently at in terms of level.

[ManchesterRoyals]

Probably be ok in the Chump

Even a 34 year old Ferdinand strolled past him for Uniteds goal on sat, so not good enough for the PL, but we already knew that didnt we

[melonhead]

He's not an awful player, it's just that he's not PL quality and probably more of a solid Champ midfielder (nothing wrong with that of course). Which pretty much sums up the limitations of the side. To say he has been ok for us this season is reinforcing exactly why we are facing relegation - good performer last season though, which is just about where we are and he's currently at in terms of level.

agreed totally
but, this does not equal a player who deserves boo's and abuse

[Tommy Youlden's Ears]

He's not an awful player, it's just that he's not PL quality and probably more of a solid Champ midfielder (nothing wrong with that of course). Which pretty much sums up the limitations of the side. To say he has been ok for us this season is reinforcing exactly why we are facing relegation - good performer last season though, which is just about where we are and he's currently at in terms of level.

agreed totally
but, this does not equal a player who deserves boo's and abuse

This. Never boo a player who tries his best.

[P!ssed Off]

I've never thought that Leigertwood is a bad player. Sure, he's made mistakes and had bad games, but I can't think of a player at any level who hasn't.

It is so easy for people (particularly on HNA?) to make scapegoats out of people (is it just me, but are the majority of scapegoats on HNA? black?), and as soon as this idea takes root it is very difficult to get rid of.

Pog, Gorkss, Gunter, Guthrie, Pearce, Federici, Harte, Church are just a few recent ones. All white so no.

Pog, Gorkss and Federici are all foreign.
Guthrie is Northern.
Pearce, Harte and Church are not English, or have chosen to play for foreign teams.
Gunter - with a name like that he has to be German, or at least he does have a silly name.

OK, not black, but all seem to have been singled out for not being pure Suvvern

The fact that you believe Gunter to be German shows your complete lack of knowledge about Reading.
Are you just trolling with your accusations of racism or are you truly that thick?
Your concept of "pure Suvvern" equates to essentially only three Reading players: Shorey, Morrison and McCarthy. Are you seriously suggesting that criticism of any player apart from these ones is due to fans being racist?

You've been on this forum for 9 years now so presumably you are not a child but seriously, grow up!

[Royal With Cheese]

The fact that you believe Gunter to be German shows your complete lack of knowledge about Reading.
Are you just trolling with your accusations of racism or are you truly that thick?
Your concept of "pure Suvvern" equates to essentially only three Reading players: Shorey, Morrison and McCarthy. Are you seriously suggesting that criticism of any player apart from these ones is due to fans being racist?

You've been on this forum for 9 years now so presumably you are not a child but seriously, grow up!

Oh P!ssed Off - stick around, that one of the more reasoned posts on Hob Nob nowadays.