Brian: The right decision?

[southbank1871]

Who's done that?

[Maguire]

Not obviously sarcastic enough??

No - I started off thinking you were being sarcastic but then you went on to talk about a deflected free-kick at Brighton so I assumed you were actually being serious. If you'd only written the bits I quoted then it would've been clear.

[Maguire]

Every team needs luck to win a competition. Football matches are often decided by who gets the breaks on that given day, and it stands to reason that to win more games than you lose then you'll need to have more than your fair share of luck

That doesn't "stand to reason" at all. How many games you win isn't a product of how "lucky" you are, it's a product of ability and application. Which famous sportsman was it (Gary Player perhaps?) who said "the harder I practive, the luckier I get"?

And how can the "stats" possibly, in any way, back up this idea that RFC were "luckier" than anyone else? Which stat measures "luck"? It's a totally abstract concept.

And we were "lucky" that West Ham and Saints had bad patches at the right time for us? What does this even mean? You could just as easily say they were both lucky we took a while to get going at the start of the season having sold our best players in the summer.

[creative_username_1]

Every team needs luck to win a competition. Football matches are often decided by who gets the breaks on that given day, and it stands to reason that to win more games than you lose then you'll need to have more than your fair share of luck.

That doesn't mean we were undeserving of the title, we won the most points therefore we deserved it, but just because we were deserving that doesn't mean fortune wasn't massively on our side a number of times last season.

Anyone who went to games such as Brizzle or Brighton and can seriously say that luck didn't play any part in us becoming Champions is a 'tard.

But it's largely irrelevant unless you also discuss the games when Southampton and West Ham were lucky to win or draw games in that season.

^^^^

I have no idea how you can calculate the luck element given the trillions of variables involved.

[AirRaidSiren]

ARS - your statement that "we were very lucky to win the league under him" seeks to discredit McDermott and lessen his achievements to suit your agenda. I think that is Mags's and others' issue.

That seems to be their issue all the time. Like a pack of wolves.

The problem with posters like that is they seem to always pick at people's posts and try to discredit them, because they are so right and like to undermine those that disagree with them.

I'm not discrediting McDermott's success, we were all there with him wanting to win, I'm just purely stating that not all of it was as easy as some make out. 2011-12 season we had alot of luck and I won't say otherwise.

[AirRaidSiren]

Not obviously sarcastic enough??

No - I started off thinking you were being sarcastic but then you went on to talk about a deflected free-kick at Brighton so I assumed you were actually being serious. If you'd only written the bits I quoted then it would've been clear.

More like "if only you written so I can understand"!

[ZacNaloen]

Not obviously sarcastic enough??

No - I started off thinking you were being sarcastic but then you went on to talk about a deflected free-kick at Brighton so I assumed you were actually being serious. If you'd only written the bits I quoted then it would've been clear.

I'm in far too much of a rush to bother about being clear these days.

[winchester_royal]

Every team needs luck to win a competition. Football matches are often decided by who gets the breaks on that given day, and it stands to reason that to win more games than you lose then you'll need to have more than your fair share of luck

That doesn't "stand to reason" at all. How many games you win isn't a product of how "lucky" you are, it's a product of ability and application. Which famous sportsman was it (Gary Player perhaps?) who said "the harder I practive, the luckier I get"?

And how can the "stats" possibly, in any way, back up this idea that RFC were "luckier" than anyone else? Which stat measures "luck"? It's a totally abstract concept.

And we were "lucky" that West Ham and Saints had bad patches at the right time for us? What does this even mean? You could just as easily say they were both lucky we took a while to get going at the start of the season having sold our best players in the summer.

Luck is absolutely not an 'abstract' concept

It does stand to reason, if you follow the trail of thought that most games in the Championship are often 50/50 and decided by breaks of the ball. There were few games we dominated last season, and had the breaks gone differently maybe we'd have only found ourselves in the play-offs. Obviously teams who dominate games put themselves in positions to get breaks more often, and that's where my argument that Saints/West Ham got less lucky than us lies, luck can be measured by comparing shots/possession to the final result quite easily. As you were perfectly happy to do after the Liverpool home game this season.

Saints and West Ham sold some of their best players too in the summer, so I'm not sure where you're coming from there.

[winchester_royal]

P.S. In no way is this 'anti-McD' diatribe, he did a fantastic job, but lets not pretend last season was won by a series of tactical masterclasses, he assembled a motivated squad that came together with fantastic spirit that got on a roll, a roll in which received our fair share of lucky breaks. Does this automatically make him a better manager than Adkins as some have tried to suggest? Not IMO, as it is very hard to make any sort of quantitative comparison given the variations in circumstance at any 2 clubs.

[Maguire]

Luck is absolutely not an 'abstract' concept

Err, that's exactly what it is It's an abstract noun, look in a dictionary.

If it's not an abstract concept then can you show me a pint of luck please.

[winchester_royal]

An abstract concept and an abstract noun are 2 different things.

[mumbo-jumbo]

P.S. In no way is this 'anti-McD' diatribe, he did a fantastic job, but lets not pretend last season was won by a series of tactical masterclasses, he assembled a motivated squad that came together with fantastic spirit that got on a roll, a roll in which received our fair share of lucky breaks. Does this automatically make him a better manager than Adkins as some have tried to suggest? Not IMO, as it is very hard to make any sort of quantitative comparison given the variations in circumstance at any 2 clubs.

Spot on IMO

['lista]

In keeping with the sentiment of this thread and without wishing to upset either deeply entrenched view, here is a song for Brian to be sung when he returns with Leeds United.

McDermott, Woa-ah Woa
McDermott, Woa-ah Woa

Opinion is bitterly divided as to whether...

we treated him like shite,

So now, regardless of where you stand on the subject,..

he is a dirty White.

