#AskJason

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Victor Meldrew
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Re: #AskJason

by Victor Meldrew » 06 Nov 2013 13:58

Sanguine
Victor Meldrew I don't want Roberts et al to be humbly grateful, I would just like him to see how relatively tolerant our society now is and for ambitious black people they have every opportunity to succeed ,if they are any good and not just if they are white.

John Barnes didn't get the sack for being black, he got it for being an unsuccessful manager and, as other posters have said, Roberts is really looking for preferential treatment for black coaches rather than equal.
That can't be right and tokenism is surely something to be abhorred as much as blatant racism.


I'm sure you didn't mean it, but there's a real undercurrent of 'them and us' about this section of your post.

'Tolerance' of black people? :|

And as with TSW's assertion that Roberts is 'screaming racism' at every opportunity, I'd be interested in evidence that Roberts is seeking preferential treatment for black coaches.


"Tolerance" in the much wider sense-blacks,asians,gays,disabled people etc.-our society(if we take white middle-class as the starting point of "our society") is definitely more tolerant of others or minorities than it ever has been IMHO.

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Re: #AskJason

by P!ssed Off » 06 Nov 2013 14:01

Not sure tolerance is the right word.

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Re: #AskJason

by Victor Meldrew » 06 Nov 2013 14:09

P!ssed Off Not sure tolerance is the right word.


O.k,give me another word.
Acceptance would imply condescension e.g. the way that somebody like Bandini treats you lot and borders on disdain rather than tolerance. :wink:

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Re: #AskJason

by Extended-Phenotype » 06 Nov 2013 14:11

Tokyo Sex Whale
Extended-Phenotype Yeah, I liked the bit where the bloke named after an anti-apartheid activist invents reasons to hate a black man.


That's a hat trick of shit posts, you're on a roll. A fourth?


For it to be a hat-trick they'd have to have gone in, rather than bounce off or fly over your thick head.

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Re: #AskJason

by P!ssed Off » 06 Nov 2013 14:15

Victor Meldrew
P!ssed Off Not sure tolerance is the right word.


O.k,give me another word.
Acceptance would imply condescension e.g. the way that somebody like Bandini treats you lot and borders on disdain rather than tolerance. :wink:


integration or equality I'd go with


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Re: #AskJason

by Extended-Phenotype » 06 Nov 2013 14:18

Tokyo Sex Whale A solid fourth, well done.

There's lots of rhetoric with no substance. Again and again and again.


Where as your responses are composed entirely of very easy counting. Let me guess, you are going to shout "five" at me next? Alarmingly not the most retarded argument I've ever engaged, even if it is the most predictable.

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Re: #AskJason

by Sanguine » 06 Nov 2013 14:20

Tbh TSW, I wouldn't agree that saying 'well people have different opinions' gives much substance to your claim that Roberts is 'screaming racism' all the time.

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Re: #AskJason

by Victor Meldrew » 06 Nov 2013 14:20

I'm not sure "integration" is quite right-a lot of minorities choose not to fully integrate.

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Re: #AskJason

by Extended-Phenotype » 06 Nov 2013 14:21

Sanguine Tbh TSW, I wouldn't agree that saying 'well people have different opinions' gives much substance to your claim that Roberts is 'screaming racism' all the time.


SIX!


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Re: #AskJason

by Victor Meldrew » 06 Nov 2013 14:22

Sanguine Tbh TSW, I wouldn't agree that saying 'well people have different opinions' gives much substance to your claim that Roberts is 'screaming racism' all the time.


In fairness he may have just been trying to bring the topic to an end.

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Re: #AskJason

by Extended-Phenotype » 06 Nov 2013 14:27

Victor Meldrew
Sanguine Tbh TSW, I wouldn't agree that saying 'well people have different opinions' gives much substance to your claim that Roberts is 'screaming racism' all the time.


In fairness he may have just been trying to bring the topic to an end.


In fairness he was probably running out the door because he was asked to defend the disinformation he was peddling and couldn't think of anything to say other than a sequence of low numbers.

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Re: #AskJason

by Silver Fox » 06 Nov 2013 14:28

Victor Meldrew Just for a day I would like Jason Roberts and members of the society for black lawyers to journey back 50 years or more to when I was a boy to see what it was like to be the rare black face in Reading.


That seems a bit easy, why not get them to go back to the Deep South in the 30s? Then they'd realise that nowadays they're not getting lynched and they can be grateful

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Re: #AskJason

by Victor Meldrew » 06 Nov 2013 14:38

Silver Fox
Victor Meldrew Just for a day I would like Jason Roberts and members of the society for black lawyers to journey back 50 years or more to when I was a boy to see what it was like to be the rare black face in Reading.


That seems a bit easy, why not get them to go back to the Deep South in the 30s? Then they'd realise that nowadays they're not getting lynched and they can be grateful


Well if you want to go the whole hog then how about all the way back to Africa pre- Wilberforce?
Yours is a rather silly post and misses the point that I was making that in some of our lifetimes things have changed-Roberts is English and living in Reading so going back a while would show him how it would have been in his own country if he had been born 30 years earlier than he actually was.
BTW Alabama in the 50s and early 60s still had lynch mobs whereas our much more tolerant society had nothing of the sort at the same time.


