Brian: The right decision?

[Ian Royal]

Nah mate...

Seem to remember his name being sung around the terraces, now some people won't even go because Adkins is in charge.

Good riddance if they stop supporting us because of a manager who's doing a decent job.

[Ian Royal]

really dont get the attraction of this thread, adkins is our manager now so what oxf*rd difference does it make as to weather it was the right decision

Loyalty to time served employees was a nice quality that we once had.

Whether it was the right decision is not, is (obviously) now irrelevent

Basically, I consider AZ to be a weasel, but i had no beef with Brian and his tenure, I have always rated Nige...so I am cutting my losses

Wrong decision

We're still a club looking for success at the end of the day. Brian got time to get us up. There are club's who'd have sacked him the season he got us promoted for the dire start we made. There are club's who'd have sacked him much sooner last season as well. In fact I'd go so far as to say very few club's wouldn't have sacked him by December.

Thankfully, we're the sort of club that backs its managers and generally only takes drastic action when faced with the looming threat of relegation. And even then, Coppell showed that if you make a bit of a fight of it in the top flight you may well still get backed.

[AthleticoSpizz]

We "were" that sort of club Ian

[Ian Royal]

We "were" that sort of club Ian

No sign we're any different now.

[AthleticoSpizz]

lol

any kind of sign would be nice

[Ian Royal]

How about the sign that nothing has changed in the way we operate?

[AthleticoSpizz]

Thanks John


......next

[sandman]

Nah mate...

Seem to remember his name being sung around the terraces, now some people won't even go because Adkins is in charge.

Good riddance if they stop supporting us because of a manager who's doing a decent job.

Never "good riddance" to people who have lost a connection with their club.

[Vision]

As usual there's some utter guff and history re-writing on this thread.

Firstly this notion that we used to be a club that looked after managers who served us well for many years. Take Maurice Evans, about as decent and loyal a guy as you could get who was unceromoniously dumped in favour of Ian Branfoot.

Brendan Rodgers who despite being tasked with a huge transition in personnel and playing style was given barely 6 months in the job. His many years helping to develop the Academy into something the club frequently boast about now didn't count for shit.

Likewise McD's 10 years of service don't come into the reckoning if the chairman can't see any future with him at the helm.

Personally I didn't agree with any of those dismissals but sometimes tough decisions have to be made and they need to be made with a clear mind not distracted by misty eyed notions of loyalty. In that sense the club hasn't changed one little bit and as much as i might not agree with it, it's probably the best way for them to operate.

The only time I can remember loyalty getting in the way of making a cold decision was when fan power effectively kept Coppell around for an extra season when neither his head nor his heart were really in it.

On the flipside though is the absurd revisionism of the McD era from the Adkins disciples. I'm not sure what league those people are looking at but the last time I looked at the championship it was made up of 24 teams and being in and around the top 6 doesn't constitute mid table. Also the 4th Highest wage bill in the division? Once we got promoted and paid the title winning bonuses it might have been up there but whilst we were actually playing the games we certainly weren't that high up on the salary front. Certainly i'd wager that we're closer to that level now under Adkins than we ever were under McD but even that's to be expected as a recently relegated Premiership team.

Oh and don't get me started on the whole McD only played hoofball debate either. Because it's bollocks.

FWIW I think Adkins is doing a decent job. he has a talented (if a little lopsided in places) squad for sure but is probably dealing with more changes and issues on and off the field than he envisioned when he took over. Sure he's a bit of a smarmfest when interviewed and I'm not convinced that the style of football is as progressive as some would have us believe but we're still in a very good position in the league. I'm hoping that he'll stop tinkering around with formations and personnel as much as he does (injuries permitting of course) and manages to settle things down a bit more for the second half of the season.

Either way, comparisons with McD's time here are pointless as it's a whole different situation. He's doing a decent job and any talk of sacking him (aside from the dubious trolling enjoyment) is ridiculous really.

[andrew1957]

As usual there's some utter guff and history re-writing on this thread.

Firstly this notion that we used to be a club that looked after managers who served us well for many years. Take Maurice Evans, about as decent and loyal a guy as you could get who was unceromoniously dumped in favour of Ian Branfoot.

