#AskJason

[Hertfordshire Royal]

Is John Barnes saying that all racists are fat, ugly and unemployed? Or does he mean that all fat, ugly and unemployed people are racist?

[Green]

Have you considered a username change to Three Counties Royal, Herts

Might future proof you if you keep moving around the area.

[Extended-Phenotype]

My thoughts exactly BF - the difference between JR and MG is that in many peoples eyes JR's has in some cases trivialised the fight against racism, MG hasn't. The responses seem proportionate to this perception.

How has he trivialised it? By having a different opinion to you?

He does seem to play the race card quite a lot. He moans there are not enough black managers/coaches - but he himself has said he is not interested in coaching/managing - I wonder if he has any concrete examples of black people being actively denied the chance to manager/coach. He's a very eloquent speaker and would be good for Kick it Out etc, but it does seem that he looks for problems where there aren't any. IMO. Did he answer any questions in the end btw?

I don't think that being more sensitive trivialises anything. People who mock his (debatable) over-sensitivity are doing that. It is possible to have a different opinion to someone without labelling theirs a farce.

Does he 'moan' there are not enough black managers, or has he just raised it as a concern? Is he saying it definitely is racism keeping them out or just wanting us to investigate what might be the cause? You know for sure he's wrong? If he is, surely you just point that out in a discussion rather than dish out a "SHUTUPYOUF?CKINIDIOT" or "IHATEBLACKCOFFEELOL".

As a white middle-aged lady, you sure he's looking for it where it isn't? Seems like he's exposed quite a lot of racism by merely volunteering himself for questions on twitter. Is it really all as rosy as you think it is?

As for his answers; shows how bothered people were with actual debate - you are the first person to even ask.

[Hertfordshire Royal]

Have you considered a username change to Three Counties Royal, Herts

Might future proof you if you keep moving around the area.

Good shout. Might move to Bucks just to finish the collection

[Bandini]

He moans there are not enough black managers/coaches - but he himself has said he is not interested in coaching/managing -

Let's all take a minute to reflect upon this logic fail.

[Extended-Phenotype]

He moans there are not enough black managers/coaches - but he himself has said he is not interested in coaching/managing -

Let's all take a minute to reflect upon this logic fail.

I doubt there are enough black Avon ladies. Doesn't mean JR is going to start troiling round cul-de-sacs in Finchampstead pushing shit perfume.

[soggy biscuit]

He does seem to play the race card quite a lot. He moans there are not enough black managers/coaches - but he himself has said he is not interested in coaching/managing

[Royal Lady]

What I MEAN is, if he's black and not interested in coaching/managing, maybe other black people (mainly ex players I'd imagine) feel the same as him - which is the answer as to why there are not as many black coaches/managers as he thinks there should be...

[Osborns scoop]

The problem with these debates is that there are different scales and types of racism and they are all discussed interchangeably, which just confuses things.

Firstly, verbal and physical racist abuse fueled by hatred is far less common than it used to be (certainly in this country). This does not mean it doesn't occur anymore, but I don't think anyone can argue that it is anywhere near as rife as it was in years gone by.

Secondly, racist comments made out of ignorance (not neccessarily fueled by racist views). Given recent incedents with John Terry, Suarez etc. this is still a problem but again I would argue that it is less of a problem that it has been previously. I for one cannot remember the last time I heard a racist comment being made first hand, certainly not within the last few months.

The problem we have (which has fueled the #askjason debate) is that because these very visible and audible forms of racism have reduced, many assume that any claims of racism should be and are treated as a storm in a tea cup. This is dangerous as the real problem in football and society in general is ingrained, almost subconcious racism. In football this is manifesting itself in the lack of black players progressing from playing to coaching/managing. Because this doesn't involve someone saying something racist or behaving in a racist manner, it has been allowed to continue unchecked.

What most urgently needs to be resolved, is why there are so few black managers, or senior FA employees etc. Are appointments made proportionate to applications? If so, then why aren't black people applying for positions? If not, why aren't black people being as successful in there applications? This needs to be reviewed. Until we understand where and when people are of dropping out of the system, we cannot understand and work on improving it and making it more fair and better represented.

[Bandini]

What I MEAN is, if he's black and not interested in coaching/managing, maybe other black people (mainly ex players I'd imagine) feel the same as him - which is the answer as to why there are not as many black coaches/managers as he thinks there should be...

I dunno, RL. I mean, we live in a world in which you write posts like that and yet there are also intelligent white women.

[Extended-Phenotype]

My thoughts exactly BF - the difference between JR and MG is that in many peoples eyes JR's has in some cases trivialised the fight against racism, MG hasn't. The responses seem proportionate to this perception.

How has he trivialised it? By having a different opinion to you?

No, he has trivialised it by screaming racism from his pedestal at every given opportunity without a second thought about the incident in question.

Boy, he sure sounds guilty in Made-Up World.

