Best midfielder in Premier League History

[TBM]

He's certainly up there in terms of individual honours. Goals win matches though, so would place Lampard above Beckham on that basis.

What about assists for goals? - considering Beckham was usually out wide putting the crosses in......

Feel free to add Beckham's assists to his goals record - still won't match Lampard.

But how many of Lampards goals were crucial ones (ie, won a game?) - scoring the 5th in an 6-0 win is meaningless

[Big Foot]

What about assists for goals? - considering Beckham was usually out wide putting the crosses in......

Feel free to add Beckham's assists to his goals record - still won't match Lampard.

But how many of Lampards goals were crucial ones (ie, won a game?) - scoring the 5th in an 6-0 win is meaningless

Scoring a goal at 5-0 up >>>>>>>>>>>>> Not scoring, regardless of the scoreline

[Big Foot]

What about assists for goals? - considering Beckham was usually out wide putting the crosses in......

Feel free to add Beckham's assists to his goals record - still won't match Lampard.

But how many of Lampards goals were crucial ones (ie, won a game?) - scoring the 5th in an 6-0 win is meaningless

Didn't we get relegated on GD in 2008? There's no such thing as a meaningless goal

[TBM]

Ah but all you said was "Goals win matches though"

[Big Foot]

Ah but all you said was "Goals win matches though"

Yes they do, the more you score the better the chance of winning a match. Why do you win matches? To finish higher up the league - is GD taken into account in this? Yes.

[retro_royal]

According to the crazy world of Big Foot Zamora is a better fottballer than Jaap Stam.

[Big Foot]

According to the crazy world of Big Foot Zamora is a better fottballer than Jaap Stam.

On what basis?

Clean sheets are nearly as important as goals.

[YateleyRoyal]

According to the crazy world of Big Foot Zamora is a better fottballer than Jaap Stam.

He probably is a better fottballer. Nowhere near as good a footballer though.

[soggy biscuit]

The footballing world seems to think Scholes!

http://iconicnumber7.wordpress.com/2011 ... 92-quotes/

Alan Shearer: “If you ask footballers to pick out the player they most admire, so many of them will pick Paul Scholes. He can tackle, and his passing and shooting is of the highest level. He’s the most consistent and naturally gifted player we’ve had for a long, long time.”

Lol

[St. Brynjar]

He's certainly up there in terms of individual honours. Goals win matches though, so would place Lampard above Beckham on that basis.

So what you're saying is that your entire argument about individual honours doesn't matter when you find someone who has more than Lampard?

[Big Foot]

The footballing world seems to think Scholes!

http://iconicnumber7.wordpress.com/2011 ... 92-quotes/

Interesting then that Lampard has more player voted honours? Such as Fifpro nomination, PFA team of the year etc

[Big Foot]

He's certainly up there in terms of individual honours. Goals win matches though, so would place Lampard above Beckham on that basis.

So what you're saying is that your entire argument about individual honours doesn't matter when you find someone who has more than Lampard?

No - my argument is based on goals and effectiveness. Lampard has outperformed Scholes in these areas. The lazy comeback is to point at Scholes' 11 titles, which to me shows he's been part of a great team (and clearly had a significant part to play) but individual honours are worth more than team titles.

When it comes down to Lampard v whoever for individual honours, I'd look at the goals/effectiveness of the player. Lampard wins.

[Ouroboros]

When it comes down to Lampard v whoever for individual honours, I'd look at the goals/effectiveness of the player. Lampard wins.

Loving "effectiveness." So that's just who you think is better, right?

[Big Foot]

When it comes down to Lampard v whoever for individual honours, I'd look at the goals/effectiveness of the player. Lampard wins.

Loving "effectiveness." So that's just who you think is better, right?

Effectiveness = goals/assists/clean sheets. Stuff that wins matches, not quotes from other players

[Ouroboros]

When it comes down to Lampard v whoever for individual honours, I'd look at the goals/effectiveness of the player. Lampard wins.

Loving "effectiveness." So that's just who you think is better, right?

Effectiveness = goals/assists/clean sheets. Stuff that wins matches, not quotes from other players

I think it should be pretty clear that there are players - and Scholes may be one of them - whose role on the pitch isn't well-captured by looking at goals/assists/clean sheets.

That doesn't mean that what he does isn't what wins matches.

[Big Foot]

Ok, so what does he bring then? He can't tackle and doesn't offer enough protection for the back 4 but also doesn't contribute enough goals/assists to be the "attacking" midfielder of a 4-4-2/4-5-1.

I appreciate he's a top player who's done well to keep playing at the highest level for so long. However, if I was putting together a "dream team" then I'd have a midfielder in there who can tackle as well as retain the ball well - Vieria/Makelele/Essien/Keane/Pirlo etc & play them with an all action, goalscoring midfielder such as Lampard/Gerrard/Mata/Hazard.

[creative_username_1]

err.....the most successful EPL club in the last 20 years had Scholes in the side

[sandman]

The footballing world seems to think Scholes!

http://iconicnumber7.wordpress.com/2011 ... 92-quotes/

Interesting then that Lampard has more player voted honours? Such as Fifpro nomination, PFA team of the year etc

Tbf Lampard has played in international competition whereas Scholes retired from internationals in 2004 so Lampard has had more opportunity to get votes in those polls. Interesting that Chelsea fans go into Liverpool-esque apoplexy at even the mere suggestion that Lampard might not be the greatest footballer ever.

[Big Foot]

err.....the most successful EPL club in the last 20 years had Scholes in the side

Again, thanks for backing up my point. He's played in the most successful Premier League club (HATE the phrase 'EPL', are you American?) over the last 20 years, hence he's got the titles - but where are the individual honours? Why has Lampard been in more PFA Teams of the season? (As voted for by players who play them week in, week out - I thought all the players love Scholes judging by the quotes that get rehashed about him...?)

[Big Foot]

The footballing world seems to think Scholes!

http://iconicnumber7.wordpress.com/2011 ... 92-quotes/

Interesting then that Lampard has more player voted honours? Such as Fifpro nomination, PFA team of the year etc

Tbf Lampard has played in international competition whereas Scholes retired from internationals in 2004 so Lampard has had more opportunity to get votes in those polls. Interesting that Chelsea fans go into Liverpool-esque apoplexy when it's even suggested that Lampard might not be the greatest footballer ever.

Who's the Chelsea fan m8? I'm Reading through and through.

Scholes retired because of Lampard taking his place, end of.