Tactics: the art of defending

[Linden Jones' Tash]

Apologies if this is covered elsewhere, but watching yesterday's performance has crystallised some thoughts about the lack of defensive 'shape' we have when we lose the ball, and I would appreciate the views of tacticians more expert than me on the size of this issue for RFC.

This is all the more poignant as pundits on MOTD have been making comparisons between Atkins and Pocchitino (sic) at Saints and the major shift in number of goals conceded - (for the record, my initial views were that spending £30M on amongst others a decent CB and DM helped, but the tactical insights on MOTD seemed to suggest its also about how they now defend when they lose the ball).

I can't help thinking that our central midfield remains unbalanced and has done since Leigertwood was shown to be limited at PL level. I had hoped that Akpan would be the answer to the 'sitting' midfielder in front of the back 4, but that doesn't seem to be his role.

Is Guthrie the problem? In trying to accommodate him, we have to put up with losses of possession in dangerous areas and don't seem to have a mechanism for coping with quick counter attacks?

Neither Baird, who plays DM as an 'interceptor' type player nor Jem, who does it by buzzing around, (mostly after shadows IMHO) seem to be the answer.

Of course, the back 5 have to take responsibility and Kelly was woeful at LB, but they were left massively exposed.

Surely a team which pays so much on Opta and other technologies should be able to see and address these issues, or is the manager to fixed on a particular approach?

[ILoveMoonPig]

It's difficult at times to see what exactly our tactics are. I think the majority of Adkins' detractors are so because they were expecting us to play high tempo, short passing, Arsenal style football. Instead, we play a far slower tempo game which is nowhere near as exciting to watch. Add to that, the fact that we all thought we would walk this division, it's just led us all to a general feeling of grumpiness.

Give it a while for our ambitions to lower and eventually this all won't seem as bad

[blueroyals]

When Adkins took over lots of Southampton fans said expect to concede lots of goals...

[One8Seven1]

Pearce has the speed and turning circle of a tank. Was he worth a bumper new deal to stay? No, I don't think so. Morrison is better but too often goes walkies. We really need a centre-back on loan. QPR did a great job in getting Dunne in! We're missing that calming experienced influence at the back.

[One8Seven1]

And Kelly should never never never play left-back again. He's always looked poor there, but yesterday was by far his worth performance there. I'm not convinced he's a decent right-back either. Another of McDermott's disaster January signings last season.

[LoyalRoyal22]

And Kelly should never never never play left-back again. He's always looked poor there, but yesterday was by far his worth performance there. I'm not convinced he's a decent right-back either. Another of McDermott's disaster January signings last season.

Yep. Gunter comfortably our best right back.

[sandman]

Kelly has been solid whenever he has played at RB and isn't prone to the lapses in concentration that Gunter is prone to or gone missing positionally like Gunter. If we were playing the way we should be ie using our excellent wingers as wide men like they're supposed to be, rather than Adkins awful idea of them going into the centre and the full backs playing as wide men then Kelly would and should be in the team at RB.

Saw Wales lose 0-3 to Serbia a couple of months ago and what side did all the goals come from? That's right Gunter, one was an absolute screamer granted but for the other two Gunter was nowhere to be seen. He is constantly caught out of position and has a nasty habit of misjudging the ball when it's in the air At least when Kelly has played badly he's got the excuse of been played out of position.

[LoyalRoyal22]

Kelly has been solid whenever he has played at RB and isn't prone to the lapses in concentration that Gunter is prone to or gone missing positionally like Gunter. If we were playing the way we should be ie using our excellent wingers as wide men like they're supposed to be, rather than Adkins awful idea of them going into the centre and the full backs playing as wide men then Kelly would and should be in the team at RB.

Saw Wales lose 0-3 to Serbia a couple of months ago and what side did all the goals come from? That's right Gunter, one was an absolute screamer granted but for the other two Gunter was nowhere to be seen. He is constantly caught out of position and has a nasty habit of misjudging the ball when it's in the air At least when Kelly has played badly he's got the excuse of been played out of position.

Boring. Gunter one of our most consistent players this season. Last season was left exposed against top players. Had 1 assist yesterday , should have been two. And none of the goals his fault.

[paddy20]

It's difficult at times to see what exactly our tactics are. I think the majority of Adkins' detractors are so because they were expecting us to play high tempo, short passing, Arsenal style football. Instead, we play a far slower tempo game which is nowhere near as exciting to watch. Add to that, the fact that we all thought we would walk this division, it's just led us all to a general feeling of grumpiness.