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Re: #AskJason

by Extended-Phenotype » 06 Nov 2013 14:42

Tokyo Sex Whale
Sanguine Tbh TSW, I wouldn't agree that saying 'well people have different opinions' gives much substance to your claim that Roberts is 'screaming racism' all the time.


TBH I was going to have a look at Google as well as trying to recall the occassions where I have heard/read JR speak about racism - most of them are on 5live or in his articles - but, EP was more entertaining and I don't have the time.


Yeah - angry yelling first, read the offensive material second if can be bothered - hope they match up.

Here, a little help:

Jason Roberts opinion on Monkeyg8
“Using the word ‘monkey’ to explain the need to get the ball to mixed race player is ill-judged.”


Not much screaming there. Maybe you just read stuff in a screaming voice.

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Re: #AskJason

by Pseud O'Nym » 06 Nov 2013 14:50

So, did anyone take the opportunity to ask him what his favourite colour is?

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Re: #AskJason

by Reading4eva » 06 Nov 2013 16:06

Pseud O'Nym So, did anyone take the opportunity to ask him what his favourite colour is?


Your an idiot :roll:

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Re: #AskJason

by Green » 06 Nov 2013 16:25

You're

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Royal Lady
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Re: #AskJason

by Royal Lady » 06 Nov 2013 16:30

Well I've yet to hear of any black person moaning that they can't get a job in football coaching/management - and until I do, I'll continue to believe that Jason Roberts is just inventing a problem that isn't actually there. Thanks then.

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Re: #AskJason

by Sanguine » 06 Nov 2013 16:41

Royal Lady Well I've yet to hear of any black person moaning that they can't get a job in football coaching/management - and until I do, I'll continue to believe that Jason Roberts is just inventing a problem that isn't actually there. Thanks then.


Fortunately, the national football programme extends further than the Lower Earley WI.

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Re: #AskJason

by Extended-Phenotype » 06 Nov 2013 16:45

Royal Lady Well I've yet to hear of any black person moaning that they can't get a job in football coaching/management - and until I do, I'll continue to believe that Jason Roberts is just inventing a problem that isn't actually there. Thanks then.


Who are you thanking?

Anyway, you can only hear a black person if you bother listening. i.e. look it up - took me a few seconds to find two examples.

Case Study 1 - Luther Blissett
Luther Blissett was one of the first black footballers to play in Italy, but his hopes of a ground-breaking impact in management were not realised. As a player, he gained experience abroad, played in every division of the Football League, became an England international and has since completed his coaching qualifications. To date, his only coaching jobs in the Football Leagues were spells at York City and Watford.

"I got my qualifications, started applying for jobs and didn't get interviews. I started applying at 30 and I'm now in my early 50s. People say persevere, but how long can you persevere? I started doing coaching at 17 and always knew that I wanted to stay in the game and contribute something. But eventually, you think, 'Shall I do this forever?' Attitudes have changed in many areas, but in terms of the boardroom and the organisation, there is often not the trust and belief that they can do that job. There's a perception that they can't do things. Some chairmen possibly don't want a black person to be the face of their club. They run the club and make their decisions.

"Statistics say it's getting more difficult. There are fewer English managers in the Premier League, they're taking more jobs in the Championship and it all has a knock-on effect.There needs to be more transparency. You apply for a job in football and you don't know the criteria. It's down to the personal choice of the chairman. All you want to know is that you've had a proper shout. I got the odd letter saying I didn't have the experience. That's the biggest load of rubbish. How do you get the experience if no one gives you a job?"

Case Study 2 - Viv Anderson
Viv Anderson made history when he became the first black player to represent England in 1978. The enormous progress that black players have made over the past three decades, however, has not been replicated in the dug-out.

Anderson's first job in coaching was as player-manager with Barnsley in 1993-94 and he kept them in what is now the Championship. He then moved to Middlesbrough where he spent seven years as assistant to Bryan Robson. In that time, Middlesbrough achieved two promotions and reached two League Cup and one FA Cup finals. Since leaving Middlesbrough in 2001, he has not had another job offer and now runs his own company. "The statistics are scary," Anderson said. "I'm disappointed but not surprised and it's an issue which needs to be addressed. I would say my CV is pretty good, but I've just got on with doing my own thing.

"There's an unconscious racism. Black kids want role models. There were successful black players and the next thing is to have successful black managers. At the moment, they're not getting the opportunity. You get to a level and there are barriers in front of you. It used to be thought that black players were flair players - that you couldn't be in a position of responsibility. They said we couldn't play in the cold, but I used to wear short sleeves and my job was to defend - that was what Brian Clough told me to do. I think there is a preconception now that they can't perform in the boardroom."

So is there a stereotype of black players being good athletes, but perhaps not such good thinkers? "Exactly right," said Anderson.

EDIT: (a third)

Sol Campbell

"I want to start abroad," said the 39-year-old in an exclusive interview with the Guardian. "There are no opportunities for me here, not until attitudes change anyway. Everyone has to ask themselves why there are not more black managers in this country and why the likes of [former Sheffield United striker] Brian Deane have to go abroad [to Sarpsborg 08 in Norway] to get a chance. I've spoken to other black players who want to coach and they feel the same, that attitudes here are archaic. I hope and pray the environment changes."


----

Anyway, if more black people came out and said they were turned down, I expect the next 'line of defence' would be that it was nothing to do with colour, they just weren't good enough.

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