CONFIRMED - Billy Sharp

[andrew1957]

What ever figure you have you can easily triple that if you include Agent fees and signing on fees. Every single payment that goes into bringing a player to the football club has to come from somewhere. You sooner people understand, the less of this crap we will hear from deluded fans

Yes all part of the costs of running a club admittedly but we only spent just over 2M on agents fees (PL own figures - see below). As for signing on fees I suspect the only big one was to Pog (reputedly a 2M signing on fee) and that looks increasingly like the worst bit of business ever to have been done by the club - unless he turns it round this season and gets us back up with 15 plus goals.

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j& ... d7Zzcynf9w

[TBM]

TBM said its like renting a house, dead money. no it is not ,it is the difference between a full MAD STAD and an empty one. Pay the wages and say goodbye to the championship again.Then splash out to stay there in the premier div.

Billy Sharp will guarantee a full stadium?

£18k a week for a player that is no better than what we already have that we then give back at the end of the season, and if we don't go up = dead money

[andrew1957]

The more I think about it the more I conclude that certain people like Crypy and Melonhead on here must be paid employees of the club because the tone of their posts is that no dissent should be allowed under any circumstances...ever. Any criticism (however merited) is met by a tirade of abuse and counter arguments.

We know from the Snowdon leaks that the USA employ tens of thousands of people to not only eavesdrop on everyone, but also to plant disinformation on the web. Perhaps RFC do the same.

Or perhaps my paranoia is raring up again and I need to see my doctor.

[Cypry]

Regarding wages obviously none of us know the exact figures but here is a stab at it.

Leaving Church 7.5K per week
Hunt 10K per week
Shorey 10K per week
Harte 10K per week
Tabb 7.5K per week
Mills 5K per week
Kebe 10K per week
Mariappa 10K per week
Andersen 5K per week
Carrico 10K per week

Total 85K per week

In Bridge 10K per week
Drenthe 12K per week
Williams 10K per week

Total 32K per week overall saving £2.756M

These figures are conservative. In this I have assumed the three joiners are on PL equivalent wages (may be lower). We can assume that although HRK and Pearce got better contracts that they will be receiving no more than last season. Most other players will have had a wage cut and this will have saved much more.

We received 63M last season reputedly plus we will get a 20M parachute payment this season. We spent next to nothing on players when we got promoted and spent next to nothing again this summer and yet we cannot afford 234K on a loan deal.

Whatever we got for Kebe and Mariappa, we can be 100% sure we made a profit on them.

Give me a break - we are all in favour of financial stability, but these numbers just don't add up to me.

And Melonhead - I have worked out that you must be NH as the club can never do anything wrong in your book.

£40M actually, but what's £23M between friends.....? http://www.sportingintelligence.com/201 ... 13-210501/

If you're going to try to beat the club up and quote figures to back up your point, at least try to make sure they're accurate....

If our wage bill was similar to last time in the Prem (£28M - I suspect there'll have been some inflationary pressure on that so probably in excess of £30M this time...) then you can write it down to £12M maximum last year for signings, getting CAT1 status etc etc - yes, we get some income from tickets, shirt sales etc but it really is insignificant in the grand scheme of things....we did spend at least £5M on transfer fees so now you're down to a maximum of £7M left (oh yeah, and we spent over £1M on the new 3G pitch behind the Dome)....

This year we get £23M in parachute payments, so even if we reduce our wage bill by a third through offloading players and relegation clauses, we'll still only have some £3M left - not much is it?

Still, if you want to keep on making up conspiracy theories based on made up numbers, you carry on.....

The 63M is the estimated total turnover from all activities including gate receipts, hospitality and merchandising. 40M is just the TV money. So sorry I did not make that clear.

And as for the total spending on buying players the figures are
Summer 2012 £3,260,000
Winter 2012/13 £3,310,000
Summer 2013 Profit £4,250,000

Net spend over three windows £2,320,000. These are based on the most common estimates in the press etc. And don't give me we don't get it all up front nonsense because that applies to purchases too and so is neutral.

