Brian: The right decision?

[Extended-Phenotype]

I don't think I've harded you a first time, to be honest brother?

[soggy biscuit]

I am very much in the 'not luck' camp. In sport, you win what you deserve to win through numerous contributing factors. Just because it is not as pleasing on the eye or because you have less possession/less shots on goal does not mean you 'deserve' to win less.

[winchester_royal]

I don't really subscribe to the general idea of luck in sport as I think it usually comes down to your ability to take luck out of the equation or to make the best of situations which in some instances people will see as luck.

I just can't agree with this, so often in sport we see instances where someone profits from a particular break or piece of good fortune. For example a hole in one in golf from a shot that would shoot 20 feet past the hole if it hadn't crashed into the flag and dropped in. Is that a better shot than one that stops stone dead 6 inches from the hole? Not IMO, even if the reward from the hole in one is greater.

Obviously the better you are/more ability you have you find more success, that's obvious and I'm not suggesting that luck is the only (or even the biggest) determinant, but often it has a big part to play. Which is why sport is so interesting, otherwise the best team/individual would always emerge victorious.

[creative_username_1]

I'm in the stronger teams should beat weaker teams but there are huge factors of randomness that come into play

[Extended-Phenotype]

For example a hole in one in golf from a shot that would shoot 20 feet past the hole if it hadn't crashed into the flag and dropped in. Is that a better shot than one that stops stone dead 6 inches from the hole? Not IMO, even if the reward from the hole in one is greater.

You could argue it was pure luck if the flag fell from a seagull's beak and landed surprisingly in the hole as he took his shot. Otherwise the flag being a permanent feature of any hole you could argue that a golfer took it into consideration, as much as any feature of a golf course which impacted on the shorter shot, when he tee'd off.

[Esteban]

People are confusing ‘luck’ with the ‘merit’.

People saw us win games we “didn’t deserve to win” according to some unfamiliar alternative winning criteria which differs to the one the competition is based on (goals) and try and define the other team having a bad day as luck, failing to appreciate that the ability a player or team shows on competition day is what a competition is trying to f/cking measure.

Sorry to disappoint, but football like most sports rewards those who play a particular way to maximise the possible return from the quality available. Playing other ways which result in less goals scored and more conceded may be all very deserving, but according to the rules will win you at best a runner-up position.

The team you put together, how you play on the day, what tactics you choose – I doubt anyone is rolling a dice to decide any of that. So slate McD’s style all you like, and even claim other teams were more deserving of the title than us because you felt they played the sport more to your liking, but f/ck off with this luck crap. We won the league through ability, not fate.

Nailed it.

[winchester_royal]

For example a hole in one in golf from a shot that would shoot 20 feet past the hole if it hadn't crashed into the flag and dropped in. Is that a better shot than one that stops stone dead 6 inches from the hole? Not IMO, even if the reward from the hole in one is greater.

You could argue it was pure luck if the flag fell from a seagull's beak and landed surprisingly in the hole as he took his shot. Otherwise the flag being a permanent feature of any hole you could argue that a golfer took it into consideration, as much as any feature of a golf course which impacted on the shorter shot, when he tee'd off.

You think any professional golfer is actually trying to hit the flag from 200 yards rather than try and get the ball to stop as close to the hole as possible?

It's my opinion that if you benefit from something you did not intend to do then that's luck.

[melonhead]

but we did intend to allow teams possession in their own halves, and score goals through quick breaks and clinical finishing.
so.......

[Extended-Phenotype]

For example a hole in one in golf from a shot that would shoot 20 feet past the hole if it hadn't crashed into the flag and dropped in. Is that a better shot than one that stops stone dead 6 inches from the hole? Not IMO, even if the reward from the hole in one is greater.

You could argue it was pure luck if the flag fell from a seagull's beak and landed surprisingly in the hole as he took his shot. Otherwise the flag being a permanent feature of any hole you could argue that a golfer took it into consideration, as much as any feature of a golf course which impacted on the shorter shot, when he tee'd off.

