Are we better off without Guthrie starting?

[The Real Sandhurst Royal]

Never rated Guthrie, gives the ball away too much and slows the play down.

His injury should have happened earlier as we would be a a few points better off.

[Millsy]

Interesting how this went from only 38% saying we should drop him to 54% after Boltonrape.

[Snowball]

Didn't Brian drop Guthrie because, though he was a VG player he slowed things down too much?

[Avon Royal]

For me the issue isn't as clear cut as just play Guthrie or not. The strength of the Williams / Akpan partnership is also a factor.

[MmmMonsterMunch]

I'm honestly not sure on this. We would have been bloody awful without him for the first 2 months of the season. He was phenomenal.

[Sanguine]

Yes - get rid. Midfield worked for the first time this season.

The midfield worked when we played Watford at home.

[leon]

Yes - get rid. Midfield worked for the first time this season.

The midfield worked when we played Watford at home.

well yes for the first half. It then capitulated during second the half to blow 2-0 and 3-1 leads. Games tend to last longer than 45 minutes, however.

And that was 24 games ago. Yes 24.

[andrew1957]

Some of the comments on this thread are a bit unfair on Guthrie. At the start of the season he was playing well. I think this is because he combined well with Karacan. Then Karacan got injured but he also played quite well with Baird. Both these players held midfield together and gave him a freer role. Then Baird got injured and the Guthrie Williams partnership just does not work.

So for now he has to be dropped because Williams/Akpan looks a lot more complementary so far - but that does not mean he will not have an important role to play later in the season - particularly if Baird gets re-signed or we do (unlikely I know) buy someone else.

Why do most on here see players as either heroes or villains. Akpan has gone from zero to hero in just two games it seems. Ridiculous knee jerk Hobnob.

[leon]

Some of the comments on this thread are a bit unfair on Guthrie. At the start of the season he was playing well. I think this is because he combined well with Karacan. Then Karacan got injured but he also played quite well with Baird. Both these players held midfield together and gave him a freer role. Then Baird got injured and the Guthrie Williams partnership just does not work.

So for now he has to be dropped because Williams/Akpan looks a lot more complementary so far - but that does not mean he will not have an important role to play later in the season - particularly if Baird gets re-signed or we do (unlikely I know) buy someone else.

Why do most on here see players as either heroes or villains. Akpan has gone from zero to hero in just two games it seems. Ridiculous knee jerk Hobnob.

Fair point about Karacan - however we've been creating fuck all chances all season and Baird really didn't make a great deal of difference in terms of defensive coverage. So alas, it's a bit more fundamental than injuries.

Akpan played very well yesterday. I understand he played well at Watford, good. We need people to step up to the plate. I haven't rated Danny Williams so far this season but he was excellent yesterday. That partnership has done well so far so we should leave it and see what happens. I know it looked better balanced than any midfield we've put out so far this season.

[marlowuk]

The Guthrie problem is an interesting one. He is, I think, one of our 'best' players. After 3 months or so he seemed nailed on for POTS. But - it seems - things have changed. We are now playing a faster, more ball-to-feet game than before. So will Guthrie add to this new-found game-plan or not?

Yes - He is clearly an intelligent player. He receives the ball, looks around, assesses the situation and then releases the ball before moving into a position to receive the ball back if necessary. This is good and shows an eagerness to have the ball rather than being afraid of it.

No - He slows play down by having to look around to find his colleagues. He should know instinctively where they are and release the ball earlier.

Yes - Playing the ball to feet (rather than playing hoof-ball) is Guthrie's style. He will fit in well and adapt to this game even when played at a faster pace than previously.

No - Williams and Akpan have forged a good understanding in central midfield which is the engine room of any team. It would be suicide to change that.

Yes - Guthrie is a class act with premier league experience.

No - He is not a team player and can disrupt team morale by shouting at and criticising his team-mates performances during a match.

So what is the answer?

Williams and Akpan have done so well together in the last two games that it would be unfair in the extreme to drop either of them. It is up to Guthrie to win his place back and, so long as the team continue to succeed, that is not, I hope, going to happen. However, he remains a powerful option should things start to go pear-shaped for us and I think he could and would adapt his game accordingly. I do not think that his exclusion is the reason we are now winning games in such an entertaining way.

[Cripple Creek]

It's a grey area. Some days I think yes and, others, no. Then there are times when I think indubitably.

[Vision]

Playing with midfielders who are fit >>>>> Playing with midfielders carrying injuries.

[Sanguine]

The Guthrie problem is an interesting one. He is, I think, one of our 'best' players. After 3 months or so he seemed nailed on for POTS. But - it seems - things have changed. We are now playing a faster, more ball-to-feet game than before. So will Guthrie add to this new-found game-plan or not?

