BFTG - The Goon Show

[sandman]

More of a reference to the fact that Arsenal can attest to his "superior passing skills" by the way he gave them the ball for the third goal than his fairly anonymous overall performance.

[leon]

tbf when you are there to pass the ball you'll always make a misplaced pass, no matter who you are. At this level you will get punished. But it's his overall contribution that worries me. He spent a lot of the game pointing to his team mates and telling them what to do, only to do very little with the ball when he had it, and utterly nothing when he didn't have it. We don't need prima donnas.

[Millsy]

Relax guys....As per usual I think we're all going into a self flagellating tail spin here.

We don't need to replace the entire team and we don't need to completely change the way we play, we just need a bit more focus on certain aspects of the game. ie a more passing and retaining game. We have a pretty good (actually if we retain most of it, an excellent) spine of a team to compete for promotion next year, and as a club we'll have learnt (the hard way) about what is needed to compete at PL level.

Good post.

[sandman]

tbf when you are there to pass the ball you'll always make a misplaced pass, no matter who you are. At this level you will get punished. But it's his overall contribution that worries me. He spent a lot of the game pointing to his team mates and telling them what to do, only to do very little with the ball when he had it, and utterly nothing when he didn't have it. We don't need prima donnas.

Normally I would agree about misplaced passes happening but this was from a short corner. Open play you could understand but from your own corner? Sorry but that's just sloppy.

[leon]

well, it's Easter and I'm trying to be nice.

He did move the ball well on a couple of occaisons, and put a (one) tackle in, but we need more.

[Avon Royal]

we'll have learnt (the hard way) about what is needed to compete at PL level.

It was hardly rocket science - some of us were warning that major surgery would be required even before promotion was secured last season.

It was the unbelievable arrogance of the "Reading Way" that did for us in the Premier League.

[ZacNaloen]

tbf when you are there to pass the ball you'll always make a misplaced pass, no matter who you are. At this level you will get punished. But it's his overall contribution that worries me. He spent a lot of the game pointing to his team mates and telling them what to do, only to do very little with the ball when he had it, and utterly nothing when he didn't have it. We don't need prima donnas.

Normally I would agree about misplaced passes happening but this was from a short corner. Open play you could understand but from your own corner? Sorry but that's just sloppy.

It wasn't "from" a short corner.

The corner part was fine, the problem was that later in the move Shorey looked like he was showing for a lay off, Guthrie decided to play it into space and Shorey wanted it to feet. It was lack of communication.

[loyalroyal4life]

Legs has played his last game he was a liability again one pass to arsenal that springs to mind was his blind back heal

He is immune, will be there for the next game!! Can't wait

[Allyh84]

Christ, we are doomed.

The goal where Guthrie lost it was hilarious. We just don't know how on earth to attack and that showed it to a tee. Southampton must think they've got a stroll in the park this Saturday.

[JordCot]

The only thing I hope from now until the rest of the season is that we use these games to integrate some new tactics so that we can then smash West Ham on our way down

[Sanguine]

A 451 where Guthrie is expected to do the work of the TWO defensive midfielders. Brilliant.

[Ian Royal]

tbf when you are there to pass the ball you'll always make a misplaced pass, no matter who you are. At this level you will get punished. But Hi ange. Nick says you're ok to give me a lift to the quiz, is that ok? You're brilz skilz if you are. Do you want me to meet you at the library at 7? it's his overall contribution that worries me. He spent a lot of the game pointing to his team mates and telling them what to do, only to do very little with the ball when he had it, and utterly nothing when he didn't have it. We don't need prima donnas.

I don't buy the strawman that those who like him paint him as 'our saviour' nonsense from his knockers because that's not what anyone worth listening to is saying. But even the best passer in the world will struggle to do much with the ball if his team mates don't show for him. And our movement has been dire this season.

He's not been great, but then the tactics and his teammates haven't exactly helped him to be influential. Obviously he has to take resposibility as well. The point is he's a step in the right direction even if he's the wrong player or not done well enough. Arteta would look mediocre in our team.

[P!ssed Off]

I don't know how sandman, Ideal and the rest can claim other fans are obsessed with Guthrie, they seem to be the ones posting about him 24/7. Nobody claims Guthrie is the messiah, but he's certainly not the devil as you guys seem to think.

The fact is, when he wasn't in the team the central midfield was consistently shit. Therefore, people said "give Guthrie a go, he might be slightly less shit". That really is the extent of it, nothing to get so worked up and irate about.

[friday fan]

I wouldn't just blame Guthrie, the marking or lack of it for their third goal was non existent, their second goal could also have been prevented but sometimes our defenders just stand off too much. Even if the first goal had a hint of offside, playing that far deep and relying on offside is too dangerous even when officials can't get the blatant offsides right. In the end we lack quality and should hope for a huge clearout in the summer without being sentimental.

[sandman]

Fine, won't say another thing about the mouthy, unprofessional, little primadonna.

Done!

[Hoop Blah]

I wish I was more surprised at the amount of rubbish being posted here about Guthrie/Shorey combining to lose possession 100 yards from goal being Guthrie setting up a tap in for Arsenal!

He also played an important pass to put McAnuff free to set up the goal. He also worked pretty hard in a ineffectual midfield that still, along with our back four, spends far too much time marking space and dropping deeper and deeper instead of closing teams down and stopping the opposition play.

Guthrie isn't the answer to everything we've got wrong this season and I've not read anyone say he is. He is a player that can perform reasonably well at this level in the right midfield, we've never put that right midfield together though and he's suffered perhaps more than others because of it.

[Millsy]

I don't know how sandman, Ideal and the rest can claim other fans are obsessed with Guthrie, they seem to be the ones posting about him 24/7. Nobody claims Guthrie is the messiah, but he's certainly not the devil as you guys seem to think.

