BFTG Forest

[P!ssed Off]

This post was made by Avon Royal who is currently on your ignore list. Display this post.

[Millsy]

Yes and no.

I was an Adkins fan and I'm beginning to lose hope in his ability to make the best of a bad situation to be honest. The "replace with who?" question is actually always valid, but as you say there are many alternatives so you're partly right. The big issue here though is that whilst Adkins may be a bit crap at getting a bad side playing well that's NOT the main reason we're so awful. The main obvious reason staring everyone in the face - which many of us clearly raised alarm bells about in the summer and have now sadly proven to be 100% right about to the hopeful crushing humiliation of club defenders - is the massive ownership problems meaning all of a sudden planned transfers didn't happen and whilst we did have a fairly good quality squad it was deficient in the same key areas we'd be screaming about for over a year. It's analagous to building a very good quality Ferrari then all of a sudden running out of money, unable to buy the final few parts needed to make it run. Without those parts it's useless no matter how high quality the rest of it is. That's the HUGE problem here and whilst I concede that yes a Parky or even a Brian (or dare I say it even a Di Canio) might be able to make the best out of the current situation and maybe even get us up only to be bravely relegated again, it won't address the underlying issue of club ownership, stability and adequate balanced investment. THAT needs to be sorted first and foremost and my guess is that IF AND WHEN we get to the point where we suddenly have healthy investment potential again Adkins will be the man for the long term job that we need (even though I'm losing faith with Adkins' ability in the current situation), not some quick-fix-charlie who is great on a shoestring budget and a tight situation but no good for the longterm.

So changing manager is daft in my opinion UNLESS we can't see the ownership problem resolving in the next year or two in which case I'd definitely say yes let's accept we'll continue to be a financially struggling team and adjust accordingly, saying goodbye to a man who just doesn't fit our circumstances.

As you've said you haven't even been to a match in oxf*rd ages.
Go to a game for yourself and just see how tragically Adkins' team are performing.

Did you even read what I wrote!?

By the looks of it, if I did go I'd be incensed at what I saw and my emotions would knee-jerk an Adkins-Out attitude.

Good thing I don't go as often then (I do suffer, but just not as often) as I can perhaps see things more calmly. And it's interesting that I made the correct call to go less, BEFORE we started playing badly. I could see that something was very wrong in the summer (despite the 'reassurances' of HNAmongs), and that it'd only be a matter of time before we struggled: no reflection on Adkins, but a reflection on the club.

I'm not stupid and I can see how badly we seem to be performing, which is why I'm saying I'm not as much of a fan of his as I was and don't think he is the best at getting a struggling team out of such a situation.

But as I say, have a slow read of what I write and hopefully you'll understand what I'm trying to say. It's not very hard to understand, honest.

I know you're angry, and I would be too if I had to endure that sh*t as often as you presumably do, but knee-jerking isn't the answer just yet for the reasons I point out.

[Millsy]

Genuine question:

Under Brian I remember we were a play-when-losing team. We often were rubbish, got to the obligatory 2-0 down then decided we might as well give it a go and started playing more riskily. Sometimes it paid off with good goals, sometimes it didn't. A risk worth taking with nothing to lose. Whilst I'm still gutted over the Brian sacking I understand that was no strategy.

I thankfully didn't go to this match but was this the same sort of scenario? i.e. did we play rubbish then decide to simply throw caution to the wind and attack thereby possibly leaving ourselves very open in the same clueless "well we're going to lose anyway so why not?" manner? Or was it more a case of we got stuck in and actually played some sound secure yet attacking football

If the former, we have problems.

If the latter, there's hope.

TBF to Adkins he made 2 subs with 30 mins to go to try & change the game & it did help. But in answer to your question I've no fcuking idea..

Ok fair enough thanks.

[Millsy]

Genuine question:

Under Brian I remember we were a play-when-losing team. We often were rubbish, got to the obligatory 2-0 down then decided we might as well give it a go and started playing more riskily. Sometimes it paid off with good goals, sometimes it didn't. A risk worth taking with nothing to lose. Whilst I'm still gutted over the Brian sacking I understand that was no strategy.

I thankfully didn't go to this match but was this the same sort of scenario? i.e. did we play rubbish then decide to simply throw caution to the wind and attack thereby possibly leaving ourselves very open in the same clueless "well we're going to lose anyway so why not?" manner? Or was it more a case of we got stuck in and actually played some sound secure yet attacking football

If the former, we have problems.

If the latter, there's hope.

Yes, it was most certainly the former.
Williams ended up on the right wing, Blackman at left back.
Pearce was the equivalent of an American Football Quarter Back, just slinging it in to their half.

It was the same against Wigan, where I think we ended the match with about 6 wingers on the pitch.
Adkins might claim credit for the substitutions, but it certainly wasn't his brand of football that won us a point.

Ok that's interesting thanks PO.