Brendan Rodgers who despite being tasked with a huge transition in personnel and playing style was given barely 6 months in the job. His many years helping to develop the Academy into something the club frequently boast about now didn't count for shit.

Likewise McD's 10 years of service don't come into the reckoning if the chairman can't see any future with him at the helm.

Personally I didn't agree with any of those dismissals but sometimes tough decisions have to be made and they need to be made with a clear mind not distracted by misty eyed notions of loyalty. In that sense the club hasn't changed one little bit and as much as i might agree with it, it's probably the best way for them to operate.

The only time I can remember loyalty getting in the way of making a cold decision was when fan power effectively kept Coppell around for an extra season when neither his head nor his heart were really in it.

On the flipside though is the absurd revisionism of the McD era from the Adkins disciples. I'm not sure what league those people are looking at but the last time I looked at the championship it was made up of 24 teams and being in and around the top 6 doesn't constitute mid table. Also the 4th Highest wage bill in the division? Once we got promoted and paid the title winning bonuses it might have been up there but whilst we were actually playing the games we certainly weren't that high up on the salary front. Certainly i'd wager that we're closer to that level now under Adkins than we ever were under McD but even that's to be expected as a recently relegated Premiership team.

Oh and don't get me started on the whole McD only played hoofball debate either. Because it's bollocks.

FWIW I think Adkins is doing a decent job. he has a talented (if a little lopsided in places) squad for sure but is probably dealing with more changes and issues on and off the field than he envisioned when he took over. Sure he's a bit of a smarmfest when interviewed and I'm not convinced that the style of football is as progressive as some would have us believe but we're still in a very good position in the league. I'm hoping that he'll stop tinkering around with formations and personnel as much as he does (injuries permitting of course) and manages to settle things down a bit more for the second half of the season.

Either way, comparisons with McD's time here are pointless as it's a whole different situation. He's doing a decent job and any talk of sacking him (aside from the dubious trolling enjoyment) is ridiculous really.

To be fair that is a very good summary. I have made my views very clear that I did not agree with the sacking of Brian but now it has happened I really want to like Adkins, but the real worry to me is that there are no signs of improvement. The last three performances have been amongst the worst I can ever recall. We have won two of them but only largely thanks to the ineptitude of other teams in front of goal and Alex McCarthy.

This league is a tough battle of attrition more than a passing league and I am not sure that trying to play that way really works most of the time at this level. Swansea are the only exception in recent years as far as I recall and they needed the play offs to go up.

Once you get promoted the only way of surviving the PL for more than a season or two is to spend loads of money bringing in passing players and adapt the style, but this will always fail at RFC as soon as you mention the "spend loads of money" bit.

The only other outside possibility is to bring through a lot of really skilful Academy players at one time who grow up learning the passing style and all make the first team at much the same time, but no club has ever managed this since MU did it 20 years ago.

The best we can hope to be is a yo yo club which spends a year or two every now and then at PL level, which is why I would have kept Brian long term as he is well suited to getting promotions from this league.

[BR2]

We "were" that sort of club Ian

Maurice Evans anybody?

[Zana Badawi]

As usual there's some utter guff and history re-writing on this thread.

Firstly this notion that we used to be a club that looked after managers who served us well for many years. Take Maurice Evans, about as decent and loyal a guy as you could get who was unceromoniously dumped in favour of Ian Branfoot.

Brendan Rodgers who despite being tasked with a huge transition in personnel and playing style was given barely 6 months in the job. His many years helping to develop the Academy into something the club frequently boast about now didn't count for shit.

Likewise McD's 10 years of service don't come into the reckoning if the chairman can't see any future with him at the helm.

Personally I didn't agree with any of those dismissals but sometimes tough decisions have to be made and they need to be made with a clear mind not distracted by misty eyed notions of loyalty. In that sense the club hasn't changed one little bit and as much as i might not agree with it, it's probably the best way for them to operate.

The only time I can remember loyalty getting in the way of making a cold decision was when fan power effectively kept Coppell around for an extra season when neither his head nor his heart were really in it.

