SJM - Minutes silence vs Liverpool

[Anfield Kopite]

Kes, it would take me another 5 or 6 long winded posts to explain what went on outside the ground. it would take you 2 mins to google the H.I.P. findings to educate yourself. Also your little story about speaking to Liverpool season ticket holder.... I unsurprisingly know lots of LFC fans. As a survivor of the central pens at Leppings Lane I have spoken to probably over 500 people who were in attendance that day. Never and I mean never, has anyone said that LFC fans were acting up either inside or outside the ground.

[Pepe the Horseman]

Guys, why don't you exchange numbers and do this over the phone or something?

[Anfield Kopite]

Guys, why don't you exchange numbers and do this over the phone or something?

Or why doesn't he put his team rivalry aside for 2 mins and do as I have said all along and read the report. An independent panel of very respected and intelligent people took over a year to read over 400,000 documents to come to the conclusion that LFC fans were innocent and an unbelievable cover up involving police forces, politicians and media outlets ensued.

[Anfield Kopite]

It was this very emotive subject that turned me from a decent human being into a thread spamming pain in the arse. R.I.P. Maggie indeed.

[Schards#2]

LOL @ Anfield Kopite taking time out from urging people to commit suicide and celebrating people's death, to try and claim the moral high ground.

[sandman]

Indeed.

and LOL at the right wing telling people what to do (again).

[retro_royal]

LOL @ the 'independent' in the independent report.

[Anfield Kopite]

LOL @ the 'independent' in the independent report.

More 'independent' than the one your team uses for F.A. charges. There were 9 people on the panel. Phil Scratton is a match going LFC fan. Read up on the other 8. The former bishop of Liverpool is neither a scouser or a football fan before you mention him.

[No Fixed Abode]

Kes, it would take me another 5 or 6 long winded posts to explain what went on outside the ground. it would take you 2 mins to google the H.I.P. findings to educate yourself. Also your little story about speaking to Liverpool season ticket holder.... I unsurprisingly know lots of LFC fans. As a survivor of the central pens at Leppings Lane I have spoken to probably over 500 people who were in attendance that day. Never and I mean never, has anyone said that LFC fans were acting up either inside or outside the ground.

AK - all I'm saying is, an excuse such as 'that's how crowds act' just doesn't wash with me. Should we excuse murderers, because that's how they act? No. You can put all the measures in place you want to, but if people are intent on doing something they will. It comes down to acting properly as individuals in a public place. You only have to commute to London everyday to see how selfish people can be, pushing and shoving and yes, I've witnessed people being injured from this. Is it Network rails fault? Like I say, there are only so many measures people can put in place. Should more have been done by the authorities that day? No question, of course. And it's a disgrace with the massive cover up by the Police and I'm sure those 400,000 documents clear Liverpool fans. But some % of the fans that day really have to take some responsibility. But just like Heysel eh, it was all the Stadium's fault. Nobody wanted anyone to die that day, but a domino effect of consequences happened.

[Anfield Kopite]

LOL @ Anfield Kopite taking time out from urging people to commit suicide and celebrating people's death, to try and claim the moral high ground.

The only death I have ever celebrated was Mrs Thatchers and she is linked to this very thread. As for Seb, well he was hardly innocent. But then he used to go out with your stepdaughter so you probably wont admit this to yourself.

[Anfield Kopite]

Kes, it would take me another 5 or 6 long winded posts to explain what went on outside the ground. it would take you 2 mins to google the H.I.P. findings to educate yourself. Also your little story about speaking to Liverpool season ticket holder.... I unsurprisingly know lots of LFC fans. As a survivor of the central pens at Leppings Lane I have spoken to probably over 500 people who were in attendance that day. Never and I mean never, has anyone said that LFC fans were acting up either inside or outside the ground.

AK - all I'm saying is, an excuse such as 'that's how crowds act' just doesn't wash with me. Should we excuse murderers, because that's how they act? No. You can put all the measures in place you want to, but if people are intent on doing something they will. It comes down to acting properly as individuals in a public place. You only have to commute to London everyday to see how selfish people can be, pushing and shoving and yes, I've witnessed people being injured from this. Is it Network rails fault? Like I say, there are only so many measures people can put in place. Should more have been done by the authorities that day? No question, of course. And it's a disgrace with the massive cover up by the Police and I'm sure those 400,000 documents clear Liverpool fans. But some % of the fans that day really have to take some responsibility. But just like Heysel eh, it was all the Stadium's fault. Nobody wanted anyone to die that day, but a domino effect of consequences happened.

Good I am glad that an excuse such as "that's how crowds act" doesn't wash because I am not making any such excuse. This is simply because the crowds did not act in any way that would lead me to use such an excuse. Read the report Kes.

[Schards#2]

LOL @ Anfield Kopite taking time out from urging people to commit suicide and celebrating people's death, to try and claim the moral high ground.

The only death I have ever celebrated was Mrs Thatchers and she is linked to this very thread. As for Seb, well he was hardly innocent. But then he used to go out with your stepdaughter so you probably wont admit this to yourself.

Just for the benefit of those who read the team board but not the Anything Else board, run by us again the reasons why you encouraged Seb to commit suicide, then people can make their own judgement on the sort of person you are.

[Anfield Kopite]

LOL @ Anfield Kopite taking time out from urging people to commit suicide and celebrating people's death, to try and claim the moral high ground.