[P!ssed Off]

Did you even read what I wrote!?

By the looks of it, if I did go I'd be incensed at what I saw and my emotions would knee-jerk an Adkins-Out attitude.

Good thing I don't go as often then (I do suffer, but just not as often) as I can perhaps see things more calmly. And it's interesting that I made the correct call to go less, BEFORE we started playing badly. I could see that something was very wrong in the summer (despite the 'reassurances' of HNAmongs), and that it'd only be a matter of time before we struggled: no reflection on Adkins, but a reflection on the club.

I'm not stupid and I can see how badly we seem to be performing, which is why I'm saying I'm not as much of a fan of his as I was and don't think he is the best at getting a struggling team out of such a situation.

But as I say, have a slow read of what I write and hopefully you'll understand what I'm trying to say. It's not very hard to understand, honest.

I know you're angry, and I would be too if I had to endure that sh*t as often as you presumably do, but knee-jerking isn't the answer just yet for the reasons I point out.

Yes I read your post.
You didn't seem to quite grasp the severity of how horrendous we've been performing of late.
It's possible that ownership problems might have an impact on performances, but not by this much.

[3points]

I said 1st half was a dead heat (which IMO it was). They were better than us 2nd half but right at the death we came back at them. To suggest they are the best team to visit us this season is weird IMO. They weren't that good at all & looked marginally less toothless than we did.

I'm with you on this one MonsterMunch. We weren't good first half, but apart from the goal, I didn't think they looked much either. Thought they looked like us a lot - playing the ball around aimlessly with little penetration. Did they have a shot other than the goal in the first half? Very little creativity. Second half was a different matter. We just got worse and our midfield (read Guthrie) just went missing.

Thought McCarthy's kicking (with one exception) was OK today and about the best its been. Interestingly though he kicked everything off the deck - the one that went into the East Stand was from his hands. Think he may benefit from a change in GK coach as clearly Bibbo isn't making his style of kicking work for Alex.

Gunter did well at CB. His made a few interceptions which probably looked really routine but his pace made it look simple. If it has been Gorkss or Pearce then there could have been dangerous positions develop. Pearce is like watching a tragedy unfold - he is so uncomfortable on the ball.

Hopefully that was Sharp's last game for us today. Just too slow. ALF clearly wants out, but he's a cheaper option than signing Sharp.

Guthrie and Williams just isn't working. We need a midfield hard man to win us the ball - someone like Rodolph Austin at Leeds. Guthrie is too slow, is always half a yard behind his man and therefore never in a position to tackle (or gets booked).

[OldBiscuit]

Home against Bolton: win or you're out Nigel.

Oh really? Do you have some authority or influence? or just silly boy that got a laptop for Christmas?

[Barry the bird boggler]

Until NA is backed by the board in what he wants to do here there is little point in having a go at him. We need to wait until the mess that is masquerading as ownership gets sorted and hopefully then we'll see things start to develop as he is expecting.

[leon]

Forest could/should have scored another two. Derbyshire missing two sitters.

Strangely I thought they weren't that good - however second half they just played through us - the number 7 stood out. Which shows how poor we were. They gave up with 10 minutes to go and let us back in. Bizarrely for the players we have we are incapable of playing with any tempo, creativity or pace and again it's the midfield that's the problem. Guthrie slows play down and then goes missing (leaving Pearce to play balls into the box) McCleary is poor offering practically nothing and Williams - well I don't know what Williams strengths are.

The fact that we had our first shot on target after about 70 minutes and that Blackman was our best player says it all. Even with the injuries we keep hearing about this team is far better than the performances this season. It was clueless. We are getting worse not better.

[leon]

Until NA is backed by the board in what he wants to do here there is little point in having a go at him. We need to wait until the mess that is masquerading as ownership gets sorted and hopefully then we'll see things start to develop as he is expecting.

disagree - this is all about Adkins. He sets the team up and tells them what to do. They looked like they didn't have a clue this afternoon.

[3points]

Strangely I thought they weren't that good - however second half they just played through us - the number 7 stood out. Which shows how poor we were.

Agreed. Thought they were quite pedestrian in their build up play.- Interestingly we got back into the game once they substituted Chaleobah (no 7). Lansbury was also a much better player than Guthrie.

[paddy20]

Think It shows that when we abandon the game plan, i.e last 25 against Wigan and last 10 mins today we actually look dangerous. Why don't the players have the guts to tell Adkins where to put his idealistic ideas of how to play premiership football in the championship and just go out and attack. If we started like that most games we would be 2 up by half time then we can play Adkins boring, passing back game with no problem.

[Elm Park Old Boy]

It's hard to remember a time when we have looked so lacking in pace, energy and spirit. There has been a dialogue of the deaf on this board all season, with a false contrast posed between the supposed 'hoof ball' of McDermott's teams and the supposed more cultured passing game sought by Adkins.