McDermott, Woa-ah Woa
McDermott, Woa-ah Woa*


(*repeat until the end of time)

[Snowball]

We won the league - no arguing with that


But I was saying for much of the season that we were never convincing

I expect sides that win championships to have a brilliant defence and to win plenty of games 2-0, 3-0, 4-0 and a few 5's

I'm not sure I can remember a game where we thrashed the other side, whereas the season after we came
down the last time we were putting 3-4-5 on teams. That was dominance.

There were games where I thought we looked relegation fodder and yet nicked it. Bristol away for example

At home we had the 8th best attack and second best defence

Away from home we were fifth best attack and third best defence

There's nothing in those figures to suggest we should have won the league

[Maguire]

P.S. In no way is this 'anti-McD' diatribe, he did a fantastic job, but lets not pretend last season was won by a series of tactical masterclasses, he assembled a motivated squad that came together with fantastic spirit that got on a roll, a roll in which received our fair share of lucky breaks. Does this automatically make him a better manager than Adkins as some have tried to suggest? Not IMO, as it is very hard to make any sort of quantitative comparison given the variations in circumstance at any 2 clubs.

Spot on IMO

Certainly the last sentence is true.

The reason I keep coming back to this thread is because Reading fans are so fickle and ungrateful that it irks me to see them abusing a man who did such a stellar job for the football club. Taking that as your stance is weird enough, but then trying to rewrite history to demean his achievements is just bizarre. We didn't fluke the Championship. It's a 46 game season. We were the best team over 46 games. That's it.

Does in make Brian a great manager? No. But conversely last season didn't make him a dreadful one either. Or a "baldy pcunt", as some of you like to call him.

[AirRaidSiren]

P.S. In no way is this 'anti-McD' diatribe, he did a fantastic job, but lets not pretend last season was won by a series of tactical masterclasses, he assembled a motivated squad that came together with fantastic spirit that got on a roll, a roll in which received our fair share of lucky breaks. Does this automatically make him a better manager than Adkins as some have tried to suggest? Not IMO, as it is very hard to make any sort of quantitative comparison given the variations in circumstance at any 2 clubs.

Spot on IMO

Certainly the last sentence is true.

The reason I keep coming back to this thread is because Reading fans are so fickle and ungrateful that it irks me to see them abusing a man who did such a stellar job for the football club. Taking that as your stance is weird enough, but then trying to rewrite history to demean his achievements is just bizarre. We didn't fluke the Championship. It's a 46 game season. We were the best team over 46 games. That's it.

Does in make Brian a great manager? No. But conversely last season didn't make him a dreadful one either. Or a "baldy pcunt", as some of you like to call him.

I don't ever recall abusing him in this thread. What's my excuse? I'm not ungrateful or fickle, time moves on, some of you can't or won't. 3 months+ later.....seriously, who gives a shit now? My allegiance is with Adkins since he was announced, not someone who is managing one of rivals in the same league.

Hence why this thread is still blazing. Time someone killed it off, cause McDermott isn't part of the club anymore. We may as well put a Leeds United thread up and ask if they would like to partner HNA

[winchester_royal]

P.S. In no way is this 'anti-McD' diatribe, he did a fantastic job, but lets not pretend last season was won by a series of tactical masterclasses, he assembled a motivated squad that came together with fantastic spirit that got on a roll, a roll in which received our fair share of lucky breaks. Does this automatically make him a better manager than Adkins as some have tried to suggest? Not IMO, as it is very hard to make any sort of quantitative comparison given the variations in circumstance at any 2 clubs.

Spot on IMO

Does in make Brian a great manager? No. But conversely last season didn't make him a dreadful one either. Or a "baldy pcunt", as some of you like to call him.

I admire the sentiment, but very few even come close to this level of disrespect.

[Maguire]

seriously, who gives a shit now?

The number of posts you've notched on here recently would suggest that you do.

FTR I expect Adkins to do very well this coming season.

[Snowball]

I for one am not ungrateful to McDermott and will applaud him when we play Leeds

Good bloke, did well, chose a strategy which ended up working and got us up but we were
left woefully short of the kind of class required to stay in the Premiership and
that, IMO, was partly due to the squad over-ahieving and "pinching" top spot
the season before.

I think player for player, and as a team there were three teams/squads better than us
Saints, West Ham and Birmingham. Below that three there were 3-4 sides much of a muchness
(including us) and we had a decent shot at the POs, but should have been long odds for automatic.

I can't think of any game in the title season where it was "extra managerial brilliance" that won us the points. It was partly
a few brilliant crucial games from a keeper in form, other sides bottling it, a few opposition shots hitting the woodwork
and Alfie coming good as super-sub.



Surely all you have to do is realise we won at Leeds with Simon Church scoring a wonder goal to realise that it was all a dream?

[creative_username_1]

I for one am not ungrateful to McDermott and will applaud him when we play Leeds

Good bloke, did well, chose a strategy which ended up working and got us up but we were
left woefully short of the kind of class required to stay in the Premiership and
that, IMO, was partly due to the squad over-ahieving and "pinching" top spot
the season before.

I think player for player, and as a team there were three teams/squads better than us
Saints, West Ham and Birmingham. Below that three there were 3-4 sides much of a muchness
(including us) and we had a decent shot at the POs, but should have been long odds for automatic.

I can't think of any game in the title season where it was "extra managerial brilliance" that won us the points. It was partly
a few brilliant crucial games from a keeper in form, other sides bottling it, a few opposition shots hitting the woodwork
and Alfie coming good as super-sub.



Surely all you have to do is realise we won at Leeds with Simon Church scoring a wonder goal to realise that it was all a dream?

4fs