The fact is, when he wasn't in the team the central midfield was consistently shit. Therefore, people said "give Guthrie a go, he might be slightly less shit". That really is the extent of it, nothing to get so worked up and irate about.

That would be spot on if they were talking about someone like Karacan or Tabb or whoever else. Someone relatively modest, on relatively modest wages who just gets on does their job and plays of they're picked and doesn't if they're not.

The trouble is we're talking about a mouthy little so and so likely (I'm guessing) to be on significant wages, who believes he's better than all our other midfielders, has a divine right to play, has a strop and doesn't turn up to games that he's not starting in ( then blames his wife's SPD, stupid excuse, the second time) and has destroyed any team spirit as a result. THis attitude continued even after he was regularly picked by saying something like "well it's no surprise that as soon as I start playing we start doing well" for all to hear on BBC Radio Berkshire. If that's what he constantly chugging out, picked or not, imagine what he's doing to the dressing room.

This little oik really believes he's the bee's knees and is letting everyone know it at every opportunity whether he plays or not, either verbally or with stupid actions not turning up to games.

HE is obsessed with HIMSELF and leaves us no choice but to be respond. If he claims he's so frikking good then he has to be able to perform or it's only natural that we will comment on him.

He has brought this on himself. Don't make this out like a few obsessed people have decided to talk about him for no reason.

I sit on the fence on this btw. I think he's a dick, but I think he's a good player. Not amazing, just good. I can see both sides of the argument, but the argument has been brought on by him, and deserves to be had.

[Royal91]

I don't buy all this 'he's arrogant' talk from everyone.

He joined READING for god sake we're hardly world beaters. Its a very modest move to join Reading in my book. He was offered a new contract by Newcastle and the fans liked him up there.

We all know Reading buy players based on their CHARACTER and PERSONALITY and listening to his interviews I believe he sounds genuine.

People are still failing to see he is not an attacking midfielder. He does not have the mobility to support the striker or run beyond the striker. He needs to see the game in front of him.

I'll probably get grilled for this analogy as you will probably think I'm comparing player abilities. Imagine Carrick in an attacking mid role for UTD it would be ridiculous.

He was never going to be a player that gets the crowd excited because he's not that player. He plays a very simple game of ticking things over in front of the back four. He will be relatively ineffective when players are not moving around.

I'm not defending his move to not play against Sunderland because that poor judgement.

What annoys me is people calling him shit because he doesn't run around like a headless chicken. As someone else pointed out if he is playing CAM why the oxf*rd would he get back to defend.

For me it should be Akpan in the CAM role, he looks like someone who can drive with ball. With Guthrie and one other in front of the back four!

[P!ssed Off]

I don't know how sandman, Ideal and the rest can claim other fans are obsessed with Guthrie, they seem to be the ones posting about him 24/7. Nobody claims Guthrie is the messiah, but he's certainly not the devil as you guys seem to think.

The fact is, when he wasn't in the team the central midfield was consistently shit. Therefore, people said "give Guthrie a go, he might be slightly less shit". That really is the extent of it, nothing to get so worked up and irate about.

That would be spot on if they were talking about someone like Karacan or Tabb or whoever else. Someone relatively modest, on relatively modest wages who just gets on does their job and plays of they're picked and doesn't if they're not.

The trouble is we're talking about a mouthy little so and so likely (I'm guessing) to be on significant wages, who believes he's better than all our other midfielders, has a divine right to play, has a strop and doesn't turn up to games that he's not starting in ( then blames his wife's SPD, stupid excuse, the second time) and has destroyed any team spirit as a result. THis attitude continued even after he was regularly picked by saying something like "well it's no surprise that as soon as I start playing we start doing well" for all to hear on BBC Radio Berkshire. If that's what he constantly chugging out, picked or not, imagine what he's doing to the dressing room.

This little oik really believes he's the bee's knees and is letting everyone know it at every opportunity whether he plays or not, either verbally or with stupid actions not turning up to games.

HE is obsessed with HIMSELF and leaves us no choice but to be respond. If he claims he's so frikking good then he has to be able to perform or it's only natural that we will comment on him.

He has brought this on himself. Don't make this out like a few obsessed people have decided to talk about him for no reason.

I sit on the fence on this btw. I think he's a dick, but I think he's a good player. Not amazing, just good. I can see both sides of the argument, but the argument has been brought on by him, and deserves to be had.

Normally, I would agree with you. In previous years we have had great team morale and a character such as Guthrie may well have been a threat to this. However, this season the team morale and man management has been a complete joke.

McDermott had busts up, (some real, some just rumoured) with numerous members of the squad. Also fringe players, such as Le Fondre and McCleary have spoken many times to the media about 1st team football, it was not just Guthrie. To blame Guthrie alone for the behaviour of the whole squad is unrealistic; was Guthrie's attitude to blame for the early season bust up with Federici and McDermott as well?
McDermott's favouritism of certain players was blatantly obvious, it pissed off many fans so it's unsurprising that it pissed off players.

Obviously Guthrie should have traveled to Sunderland, but if anybody truly thinks that him refusing to do so was the significant moment in our season then they were not watching very closely.
How about Pogrebynak's indiscipline forcing us to play almost half a match with ten men against Wigan, followed by a three match ban. Was this less destructive than Guthrie deciding not to sit on the bench?

It's been a shite season, if you want to blame people there are plenty more deserving targets than Guthrie. Even if you do think Guthrie is a pariah, chances are he'll be off in the summer, so seriously don't worry about it

[leon]

A 451 where Guthrie is expected to do the work of the TWO defensive midfielders. Brilliant.

Guthrie is expected to do his job. Some of that will be defensive, most of it will be creative - when I've seen him I'm not sure he's done either.