The truth is that McD's Reading were not really simply hoof merchants, and Adkins' Reading is sadly a long way from an effective passing style. We've lost the energy and directness that made us effective (and often exciting to watch), but it has not been replaced with an effective alternative. The team is playing without conviction and doing everything too slowly, making it easy for the opposition to close down the little attacking we attempt.

I think the McDermott or Adkins 'debate' is pointless (for the record, I think we should not have sacked Brian, and I firmly believe he would currently be getting more out of the squad we have - but he's gone and I desperately want Adkins to succeed). But this group of players should be doing better than they currently are. The feebleness of the performances of players like McCleary, Sharp and Guthrie today was very worrying.

[MmmMonsterMunch]

Think It shows that when we abandon the game plan, i.e last 25 against Wigan and last 10 mins today we actually look dangerous. Why don't the players have the guts to tell Adkins where to put his idealistic ideas of how to play premiership football in the championship and just go out and attack. If we started like that most games we would be 2 up by half time then we can play Adkins boring, passing back game with no problem.

Comments like this are very annoying. When it goes wrong = Adkins, if it goes right = "abandoning Adkins' tactics"

Damned either way isn't he really because some can't face the reality that a lot of our players ain't that good. And some of the good ones are injured.

[Avon Royal]

Think It shows that when we abandon the game plan, i.e last 25 against Wigan and last 10 mins today we actually look dangerous. Why don't the players have the guts to tell Adkins where to put his idealistic ideas of how to play premiership football in the championship and just go out and attack. If we started like that most games we would be 2 up by half time then we can play Adkins boring, passing back game with no problem.

Football Manager has a lot to answer for.

[Westwood52]

They need to play like that for more than 10 minutes, but they've shown they can do it and we (somehow) came away with a point. There are positives but they're few and far between - they really were dire for 80 minutes.

Nice to see Niall Keown given a run for the final 8 minutes or so. Can't remember him doing anything of note but good to get one of our youngsters involved.

Err Keown ???

Back to the game.

Utter Utter Shite

Adkins has not got a clue.
Funny that in two home games the proverbial kitchen sink comes out and we score.
Play to his tactics and we are utter, utter rubbish.

Manager got out of gaol with the last minute "undeserved" equaliser

ADKINS OUT

It was Taylor wasn't it ? Although I hav'nt seen him in a Reading shirt for a couple of seasons now.

[Royal Dee]

Think It shows that when we abandon the game plan, i.e last 25 against Wigan and last 10 mins today we actually look dangerous. Why don't the players have the guts to tell Adkins where to put his idealistic ideas of how to play premiership football in the championship and just go out and attack. If we started like that most games we would be 2 up by half time then we can play Adkins boring, passing back game with no problem.

Comments like this are very annoying. When it goes wrong = Adkins, if it goes right = "abandoning Adkins' tactics"

Damned either way isn't he really because some can't face the reality that a lot of our players ain't that good. And some of the good ones are injured.

Surely as a manager you should be playing tactics around the strength of the squad of players you have. In his own words "its about winning games of football", so lets play the style of football that will get the best out of this lot rather than try to do something we cant do and loose. Management 101- you cant build a Ferrari in a boat factory, but that's no reason not to build a boat.

[MmmMonsterMunch]

What are the strengths of this team now then?

We no longer have any aerial threat, we don't have a bruising CM ala Ledge who can clear up the mess. In addition we don't have vintage Kebe or Jobi to put good crosses in / take a man on either.

Many of the strengths we may have had in Brian's era we don't have now...

[Royal Dee]

What are the strengths of this team now then?

We no longer have any aerial threat, we don't have a bruising CM ala Ledge who can clear up the mess. In addition we don't have vintage Kebe or Jobi to put good crosses in / take a man on either.

Many of the strengths we may have had in Brian's era we don't have now...

Jobi is still here and has been for a lot of the season, McCleary is a very good winger, and Drenthe (He has a very good cross on him and I know hes not as good as kebe but given time I think he can be better). So if we encouraged them to play fast free flowing football down the wings and get crosses in early we might give our self's a better chance. We simply don't do this under Adkins, even though its been a major part of our game for the last 10 years under Sir Steve and Brian. We have a decent forward line for the championship provided they get the service but they dont.I agree with you that our CM is not great but that's down to that fact that we only have 1 plan in midfield and that is to pass it to Guthrie who slows everything down then we pass it backwards which then in turn results it being hoofed by Pearce of McCarthy.

[Sanguine]

Pearce was fine whenever he had someone to pass to. He had trouble whenever he didn't have someone to pass to.

I've been saying this since the start of the season - and I'm beginning to see/agree/suspect that Adkins should be taking some of the blame here, but we are static, unimaginative and totally useless when we have the ball. We have some players who are technically very good, and yet when we have the ball rarely does a player have one realistic pass on, nevermind two.

Improve our movement, play 'between the lines' and our performances would improve over night.