You think any professional golfer is actually trying to hit the flag from 200 yards rather than try and get the ball to stop as close to the hole as possible?

It's my opinion that if you benefit from something you did not intend to do then that's luck.

I’m saying any professional golfer is aiming for a general area and that hitting the flag is no more unintended than stopping just short.

If the short shooter were to place a pin on the map where he wanted his ball to end up prior to his shot, I doubt he’d pin 6 inches short. If he did, I’d suggest he re-read the rules of golf.

[Avon Royal]

We weren't lucky to win the league, we deserved to win it.

Brian wasn't unlucky to be sacked, he deserved to go.

[Maguire]

I don't really subscribe to the general idea of luck in sport as I think it usually comes down to your ability to take luck out of the equation or to make the best of situations which in some instances people will see as luck.

I just can't agree with this, so often in sport we see instances where someone profits from a particular break or piece of good fortune. For example a hole in one in golf from a shot that would shoot 20 feet past the hole if it hadn't crashed into the flag and dropped in. Is that a better shot than one that stops stone dead 6 inches from the hole? Not IMO, even if the reward from the hole in one is greater.

Obviously the better you are/more ability you have you find more success, that's obvious and I'm not suggesting that luck is the only (or even the biggest) determinant, but often it has a big part to play. Which is why sport is so interesting, otherwise the best team/individual would always emerge victorious.

Over 46 games the best team does emerge victorious.

Same in golf - if one guy is consistently hitting within 6 inches of a flag he might not beat the guy who hits the flag on a one-off hole, but he will over a four day tournament.

Nobody is saying that you can control every single variable in sport, but to suggest you can win an eight month season through sheer chance is madness. Likewise the guy who said ability wasn't a factor in winning the title. Just nonsense.

[winchester_royal]

I didn't say we won it through sheer chance though, I just said luck played a part.

[melonhead]

I didn't say we won it through sheer chance though, I just said luck played a part.

no one argues that randomness can play a part in every game
we didnt win the league by luck/randomness though
which is whatpeople said

[Extended-Phenotype]

I think the argument is against luck being a dominant factor in winning the title.

The referee's helped McD's Reading get relegated last season, but only an idiot would push this factor over others.

[winchester_royal]

I think the argument is against luck being a dominant factor in winning the title.

That's a very valid argument. The one that suggests that luck has nothing to do with sport and that the most deserving team always wins...well, isn't.

[melonhead]

except thats an argument youre having with yourself only

[winchester_royal]

except thats an argument youre having with yourself only

I don't really subscribe to the general idea of luck in sport

but f/ck off with this luck crap

I am very much in the 'not luck' camp. In sport, you win what you deserve to win through numerous contributing factors.

[AirRaidSiren]

Nit picking at the word 'luck' in football?

It(luck) can swing both ways, a prime example of having good fortune/luck and not having good fortune/unlucky:- Man City 1 - Reading 0, 2012.
Man City were lucky to have their goal allowed due to a blatant foul on Shorey, we were unlucky to not have a penalty when Tabb was fouled in their penalty box. We were unlucky to be on the end of a controversial decision that went against us, the 92nd controversial goal. Luck had a factor in the result.

Please, you cannot say luck had no play in this game? Luck or being unlucky does play a part in football, sport..

We did win the Championship with luck involved, as well as other factors (tactics, subs, team selection, determination etc etc), it is as clear as day.

[Maguire]

Even setting aside the fact that neither of those Man City incidents were clear cut, you can't extrapolate from that and say Reading got relegated due to luck.

Similarly, there's no case to be made to say that McDermott's Reading were lucky to get promoted. They weren't. People only say that to demean the manager after the fact because of what happened last season.

Deserved to win the title. Deserved to get relegated.

[melonhead]

except thats an argument youre having with yourself only

I don't really subscribe to the general idea of luck in sport

but f/ck off with this luck crap

I am very much in the 'not luck' camp. In sport, you win what you deserve to win through numerous contributing factors.

none of those people are saying what you said though