Chris Gunter

[Victor Meldrew]

I think there are a lot of people who simply don't understand the system that Adkins is trying to introduce.....heard a woman on BBCRB yesterday whining on about "why did we start the game playing 4-4-2 with no wingers" FFS...

If you've watched how we're playing, the full backs are there to give us the width (Adkins has even spoken about playing our "wide men" such as Jobi, Drenthe etc on the "wrong side" to encourage them to come narrower and leave space for the full backs outside. As soon as we have possession, the full backs are relieved of defensive duties and push on up the wings. The centre backs split, and the defensive midfield drops deeper between them. Morrison covering for a ball over the top is exactly what he's supposed to do.

Earlier on in pre-season and the league we had an issue, mainly with the midfield not dropping deep enough leaving a massive hole between the centre backs - the Bristol City game was a classic example of this. We seem to have fixed this to an extent, but we still get caught occasionally with bad organisation in that defensive midfield area (it is improving though).

In pushing up the wing, Gunter is doing exactly what he is supposed to do - Bridge executed it pretty much perfectly yesterday, and got some excellent crosses in. If I have one frustration with Gunter I wish he'd back himself to beat the oppositions full back more often, something Bridge did really well. I suspect that it is Gunters athletic ability which means he's preferred over Kelly, who will probably struggle for pace in that system...

But full-backs still have to defend as there is no sweeper behind the two centre-backs.
Gunter was bought as a package with McCleary and at Forest they had an excellent way of playing together ,one goes ,the other drops, very much in the way that in his early days at Saints (pre-Adkins)Bale did the same with Surman.
For whatever reason Gunter and McCleary have rarely played together for us.
Anyway Gunter is a terrible defender and Kelly is a good defender so what do people want from full-backs?

His positional sense may need working on but he ain't a terrible defender so don't say things for the sake of it.
If he was adkins wouldn't play him

This is the same Adkins who played another terrible defender ,Ian Harte.
I rest my case.

[Ginger Ninjas]

I think there are a lot of people who simply don't understand the system that Adkins is trying to introduce.....heard a woman on BBCRB yesterday whining on about "why did we start the game playing 4-4-2 with no wingers" FFS...

If you've watched how we're playing, the full backs are there to give us the width (Adkins has even spoken about playing our "wide men" such as Jobi, Drenthe etc on the "wrong side" to encourage them to come narrower and leave space for the full backs outside. As soon as we have possession, the full backs are relieved of defensive duties and push on up the wings. The centre backs split, and the defensive midfield drops deeper between them. Morrison covering for a ball over the top is exactly what he's supposed to do.

Earlier on in pre-season and the league we had an issue, mainly with the midfield not dropping deep enough leaving a massive hole between the centre backs - the Bristol City game was a classic example of this. We seem to have fixed this to an extent, but we still get caught occasionally with bad organisation in that defensive midfield area (it is improving though).

In pushing up the wing, Gunter is doing exactly what he is supposed to do - Bridge executed it pretty much perfectly yesterday, and got some excellent crosses in. If I have one frustration with Gunter I wish he'd back himself to beat the oppositions full back more often, something Bridge did really well. I suspect that it is Gunters athletic ability which means he's preferred over Kelly, who will probably struggle for pace in that system...

thanks for this Cypry. Smartest thing I've read on here for a long time.

Agreed!

[WestRoyal]

This is the same Adkins who played another terrible defender ,Ian Harte.
I rest my case.[/quote]

Didn't BM also play him in our title winning season?
You rest your case or you can't argue your case....

[melonhead]

I think there are a lot of people who simply don't understand the system that Adkins is trying to introduce.....heard a woman on BBCRB yesterday whining on about "why did we start the game playing 4-4-2 with no wingers" FFS...

If you've watched how we're playing, the full backs are there to give us the width (Adkins has even spoken about playing our "wide men" such as Jobi, Drenthe etc on the "wrong side" to encourage them to come narrower and leave space for the full backs outside. As soon as we have possession, the full backs are relieved of defensive duties and push on up the wings. The centre backs split, and the defensive midfield drops deeper between them. Morrison covering for a ball over the top is exactly what he's supposed to do.