On the flipside though is the absurd revisionism of the McD era from the Adkins disciples. I'm not sure what league those people are looking at but the last time I looked at the championship it was made up of 24 teams and being in and around the top 6 doesn't constitute mid table. Also the 4th Highest wage bill in the division? Once we got promoted and paid the title winning bonuses it might have been up there but whilst we were actually playing the games we certainly weren't that high up on the salary front. Certainly i'd wager that we're closer to that level now under Adkins than we ever were under McD but even that's to be expected as a recently relegated Premiership team.

Oh and don't get me started on the whole McD only played hoofball debate either. Because it's bollocks.

FWIW I think Adkins is doing a decent job. he has a talented (if a little lopsided in places) squad for sure but is probably dealing with more changes and issues on and off the field than he envisioned when he took over. Sure he's a bit of a smarmfest when interviewed and I'm not convinced that the style of football is as progressive as some would have us believe but we're still in a very good position in the league. I'm hoping that he'll stop tinkering around with formations and personnel as much as he does (injuries permitting of course) and manages to settle things down a bit more for the second half of the season.

Either way, comparisons with McD's time here are pointless as it's a whole different situation. He's doing a decent job and any talk of sacking him (aside from the dubious trolling enjoyment) is ridiculous really.

I would agree with all this with one exception. We've won three of the last four and still NA wont get any respect from some of the fans.
Isn't this a weakness of his? Its much easier to get a streak going if you have the fans onside, but I know quite a few people who really aren't bothered by this season. Its the least exciting playoff attempt in living memory.

[Hampshire Royal]

Oh and don't get me started on the whole McD only played hoofball debate either. Because it's bollocks.

That's the most sensible thing anybody has written on this thread. Who was it who said that if you repeat a lie often enough it becomes the truth?

[Extended-Phenotype]

Oh and don't get me started on the whole McD only played hoofball debate either. Because it's bollocks.

Who was it who said that if you repeat a lie often enough it becomes the truth?

Nobody. It's a complete lie that has become the truth because people have repeated it often enough.

[BR2]

We "were" that sort of club Ian

Maurice Evans anybody?

Apologies Vision, I hadn't seen your earlier post which was a decent summary of these past few eras.

[Ian Royal]

As usual there's some utter guff and history re-writing on this thread.

Firstly this notion that we used to be a club that looked after managers who served us well for many years. Take Maurice Evans, about as decent and loyal a guy as you could get who was unceromoniously dumped in favour of Ian Branfoot.

Brendan Rodgers who despite being tasked with a huge transition in personnel and playing style was given barely 6 months in the job. His many years helping to develop the Academy into something the club frequently boast about now didn't count for shit.

Likewise McD's 10 years of service don't come into the reckoning if the chairman can't see any future with him at the helm.

Personally I didn't agree with any of those dismissals but sometimes tough decisions have to be made and they need to be made with a clear mind not distracted by misty eyed notions of loyalty. In that sense the club hasn't changed one little bit and as much as i might not agree with it, it's probably the best way for them to operate.

The only time I can remember loyalty getting in the way of making a cold decision was when fan power effectively kept Coppell around for an extra season when neither his head nor his heart were really in it.

On the flipside though is the absurd revisionism of the McD era from the Adkins disciples. I'm not sure what league those people are looking at but the last time I looked at the championship it was made up of 24 teams and being in and around the top 6 doesn't constitute mid table. Also the 4th Highest wage bill in the division? Once we got promoted and paid the title winning bonuses it might have been up there but whilst we were actually playing the games we certainly weren't that high up on the salary front. Certainly i'd wager that we're closer to that level now under Adkins than we ever were under McD but even that's to be expected as a recently relegated Premiership team.

Oh and don't get me started on the whole McD only played hoofball debate either. Because it's bollocks.

FWIW I think Adkins is doing a decent job. he has a talented (if a little lopsided in places) squad for sure but is probably dealing with more changes and issues on and off the field than he envisioned when he took over. Sure he's a bit of a smarmfest when interviewed and I'm not convinced that the style of football is as progressive as some would have us believe but we're still in a very good position in the league. I'm hoping that he'll stop tinkering around with formations and personnel as much as he does (injuries permitting of course) and manages to settle things down a bit more for the second half of the season.