Again I am not saying we should be spending 20M but £234K on a loan player in a position we are desperately short in seems a very low risk gamble to me - especially as next summer a lot of quite high earners will leave the wage bill (Gorkks, Leigertwood and Roberts immediately come to mind).

And as for this season thanks for pointing out we get 23M and not 20M parachute payment but we will also turn over around 17-20M on top (again gate receipts, hospitality, merchandising etc) so your figures are right up the spout.

Estimated by who? An extraordinarily optimistic optimist?

In the Championship in the previous year our ENTIRE TURNOVER was £14.8M including TV money and Premier League "solidarity payments" (about £5M in total) - yet somehow in the PL we've managed to generate £23M from sources other than TV, a leap of £14M? I think your estimate might be a little out, don't you?

As for turning over £17-20M this year, we might come close to £17M if we get a decent cup run (was worth about £2.5M to us in 2010/11), but given that our operating loss in 2011/12 was over £20M (with a wage bill of £26.6M), we're hardly rolling in it. With the parachute payments we might just about break even this year based on our current transfer dealings, and not including any costs which relate to the new training ground....

[andrew1957]

TBM said its like renting a house, dead money. no it is not ,it is the difference between a full MAD STAD and an empty one. Pay the wages and say goodbye to the championship again.Then splash out to stay there in the premier div.

Billy Sharp will guarantee a full stadium?

£18k a week for a player that is no better than what we already have that we then give back at the end of the season, and if we don't go up = dead money

errr

ALF 149 goals in 366 appearances
Pog 119 in 347 (and a lot of those goals came some years ago)
Blackman 30 in 118

Sharp 141 in 310 (better than any of the above)

Roberts good but unlikely to play much of a part this season. ALF is carrying all our hopes on his shoulders.

So what if we cannot have him permanently - we are talking about a 13 week emergency loan to get us nearly to the next transfer window.

[andrew1957]

Estimated by who? An extraordinarily optimistic optimist?

In the Championship in the previous year our ENTIRE TURNOVER was £14.8M including TV money and Premier League "solidarity payments" (about £5M in total) - yet somehow in the PL we've managed to generate £23M from sources other than TV, a leap of £14M? I think your estimate might be a little out, don't you?

As for turning over £17-20M this year, we might come close to £17M if we get a decent cup run (was worth about £2.5M to us in 2010/11), but given that our operating loss in 2011/12 was over £20M (with a wage bill of £26.6M), we're hardly rolling in it. With the parachute payments we might just about break even this year based on our current transfer dealings, and not including any costs which relate to the new training ground....

You miss the fact that everything is far more expensive in the PL - I might be being conservative estimating 23M PL non TV turnover when on takes into account the much higher ticket revenues both home and particularly away.

You are right that the last season in the Championship t/o was 14.8M but the previous season it was 17.3M so when I said 17-20M I am hardly being outlandishly optimistic. Equally we might have turned over 66M rather than 63M last season - only the accounts will bear that out.

But it does not disguise the fact that your earlier figures were out by our entire non TV turnover.

[Cypry]

The more I think about it the more I conclude that certain people like Crypy and Melonhead on here must be paid employees of the club because the tone of their posts is that no dissent should be allowed under any circumstances...ever. Any criticism (however merited) is met by a tirade of abuse and counter arguments.

We know from the Snowdon leaks that the USA employ tens of thousands of people to not only eavesdrop on everyone, but also to plant disinformation on the web. Perhaps RFC do the same.

Or perhaps my paranoia is raring up again and I need to see my doctor.

Not at all....I'm fine with dissent where it's backed up with decent evidence, but if I believe someone's simply made stuff up to support an argument then I don't see why I shouldn't point that out?

I did, until early last Summer have a very good source of information in the club, and it's given me a better insight than some into how the club is run....

However, if the club needs to be criticised, I will do so - what I will also do though, is pick people up when they make grand "where's the money gone" type accusations, based on figures which seem to be little other than a figment of their imagination....I would have liked to have seen the club sign a striker in the transfer window as much as anyone, and I'm disappointed that we didn't, but I'm not going to start throwing baseless accusations at the club, as many seem to want to do at the moment, which imply that the club somehow lied about possible signings purely to sell more season tickets, or that the club never had any intention of making any signings in the first place - those accusations are completely without foundation in my opinion....