Give it a while for our ambitions to lower and eventually this all won't seem as bad

Nail on head I think there. we have no tempo which means we rarely expose deficiencies in the opposition as we give them time to organise. In the prem it makes little difference as the defences are far better but in the champ. thats where a lot of our goals came from last time around.. Also our lack of pace at the back means we are very vulnerable when we lose the ball in midfield when we are trying to be creative.

[Barry the bird boggler]

Class keeper but all four of the other positions in defence could be improved considerably.

[Victor Meldrew]

I think one of our problems is defending from the front.
Pog tries but whoever is his co-striker, whether that be Alf or Kanu, neither is any good at tackling or defending.
Pair that with McCleary and Obita (or Kanu if out wide) and these are two more who are weak in the tackle even if they do track back.
This puts great pressure on central midfielders and the back 4.

Amazingly Brian got both Jimmy and Jobi to do adequate (not outstanding, just adequate) tracking back.
I don't think that any of our back 4 are anywhere near even lower Prem standard so they need the help that wingers and strikers can provide as was the case when Jimmy and Jobi played out wide.
Up until now we have got away with it and apart from the Watford game and now yesterday we appear to be sound defensively-having said that, those of us that watch most games are amazed that others haven't scored more-they have had the chances but at this level are not great finishers.

I fully expect Jobi to be back in on Saturday and do so hope that Kanu goes off to Charlton to join that other under-achiever-how both he and Church have had so many opportunities I'll never know-they must just look good in training.

[facaldaqui]

I think we have had success in recent years with a very defensive midfield that presses and tackles hard. When the opposition have two lines of four to get through, they struggle. Of course, this gives rise to a brand of football that many supporters now moan about, but we made it work with very fast wingers and a fast breaking speed. Now that we are playing with a looser midfield--albeit in Guthrie a more creative one--the opposition can stream forward more easily against us, and this has exposed our lack of mobility at centre back. As for left back, we do pretty well there when Bridge is playing.

[Millsy]

The problem is the squad.

Shit defenders

Shit midfield

Shit attack

Defenders- Pearce has always been overrated and since when has Morrison suddenly become amazing? A mediocre, slow, cumbersome pair at best and we massively missing Maps. Left back is fantastic with Bridge but when he's not fit we are swpcrewed with no cover. Right back MUST be Kelly who is actually good but for some reason we are doing a Harte all over again and going for a full back who can attack instead of defend.

Midfield - a midfield is shit if it can't defend and with Karacan, Williams and Legs out the picture we are relying on Baird to defend and only Baird. If he doesn't turn up to a game, then we are screwed.

Attack - the best form of defence. We're beginning to learn how to score which is reassuring, but we're not quite there yet. Just as the Pog and Alfie find form and begin to forge a oartnership we go 451 and lose the rhythm. We've just not managed to be a good enough attacking force take it to constitute a good defence just yet.

We need a decent defender not just for cover but serious competition.

We need Kelly to start at RB.

We need a natural LB cover ASAP.

[Agent Balti]

Add to that, the fact that we all thought we would walk this division

I think this mind set has lead a lot to the defensive slip ups/cock ups we've shown of late. From the owners down, we were expecting to walk the division, but we're not capable of that. Chopping and changing your left back every other game is not going to help with cohesion of the unit, it's bounds to cause problems...and I think there is a big complacency problem. They're not working hard for each other because they think they are individually better than the rest. Saturday proved this is not the case and hopefully the penny will now have dropped...as if Millwall wasn't enough.

[genome]

The problem is the squad.

Shit defenders

Shit midfield

Shit attack

The recipe for success

[melonhead]

weve been worked out.
stop guthrie, and bully our CBs and you win the game.

[Pandoras Box]

The problem is the squad.

Shit defenders

Shit midfield

Shit attack

Analyse that Pog goal on Saturday and you'll see a positive clinical movement from Guthrie, Baird, Gunter and Pog that made it look piss easy.
If we did it more often we'd have no problems.

[Linden Jones' Tash]

On a related note, I like the thrust of this interview, albeit on a completely different level to our dilemmas, but having watched Reading since the mid '80's, I do think that we are culturally closer to this guy's philosophy than the Rogers and Atkins of this world.

a Klopp style would be a good middle way

http://www.theguardian.com/football/201 ... pp-arsenal