Either way, comparisons with McD's time here are pointless as it's a whole different situation. He's doing a decent job and any talk of sacking him (aside from the dubious trolling enjoyment) is ridiculous really.

I'd suggest it's a bit desperate to go back as far as Maurice Evans as an example of us not showing loyalty to managers. Wasn't he before Madejski's time? As for Rodgers, we were sliding perilously close to a relegation fight and he'd been tasked with promotion within three years. He may have been able to turn it around, I have serious doubts about that. But they very fact that McDermott did turn it around so effectively justifies his sacking to my mind. As I said, we show loyalty and patience to a point, but when relegation is threatening we take decisive action. Some times that action may be debateable, but that's not a bad approach to take.

It wasn't just fan pressure for Coppell staying either, Madejski actually refused his resignation after Xmas when things were going wrong in the PL.

Other than that I'd largely agree with what you said. It certainly is ridiculous and revisionist to denigrate McDermott's achievements by saying he had us finishing mid-table except for Roberts purchase. Whilst hoofball is of course an exageration, there can surely be no doubt that McDermott's style was as direct as we've been for 10 - 20 years and retention of possession or attacking through the middle of the pitch was significantly lower down his list of priorities.

The salaries when we got promoted certainly will have been influenced by promotion, but considering for years we'd been towards the top end anyway, I doubt it'd moved us more than two or three places up at most. Roberts certainly will have had a significant influence on it regardless of whether we achieved promotion or not and there were plenty of other players in the squad likely to be top end earners for the Championship.

[loyalroyal4life]

As usual there's some utter guff and history re-writing on this thread.

Firstly this notion that we used to be a club that looked after managers who served us well for many years. Take Maurice Evans, about as decent and loyal a guy as you could get who was unceromoniously dumped in favour of Ian Branfoot.

Brendan Rodgers who despite being tasked with a huge transition in personnel and playing style was given barely 6 months in the job. His many years helping to develop the Academy into something the club frequently boast about now didn't count for shit.

Likewise McD's 10 years of service don't come into the reckoning if the chairman can't see any future with him at the helm.

Personally I didn't agree with any of those dismissals but sometimes tough decisions have to be made and they need to be made with a clear mind not distracted by misty eyed notions of loyalty. In that sense the club hasn't changed one little bit and as much as i might not agree with it, it's probably the best way for them to operate.

The only time I can remember loyalty getting in the way of making a cold decision was when fan power effectively kept Coppell around for an extra season when neither his head nor his heart were really in it.

On the flipside though is the absurd revisionism of the McD era from the Adkins disciples. I'm not sure what league those people are looking at but the last time I looked at the championship it was made up of 24 teams and being in and around the top 6 doesn't constitute mid table. Also the 4th Highest wage bill in the division? Once we got promoted and paid the title winning bonuses it might have been up there but whilst we were actually playing the games we certainly weren't that high up on the salary front. Certainly i'd wager that we're closer to that level now under Adkins than we ever were under McD but even that's to be expected as a recently relegated Premiership team.

Oh and don't get me started on the whole McD only played hoofball debate either. Because it's bollocks.

FWIW I think Adkins is doing a decent job. he has a talented (if a little lopsided in places) squad for sure but is probably dealing with more changes and issues on and off the field than he envisioned when he took over. Sure he's a bit of a smarmfest when interviewed and I'm not convinced that the style of football is as progressive as some would have us believe but we're still in a very good position in the league. I'm hoping that he'll stop tinkering around with formations and personnel as much as he does (injuries permitting of course) and manages to settle things down a bit more for the second half of the season.

Either way, comparisons with McD's time here are pointless as it's a whole different situation. He's doing a decent job and any talk of sacking him (aside from the dubious trolling enjoyment) is ridiculous really.

I would agree with all this with one exception. We've won three of the last four and still NA wont get any respect from some of the fans.
Isn't this a weakness of his? Its much easier to get a streak going if you have the fans onside, but I know quite a few people who really aren't bothered by this season. Its the least exciting playoff attempt in living memory.

It is because we are winning but still playing shit, not associated with a team marked as a promotion front runner.