The only death I have ever celebrated was Mrs Thatchers and she is linked to this very thread. As for Seb, well he was hardly innocent. But then he used to go out with your stepdaughter so you probably wont admit this to yourself.

Just for the benefit of those who read the team board but not the Anything Else board, run by us again the reasons why you encouraged Seb to commit suicide, then people can make their own judgement on the sort of person you are.

Mainly a horrible anti scouse campaign by pm. Nasty in the extreme. Now fuk off back to praising the witch

[Mintona]

If Liverpool fans want to disrespect one of this country's finest leaders then we should disrespect them back by singing some songs such as '96 it wasn't enough' and 'oxf*rd off with your 96'.

[MouldyRoyal]

If Liverpool fans want to disrespect one of this country's finest leaders then we should disrespect them back by singing some songs such as '96 it wasn't enough' and 'oxf*rd off with your 96'.

I'll pass thanks.

[Anfield Kopite]

If Liverpool fans want to disrespect one of this country's finest leaders then we should disrespect them back by singing some songs such as '96 it wasn't enough' and 'oxf*rd off with your 96'.

I am surprised people have not asked if this is AK in another guise like every other new poster. Its not by the way

[higher]

In ye olde Elm Park days there would have been no issue, your either on the left or the right side of the bank and that was that.

[Brig106]

Firstly, I will state that I accept the findings of the Hillsborough inquiry from last year.
Margaret Thatcher knew little about sport in general, let alone Football.
Her poor perception of football fans was largely created by hooliganism by English teams that played abroad and of course the domestic situation during the 70s and 80s The set of hooligans most notoriously responsible for this were followers of Liverpool FC. Not that hooliganism was confined to Liverpool FC of course. However, perhaps the victims of Heysel should be added to the list for Saturday’s proposed silence, as they are often conveniently forgotten, along with the Bradford Fire victims!
Were some Liverpool fans drunk at Hillsborough, well I was a football fan back then and I would almost certainly have enjoyed a pint or three for an FA cup semi final, so I suspect on balance of probability, quite a few were. Were they to blame, no - it was and always will be a tragic accident.
There were things wrong with football grounds then, in part caused by segregation and the anti hooligan barriers erected in the years leading up to the disaster. The police made mistakes and tried to cover it up, but the disaster would have happened regardless. I accept that some may have survived had certain actions been taken after a certain time following the tragedy, but not all.
My view is therefore, it is football hooligans that gave Margaret Thatcher her perception of the average follower of English teams at the time. A case of the minority ruining it for the few. So when told by the police about loutish behaviour, she accepted their point of view. As a libertarian, I abhorred the idea of ID cards for football fans and loathed Luton Town for towing the party line and banning away supporters. But to be clear, English fans were hated across Europe for their hooligan element and for Heysel in particular; it was certainly the last straw and led to English clubs being banned from European competition for years.
When I hear of football fans singing ‘’let’s have party when Margaret Thatcher is Dead’’, I am reminded of those hooligans, I looked at the ‘You tube’ rendition and many were too young to have been alive at the time of Thatcher, moronic or what? I suppose Thatcher has been blamed for the ‘self and greed’ culture, but if this is an example of ‘good old northern community’, which she allegedly destroyed, then perhaps she was on the right track after all. For the record, I live ‘up North’ and the sense of community is stronger, in my opinion, than it is ‘down South’.
A minutes silence for Thatcher on Saturday may not be a good idea, but I would suggest that I will be offended by any chanting about a dead lady from the Liverpool (or Reading*) fans and would suggest that they should be ejected for the sake of good public order. I also suggest that a minutes silence is not held for exactly the same reason.
*Reading was a conservative stronghold at the time and benefited greatly from Thatcher’s policies, so unless you were a staunch labourite at that time (of which there were very few), anything else from a Reading perspective is simply a revision of history. If you are a Liverpool fan from Reading (as per a link ‘hob nob’ to an LFC site), you really do need to get a grip of yourself, it is one thing supporting a far away team, but to somehow assimilate their culture is frankly pathetic, similar to Tony Blair’s ‘mockney’ accent. ‘What the hell, fit in if you must!
I accept the findings of the Hillsborough enquiry that there was a cover up and that the Liverpool fans were not to blame. I have always accepted that the actual victims were innocent. Therefore, on the weekend following the enquiry findings, part in recognition of being wrong with my original opinion and for the tenacity of the victim’s families, I applauded when ‘Walk on’ was played at the beginning of the Reading match; I would hope that all the ‘anti-Thatcherites’ could show a similar level of respect, because blaming Thatcher for the ills of Liverpool and Hillsborough does not take into consideration the causes of her rationale and dare I say it, the economic reality of the time. The modern Liverpool that I know is after all pretty dynamic and the ‘post Thatcher’ generation certainly have no reason to show her such vitriol!
For the record I am not pro- Thatcher, I accept that she did a lot of good and not so good things – I simply believe in not talking ill of the dead and showing a bit of respect. Most have said that politics has no place in football, so SJM is wrong to ask for the silence for a political figure. However, anyone using the ‘no politics in football’ argument and then singing about the demise of Maggie, is not only a hypocrite, but an anti social moron with a complete lack of respect for the family of a frail old lady.

[ankeny]

The only sad thing about Thatchers death is that it didn't happen forty years earlier.

[Anfield Kopite]

The really sad thing about Thatcher is that she was ever born

There. fixed it for you.
However I actually agree with a lot of Brig's post.