Earlier on in pre-season and the league we had an issue, mainly with the midfield not dropping deep enough leaving a massive hole between the centre backs - the Bristol City game was a classic example of this. We seem to have fixed this to an extent, but we still get caught occasionally with bad organisation in that defensive midfield area (it is improving though).

In pushing up the wing, Gunter is doing exactly what he is supposed to do - Bridge executed it pretty much perfectly yesterday, and got some excellent crosses in. If I have one frustration with Gunter I wish he'd back himself to beat the oppositions full back more often, something Bridge did really well. I suspect that it is Gunters athletic ability which means he's preferred over Kelly, who will probably struggle for pace in that system...

thanks for this Cypry. Smartest thing I've read on here for a long time.

Agreed!

its spot on - but adkins is still up for some criticism when he plays our best striker out there, where he did the square root of oxf*rd all, and looked lost, and utterly dispirited.

ALFs best position is in the box. the end.
pretty useless anywhere else.

we have alot of good options in wide attacking positions, be that bombing down wings, or cutting in and playing more centrally,
playing ALF instead of one of those was an awful decision.

[Victor Meldrew]

This is the same Adkins who played another terrible defender ,Ian Harte.
I rest my case.

Didn't BM also play him in our title winning season?
You rest your case or you can't argue your case....[/quote]

He surely did play him in our championship winning side...and then brought in Nicky Shorey.
Adkins played him for a while and then decided that a right-footed player couldn't be any worse than an 87 year old.
So just playing a defender such as Gunter doesn't mean that we can't do better and defensively Kelly is so much better.
Do you suggest that Adkins' judgement was right in giving so much game time to Blackman and so little to McAnuff or playing our most successful striker as a left-winger?
Managers aren''t always right you know.

[melonhead]

this is my biggest worry. not the finances, or transfer situation.
its some of adkins decision making.


but im sure he'll get there eventually

[WestRoyal]

This is the same Adkins who played another terrible defender ,Ian Harte.
I rest my case.

Didn't BM also play him in our title winning season?
You rest your case or you can't argue your case....

He surely did play him in our championship winning side...and then brought in Nicky Shorey.
Adkins played him for a while and then decided that a right-footed player couldn't be any worse than an 87 year old.
So just playing a defender such as Gunter doesn't mean that we can't do better and defensively Kelly is so much better.
Do you suggest that Adkins' judgement was right in giving so much game time to Blackman and so little to McAnuff or playing our most successful striker as a left-winger?
Managers aren''t always right you know.[/quote]

So Ian Harte lost his legs due to his age which I assume that is what you are referring to calling him an 87 year old. Well that doesn't make him a terrible defender he just wasn't cutting it at this level anymore.
If he didn't read the game so well he would not of lasted this long so think about what you are saying

Also

1. I never said we couldn't do better than Gunter, there is always someone better. I questioned your term 'terrible defender' used for the guy. How can one be that terrible to play at this level and hold down a number of international caps for wales. Are you going to say getting caps for wales is not achievement

2. I thought we were talking about Günter, not Blackmans and Jobi's game time and a striker turned winger if that's how you see it

[RoyalinBracknell]

[quote="Victor Meldrew

But full-backs still have to defend as there is no sweeper behind the two centre-backs.
Gunter was bought as a package with McCleary and at Forest they had an excellent way of playing together ,one goes ,the other drops, very much in the way that in his early days at Saints (pre-Adkins)Bale did the same with Surman.
For whatever reason Gunter and McCleary have rarely played together for us.
Anyway Gunter is a terrible defender and Kelly is a good defender so what do people want from full-backs?

His positional sense may need working on but he ain't a terrible defender so don't say things for the sake of it.
If he was adkins wouldn't play him

This is the same Adkins who played another terrible defender ,Ian Harte.
I rest my case.[/quote]

Did he? As far as I recall Harte came on as a sub for about 10 minutes in the game we got relegated but other than that I don't remember Harte playing at all under Adkins. As I remember Shorey played in Adkins' first game and it was Kelly at left-back after that.

[NewCorkSeth]

Watching the official club highlights on youtube (which I will presume are What the club thinks Brightons most significant attacking threats were) and found Gunter at fault twice... during the two attempts Brighton were shown doing.