Comes down to whether your glass is half empty or full in that you can either take it as it can only get better rather than not

[LoyalRoyalFan]

Nah mate...

Seem to remember his name being sung around the terraces, now some people won't even go because Adkins is in charge.

Good riddance if they stop supporting us because of a manager who's doing a decent job.

Surely he should be held accountable if his football can't attract the fans to the stadium each week?

[Vision]

As usual there's some utter guff and history re-writing on this thread.

Firstly this notion that we used to be a club that looked after managers who served us well for many years. Take Maurice Evans, about as decent and loyal a guy as you could get who was unceromoniously dumped in favour of Ian Branfoot.

Brendan Rodgers who despite being tasked with a huge transition in personnel and playing style was given barely 6 months in the job. His many years helping to develop the Academy into something the club frequently boast about now didn't count for shit.

Likewise McD's 10 years of service don't come into the reckoning if the chairman can't see any future with him at the helm.

Personally I didn't agree with any of those dismissals but sometimes tough decisions have to be made and they need to be made with a clear mind not distracted by misty eyed notions of loyalty. In that sense the club hasn't changed one little bit and as much as i might not agree with it, it's probably the best way for them to operate.

The only time I can remember loyalty getting in the way of making a cold decision was when fan power effectively kept Coppell around for an extra season when neither his head nor his heart were really in it.

On the flipside though is the absurd revisionism of the McD era from the Adkins disciples. I'm not sure what league those people are looking at but the last time I looked at the championship it was made up of 24 teams and being in and around the top 6 doesn't constitute mid table. Also the 4th Highest wage bill in the division? Once we got promoted and paid the title winning bonuses it might have been up there but whilst we were actually playing the games we certainly weren't that high up on the salary front. Certainly i'd wager that we're closer to that level now under Adkins than we ever were under McD but even that's to be expected as a recently relegated Premiership team.

Oh and don't get me started on the whole McD only played hoofball debate either. Because it's bollocks.

FWIW I think Adkins is doing a decent job. he has a talented (if a little lopsided in places) squad for sure but is probably dealing with more changes and issues on and off the field than he envisioned when he took over. Sure he's a bit of a smarmfest when interviewed and I'm not convinced that the style of football is as progressive as some would have us believe but we're still in a very good position in the league. I'm hoping that he'll stop tinkering around with formations and personnel as much as he does (injuries permitting of course) and manages to settle things down a bit more for the second half of the season.

Either way, comparisons with McD's time here are pointless as it's a whole different situation. He's doing a decent job and any talk of sacking him (aside from the dubious trolling enjoyment) is ridiculous really.

I'd suggest it's a bit desperate to go back as far as Maurice Evans as an example of us not showing loyalty to managers. Wasn't he before Madejski's time? As for Rodgers, we were sliding perilously close to a relegation fight and he'd been tasked with promotion within three years. He may have been able to turn it around, I have serious doubts about that. But they very fact that McDermott did turn it around so effectively justifies his sacking to my mind. As I said, we show loyalty and patience to a point, but when relegation is threatening we take decisive action. Some times that action may be debateable, but that's not a bad approach to take.

.

I'd suggest you've missed the point Ian. I'm addressing the notion that somehow we've suddenly become a far more ruthless club that shows no loyalty or respect for previous service. By using examples of decisions made by previous chairman to managers who had done an awful lot for this club previously I'm showing that when need be, as a club in my lifetime we've never let loyalty get in the way.

I guess the main difference between Rodgers and Evans/McD was that he hadn't achieved promotion as a manager. Doesn't alter the fact that the previous good work he'd done for the club didn't save him from the sack. Ditto Evans and McDermott. The club felt the time was right for a mangerial change and that was that.

[Ian Royal]

Fair enough, I think that's then a different point to the one I was making, which is that in comparison to a lot of other club's we give managers more leeway in performance and time.

I certainly wouldn't want us to stick with a longserving manager just because they'd done good things in the past if it was all going wrong in the present. Some times the damage can be accepted as short term and a second chance can be allowed. But we've rarely been in that position over the last 20 years thanks to our great performance.

Would we sack a manager for finishing 8th - 14th two seasons in a row? We've not really been in the position to find out.