[Sanguine]

My thoughts exactly BF - the difference between JR and MG is that in many peoples eyes JR's has in some cases trivialised the fight against racism, MG hasn't. The responses seem proportionate to this perception.

How has he trivialised it? By having a different opinion to you?

No, he has trivialised it by screaming racism from his pedestal at every given opportunity without a second thought about the incident in question. It is not only a different opinion to me, it is a different opinion to 99.9% of people from all races and walks of life.

He is playing an admirable part in the battle against racism in football, and has a huge part to play i'm sure. But, just because he is on a pedestal it doesn't make his opinion more valid than anybody elses, it just makes him louder. When all those around you, regardless of race, are telling you you're wrong, you probably are.

Really?

I don't think this is what he has done.

[Victor Meldrew]

I have always liked John Barnes and respect his views as expressed in the above article.
Where I would take issue with him is over the disenfranchised in our society, those that he refers to from Brixton.
Although predominantly black in Brixton there are also disenfranchised white youngsters who feel that for them there is no hope.
It is not just a race issue-it is much wider than just race, it includes single parent family matters ,poor housing and loads of other factors-that makes them disenfranchised from society.

Race issues currently make trendy headlines-tackling the major social issues of what are now termed the underclasses is not trendy until some massive number of people (black or white) living under the same roof and claiming benefits hit the headlines and supposedly offend "hard-working people".

As an earlier poster wrote, the different generations have gradually got better and better in their approach to matters of race but unfortunately IMHO there are other areas within our society where matters are not approached with such gusto and the nouveaux riches have chosen to forget about the nouveaux pauvres.

Just for a day I would like Jason Roberts and members of the society for black lawyers to journey back 50 years or more to when I was a boy to see what it was like to be the rare black face in Reading,to try to rent a house, to try to get a non-manual job-bus conductors and factory workers yes, solicitors or accountants no but that was partly because those Barbadian immigrants had no educational qualifications and not to do with them being black including my good friend John Igiveittoyou (Tazewell Royal can confirm that this was his his name).
It wasn't exactly Alabama but there were no black kids at Wilson or Reading school, no black footballers at RFC there was just no integration.
I don't want Roberts et al to be humbly grateful, I would just like him to see how relatively tolerant our society now is and for ambitious black people they have every opportunity to succeed ,if they are any good and not just if they are white.

John Barnes didn't get the sack for being black, he got it for being an unsuccessful manager and, as other posters have said, Roberts is really looking for preferential treatment for black coaches rather than equal.
That can't be right and tokenism is surely something to be abhorred as much as blatant racism.

[Harpers So Solid Crew]

What there really are is more Scottish managers than is proportionate.

Why are there so many?

[Sanguine]

I don't want Roberts et al to be humbly grateful, I would just like him to see how relatively tolerant our society now is and for ambitious black people they have every opportunity to succeed ,if they are any good and not just if they are white.

John Barnes didn't get the sack for being black, he got it for being an unsuccessful manager and, as other posters have said, Roberts is really looking for preferential treatment for black coaches rather than equal.
That can't be right and tokenism is surely something to be abhorred as much as blatant racism.

I'm sure you didn't mean it, but there's a real undercurrent of 'them and us' about this section of your post.

'Tolerance' of black people?

And as with TSW's assertion that Roberts is 'screaming racism' at every opportunity, I'd be interested in evidence that Roberts is seeking preferential treatment for black coaches.

[Extended-Phenotype]

I guess everyone can have a different opinion, it makes life interesting.

Yours isn't.

[Ouroboros]

'Tolerance' of black people?

Oh right, so now it's not enough to allow black people to be football managers - we actually have to like it?

PC gone mad.

[Extended-Phenotype]

I guess everyone can have a different opinion, it makes life interesting.

Yours isn't.

Cool story bro.

Yeah, I liked the bit where the bloke named after an anti-apartheid activist invents reasons to hate a black man.

[P!ssed Off]

What most urgently needs to be resolved, is why there are so few black managers, or senior FA employees etc. Are appointments made proportionate to applications? If so, then why aren't black people applying for positions? If not, why aren't black people being as successful in there applications? This needs to be reviewed. Until we understand where and when people are of dropping out of the system, we cannot understand and work on improving it and making it more fair and better represented.

Yes, I agree.

I'd like to see some stats about ethnicity of coaches at grass roots level, then youth team coaches, then reserve coaches, then management.
Roberts would probably get more respect if he spent more time encouraging young black people to become grass roots coaches, youth coaches and the like as opposed to just criticising a lack of black managers and demanding more.

A top down approach of just appointing a manager on the basis that they are black is a bad idea. If they are underqualified and lack any prior experience, they will likely fail, get the sack and merely discourage others from management.

tbf the only professional football coach I know is black. He didn't merely complain that nobody offered him a management position, he started at the bottom.

[P!ssed Off]

What there really are is more Scottish managers than is proportionate.

Why are there so many?

oxf*rd disproportionate Scottish people everywhere!
I think we can all agree something needs to be done.