-The first Ashley Barnes strike you can see Gunter look around to see where his man is, notice nobody else is marking him, but moves forward to get behind Forster-Caskey allowing Barnes a free punt at goal. Bad defending that cannot be put down to Adkins style.

-The second Barnes shot Gunter is a significant ways up and in the pitch. The wing is totally free and I know we are not man marking. He gestures to Karacan to pick him up when it seems to me he is marking Karacans man (who could very easily be argued to be Morrisons man) This allows Barnes another good attempt at goal. Bad defending.

If you pause at 1:35 And look at the positions of the players him and Karacan should most certainly be switched. He should be picking up that man with Karacan outside the box in line with Guthrie. If the same thing had happened down the left it would not be a mirror image. Bridge would have picked up his man not left it to another team mate. I say this so nobody can say "thats Adkins style to let centre mids pick up the wide men in the box while the wingbacks swan about outside the box"

In my head it all seems like nobody is organising the defense on the pitch. With the wingbacks pushing up its hard for there to be constant communication in defense but I would expect Morro, our Vice-Captain, to be much more vocal. It would go a long way towards fixing these kinds of cock-ups.

[joeroyal]

Watching the official club highlights on youtube (which I will presume are What the club thinks Brightons most significant attacking threats were) and found Gunter at fault twice... during the two attempts Brighton were shown doing.

-The first Ashley Barnes strike you can see Gunter look around to see where his man is, notice nobody else is marking him, but moves forward to get behind Forster-Caskey allowing Barnes a free punt at goal. Bad defending that cannot be put down to Adkins style.

-The second Barnes shot Gunter is a significant ways up and in the pitch. The wing is totally free and I know we are not man marking. He gestures to Karacan to pick him up when it seems to me he is marking Karacans man (who could very easily be argued to be Morrisons man) This allows Barnes another good attempt at goal. Bad defending.

If you pause at 1:35 And look at the positions of the players him and Karacan should most certainly be switched. He should be picking up that man with Karacan outside the box in line with Guthrie. If the same thing had happened down the left it would not be a mirror image. Bridge would have picked up his man not left it to another team mate. I say this so nobody can say "thats Adkins style to let centre mids pick up the wide men in the box while the wingbacks swan about outside the box"

In my head it all seems like nobody is organising the defense on the pitch. With the wingbacks pushing up its hard for there to be constant communication in defense but I would expect Morro, our Vice-Captain, to be much more vocal. It would go a long way towards fixing these kinds of cock-ups.

You can go on and on and on and on how many times must you be told Gunter is the preferred Rb as is chosen by the manager Kelly makes the numbers up on the left and is cover for Gunter now be told and be a good boy and just support the team, and find something useful to do with your time this obsession you have with Gunter is
doing you no good, in a survey 9 out of 10 managers prefer Gunter as there number 1 Rb

[NewCorkSeth]

Their*

[joeroyal]

Their*

Sorry for my typo error Seth, but unlike you I am a very busy person have not got time to have orgasms and fixations with players do please forgive me

[joeroyal]

Their*

But as we speak Gunter = 1st choice sorry if that is a bitter pill to swallow, I sure there is a video on YouTube for your dilemma

[NewCorkSeth]

I forgive you.

[MouldyRoyal]

You can go on and on and on and on how many times must you be told Gunter is the preferred Rb as is chosen by the manager Kelly makes the numbers up on the left and is cover for Gunter now be told and be a good boy and just support the team, and find something useful to do with your time this obsession you have with Gunter is
doing you no good, in a survey 9 out of 10 managers prefer Gunter as there number 1 Rb

This post made me a do a little sick in my mouth.

[NewCorkSeth]

You can go on and on and on and on how many times must you be told Gunter is the preferred Rb as is chosen by the manager Kelly makes the numbers up on the left and is cover for Gunter now be told and be a good boy and just support the team, and find something useful to do with your time this obsession you have with Gunter is
doing you no good, in a survey 9 out of 10 managers prefer Gunter as there number 1 Rb

This post made me a do a little sick in my mouth.

Was it the severe lack of punctuation? Or the overall meaning?

[Victor Meldrew]

This is the same Adkins who played another terrible defender ,Ian Harte.
I rest my case.

Didn't BM also play him in our title winning season?
You rest your case or you can't argue your case....