It's funny how those who want to beat the club up continually massively overestimate the income of the club, and underestimate the outgoings - all I'm doing is quoting accurate figures, which are in the public domain to demonstrate that, despite what some people would have us believe, there is no big pot of money that hasn't been spent, and Anton isn't siphoning money off into some offshore account (and in fact is likely this year to have to underwrite a significant loss by the club). If you want a good read which explains why there isn't tons of money lying around, then pop over to TTE and have a read of this http://www.thetilehurstend.com/2013/3/2 ... -2011-2012

[melonhead]

In Bridge 10K per week
Drenthe 12K per week
Williams 10K per week


.

And Melonhead - I have worked out that you must be NH as the club can never do anything wrong in your book

why do you guys always attempt to play the man, not the ball, when youve lost an argument


clubs done loads oxf*rd wrong in my book you lemon.
stuff i've moaned about on here, its just you only see what you want to see, and what fits your preconceived and daft opinions.

selling kebe
sacking brian
criticising brian when he was sacked and blaming him for not spending
giving jason roberts another contract
selling Nhunt without having any idea of who we could get in to replace him
refusing to have collars on the shirts despite it guaranteeing we wont get promoted if we dont
allowing the band into the stadium


what you wont catch me doing is spouting random nonsense about finances i dont understand, because ive got all my info from the premiere league press machine, instead of actually examining the actual accounts, seeing what has happened previously, and basing my opinions on that.

all of this is utterly irrelevant anyway, because its not as though we have no money to spend. we have money to spend in the right places, and tried to, its just a tough market place, and we wont just spend daft money simply to pacify mental fans who dont really understand the business we are running.

but thanks for your input you love truncheon

[Extended-Phenotype]

MH always makes a fair point although I concur he's a little bit like talking to a Scientologist. He can't break from the party line or else the club will release his history of pet-noncing.

[melonhead]

If true, it is a worrying situation. If we signed a player like Sharp we'd have to pay those kind of wages so you why are they are stumbling block in a loan deal?

It's like renting a house. It's dead money

Not if he scores 8 between now and Christmas and we are top of the league by then. Think of how much money promotion brings.

lol at you gambling with someone elses millions


& ive edited this last quote for you so its more correct:

These figures are made up, and based on nothing but my own random imaginings. In this i say I have assumed the three joiners are on PL equivalent wages except the wages quoted are actually about average for the championship, and definitely below the true value.

im totally guessing that we received 63M last season, while ignoring the fact that the wage bill will have increased from about 15million up to 40 million quid at the same time. plus we will get a 20M parachute payment this season which im totally ignoring the fact that its for transitioning the clubs wage bill to the lower level, and not about spending it all to get back up. I'll also conveniently ignore all the money spent on training grounds, and academy set up and regular outgoings.
We spent next to nothing on players(apart from the millions in payments to other clubs, more millions in wages, and signing on fees for very highly paid free agents) when we got promoted and spent next to nothing again this summer and yet ill assume we havent made a loan deal yet because we cannot afford 234K on a loan deal, cos it suits my argument, regardless of the fact that there could be a multitude of other reasons for it not happening yet.

Whatever we got for Kebe and Mariappa, we can be 100% sure we made a profit on them as long as i totally ignore the money we've spent on their wages while they were here and combine all of the quoted figures i read in a paper about their transfer fees, totally ignoring the fact that these will be guesswork, and including all of the possible extra clauses and payments we could get, but probably wont, and definitely havent yet..

these numbers just don't add up to me. because my brain is broken

[melonhead]

TBM said its like renting a house, dead money. no it is not ,it is the difference between a full MAD STAD and an empty one. Pay the wages and say goodbye to the championship again.Then splash out to stay there in the premier div.

youre a premiere div

[Ian Royal]

Give me a break - we are all in favour of financial stability, but these numbers just don't add up to me.

It's probably because you've just made them up.

[melonhead]

The more I think about it the more I conclude that certain people like Crypy and Melonhead on here must be paid employees of the club because the tone of their posts is that no dissent should be allowed under any circumstances...ever. Any criticism (however merited) is met by a tirade of abuse and counter arguments.