Yes - He is clearly an intelligent player. He receives the ball, looks around, assesses the situation and then releases the ball before moving into a position to receive the ball back if necessary. This is good and shows an eagerness to have the ball rather than being afraid of it.

No - He slows play down by having to look around to find his colleagues. He should know instinctively where they are and release the ball earlier.

Yes - Playing the ball to feet (rather than playing hoof-ball) is Guthrie's style. He will fit in well and adapt to this game even when played at a faster pace than previously.

No - Williams and Akpan have forged a good understanding in central midfield which is the engine room of any team. It would be suicide to change that.

Yes - Guthrie is a class act with premier league experience.

No - He is not a team player and can disrupt team morale by shouting at and criticising his team-mates performances during a match.

So what is the answer?

Williams and Akpan have done so well together in the last two games that it would be unfair in the extreme to drop either of them. It is up to Guthrie to win his place back and, so long as the team continue to succeed, that is not, I hope, going to happen. However, he remains a powerful option should things start to go pear-shaped for us and I think he could and would adapt his game accordingly. I do not think that his exclusion is the reason we are now winning games in such an entertaining way.

Good post, sums it up well.

[Royalwaster]

Think he can only play when we play with one up front .... possibly in tougher games than the last 2 .... with Williams and Akpan doing more of the dirty work.
But in that case we need our wingers to play more of an attacking role because Pog up front can't do it on his own. I think the big difference in the last 2 games has been that Guthrie is not strong or tall enough to dominate the midfield ... I do still think though that technically he is far superior to Akpan and others including Williams.

[AkpansBFF]

Been doing a lot better these last 2 games, so if he wants to be back in I'd expect Nigel to make him work for an opportunity.

[Extended-Phenotype]

No point playing Guthrie if we don't have a workhorse CDM as his partner in midfield.

Get him to play a bit faster and further up the pitch where the pressure will force his pass, and we've still got a decent player on our hands who gives us options.

Not ready to chuck him because Hope Akpan had one good game. Seem to remember Guthrie having more than one good game at the start of the season. Fickle little Reading fans can only remember the last f/cking match. Akpan fluffs his lines next Saturday and it will be "dur, duuuur - Akpan sux lol"

All good players, just they all dip in and out of form.

[floyd__streete]

For me the issue isn't as clear cut as just play Guthrie or not. The strength of the Williams / Akpan partnership is also a factor.

Yeah thanks for that

Next week, Avon Royal discusses when best to deploy an umbrella: "Whether or not it is raining at the time is also a factor".

[Avon Royal]

For me the issue isn't as clear cut as just play Guthrie or not. The strength of the Williams / Akpan partnership is also a factor.

Yeah thanks for that

Next week, Avon Royal discusses when best to deploy an umbrella: "Whether or not it is raining at the time is also a factor".

You really do try so hard.

[Hoop Blah]

Lets not get carried away here. Without Guthrie we've beated a Watford team that had only won once in over a dozen games and a Bolton team that are hovering above the relegation places and fell apart all too easily.

Akpan and Williams had good games, more so Williams, but they've still got a long way to go in order to show they've got the quality and consistency required to help this team improve (as it plainly needs to). Guthrie too needs to show that he can recapture the form that made him look a cut above the division when he too found himself in effective partnerships, and if he doesn't do that then his place back in the side will be under threat.

Remember how good Williams looked against, IIRC, Charlton, before he went off injured and then how lacklustre he's looked since, and how Akpan has had some good moments scattered amongst his largely very average performances and I think Guthrie is still the main man if fit and on form.

The biggest difference for me on Saturday wasn't that we got the ball forward earlier, played more direct or with more width, it just looked like the players were more up for it. As someone else mentioned, perhaps it's because the transfer window has opened, or perhaps it's because there's new money on the way in. Whatever it was they worked harder for each other and that was the key for me, not Hope Akpan or Danny Williams suddenly turning into Steve Sidwell and James Harper for the day.

[The Quiet Man]

I think we are back to when we had Brian Howard a few years back. On his day he could run a midfield and had a good of passing but his day was fairly infrequent as he didn't quite have the legs to get around the pitch. Guthrie whilst being a better passer than Howard seems to suffer similar problems in stamina and ability to close down his opposing player. He is a poor tackler judging by his yellow card count most of which are for silly fouls. He's got a place in the team if we wish to go with five in midfield and he doesn't really have to graft or if we wish to go with a narrow four without wingers. He's still an option off the bench but I wouldn't miss the Hollywood 30 yarders that don't quite reach and the attitude towards his fellow players. A lot of people said McD didn't play him because of system but I felt at the time having seen him play that a lot of the time he was just poor and uninterested and didn't work hard enough. Bluntly I'd remember Akpan's pass to Le Fondre against Chelsea before any pass that Guthrie has produced to date.