He surely did play him in our championship winning side...and then brought in Nicky Shorey.
Adkins played him for a while and then decided that a right-footed player couldn't be any worse than an 87 year old.
So just playing a defender such as Gunter doesn't mean that we can't do better and defensively Kelly is so much better.
Do you suggest that Adkins' judgement was right in giving so much game time to Blackman and so little to McAnuff or playing our most successful striker as a left-winger?
Managers aren''t always right you know.

So Ian Harte lost his legs due to his age which I assume that is what you are referring to calling him an 87 year old. Well that doesn't make him a terrible defender he just wasn't cutting it at this level anymore.
If he didn't read the game so well he would not of lasted this long so think about what you are saying

Also

1. I never said we couldn't do better than Gunter, there is always someone better. I questioned your term 'terrible defender' used for the guy. How can one be that terrible to play at this level and hold down a number of international caps for wales. Are you going to say getting caps for wales is not achievement

2. I thought we were talking about Günter, not Blackmans and Jobi's game time and a striker turned winger if that's how you see it[/quote]

Regarding your "getting caps for Wales is not achievement"-I give you as an example Hal Robson-Kanu.
Coming back to Gunter, Spurs saw the potential but fairly quickly ditched him and he had a good combination at Forest with McCleary ,good enough for us to sign both of them to play in the Premier League.
As others have said,a very athletic player going forward but not a clue about defending.
You don't get much for £2 million these days.

My point about Blackman actually being picked so often and Alf playing out of position was in response to your view that if Adkins picked a player that decision is irrefutable when clearly the man makes mistakes.
Unless we can get the Gunter/McCleary partnership working as well as it did at Forest I would prefer to see a proper defender at right-back,i.e Kelly.

[joeroyal]

You can go on and on and on and on how many times must you be told Gunter is the preferred Rb as is chosen by the manager Kelly makes the numbers up on the left and is cover for Gunter now be told and be a good boy and just support the team, and find something useful to do with your time this obsession you have with Gunter is
doing you no good, in a survey 9 out of 10 managers prefer Gunter as there number 1 Rb

This post made me a do a little sick in my mouth.

Shame it was so little Sorry to ask again but who is Readings RB

[joeroyal]

So Ian Harte lost his legs due to his age which I assume that is what you are referring to calling him an 87 year old. Well that doesn't make him a terrible defender he just wasn't cutting it at this level anymore.
If he didn't read the game so well he would not of lasted this long so think about what you are saying

Also

1. I never said we couldn't do better than Gunter, there is always someone better. I questioned your term 'terrible defender' used for the guy. How can one be that terrible to play at this level and hold down a number of international caps for wales. Are you going to say getting caps for wales is not achievement

2. I thought we were talking about Günter, not Blackmans and Jobi's game time and a striker turned winger if that's how you see it[/quote]

Regarding your "getting caps for Wales is not achievement"-I give you as an example Hal Robson-Kanu.
Coming back to Gunter, Spurs saw the potential but fairly quickly ditched him and he had a good combination at Forest with McCleary ,good enough for us to sign both of them to play in the Premier League.
As others have said,a very athletic player going forward but not a clue about defending.
You don't get much for £2 million these days.

My point about Blackman actually being picked so often and Alf playing out of position was in response to your view that if Adkins picked a player that decision is irrefutable when clearly the man makes mistakes.
Unless we can get the Gunter/McCleary partnership working as well as it did at Forest I would prefer to see a proper defender at right-back,i.e Kelly


Sorry vic old chum you wont be seeing that. don't waste your time get out and about its a big world out there

[WestRoyal]

My point about Blackman actually being picked so often and Alf playing out of position was in response to your view that if Adkins picked a player that decision is irrefutable when clearly the man makes mistakes.
Unless we can get the Gunter/McCleary partnership working as well as it did at Forest I would prefer to see a proper defender at right-back,i.e Kelly.[/quote]

Now you are twisting things, my point was that Gunter was not a 'terrible defender' and in the right system, playing with confidence would be an asset; as you have stated yourself with the Gunter/McCleary partnership
Just because I'm defending a player Adkins is giving game time to it doesn't mean I think Adkins decisions are always right so please read what I say before replying.
Your points about Blackman, Jobi and Le Fondre are ones I happen to agree with but that is not what we were talking about.