We know from the Snowdon leaks that the USA employ tens of thousands of people to not only eavesdrop on everyone, but also to plant disinformation on the web. Perhaps RFC do the same.

Or perhaps my paranoia is raring up again and I need to see my doctor.

melonhead disagrees with me.

and yeah, how dare i meet your arguments with counter arguments

jeeeezus h fooking christ

[melonhead]

Give me a break - we are all in favour of financial stability, but these numbers just don't add up to me.

It's probably because you've just made them up.

[Millsy]

The more I think about it the more I conclude that certain people like Crypy and Melonhead on here must be paid employees of the club because the tone of their posts is that no dissent should be allowed under any circumstances...ever. Any criticism (however merited) is met by a tirade of abuse and counter arguments.

We know from the Snowdon leaks that the USA employ tens of thousands of people to not only eavesdrop on everyone, but also to plant disinformation on the web. Perhaps RFC do the same.

Or perhaps my paranoia is raring up again and I need to see my doctor.

Absolutely spot on.

Without mentioning names it is hopefully obvious to most now that RFC has at leat an indirect propaganda presence here. The self-contradictory and ever changing arguments from certain folk that I have repeatedly been torn to shreds by those of us with half a brain cell are now all too obvious to everyone, or should be.

1000s of fans of a wide range of intellect I come across through certain means are pretty much unanimous in what they see happening yet there is a distinct completely disproportionate vocal voice on HNA who are hell bent on defending the club no matter what happens. It doesn't correlate with reality and so it is clear where at least some of it comes from.

You can't blame RFC though: a big company that *doesnt* use social media platforms to infiltrate and defend itself undercover, when everyone is criticising them, is one that is rather naive. If it doesn't happen I'd be even more concerned!!

Having said that HNA is an irritating place to be with these infiltrating RFC apologists. And if it genuinely isn't infiltration as I say it begs the question why are RFC not doing it? And what possesses lay people to humiliate themselves repeatedly with blind defence of the club for no obvious reason??

The fact is this: we are still little Reading (albeit a bit less little now) but the club think they can get away with mikhailoving players and managers into joining us by feeding them false promises of big Reading. Why on earth do we as fans act so surprised then when we are also mikhailoved into buying season tickets with the promise of a major squad improvement only to find we have a weaker squad with an outsude chance of playoffs??

[melonhead]

also- any finances youre quoting arent taking into account that last time out at this level we were making a ~5 million loss each year, and having to sell players just to stop that loss getting even huger
and that was with a much lower wage bill than the one we have right now
and without spending at least 2 million a year just keeping the Cat 1 academy running.


just use your brain you mongs

[melonhead]

The more I think about it the more I conclude that certain people like Crypy and Melonhead on here must be paid employees of the club because the tone of their posts is that no dissent should be allowed under any circumstances...ever. Any criticism (however merited) is met by a tirade of abuse and counter arguments.

We know from the Snowdon leaks that the USA employ tens of thousands of people to not only eavesdrop on everyone, but also to plant disinformation on the web. Perhaps RFC do the same.

Or perhaps my paranoia is raring up again and I need to see my doctor.

Absolutely spot on.

[melonhead]

What ever figure you have you can easily triple that if you include Agent fees and signing on fees. Every single payment that goes into bringing a player to the football club has to come from somewhere. You sooner people understand, the less of this crap we will hear from deluded fans

Yes all part of the costs of running a club admittedly but we only spent just over 2M on agents fees (PL own figures - see below). As for signing on fees I suspect the only big one was to Pog (reputedly a 2M signing on fee) and that looks increasingly like the worst bit of business ever to have been done by the club - unless he turns it round this season and gets us back up with 15 plus goals.

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j& ... d7Zzcynf9w

and guthrie?

and the other free agents we signed?

[Ian Royal]

Someone suggest it to the club. I'll happily do it for a 20% discount on my season ticket. But only if I can continue to use foul and abusive language and aggressive sarcasm. If they want professionalism, I'll need £5k a year as a second job minimum.

[Barry the bird boggler]

Come on Reading only got until 28th November (76 days) to get a striker or two in on loan....