The Academy/Development squads watch thread 2024/25

[NewCorkSeth]

What is really pleasing to see is so many of these U21's pushing for a chance in the first-team. OK, realistically it'll be next season at the earliest, but to have five (and that's only in my opinion) impressing so much this season, to add to McCarthy and Obita breaking through, is fantastic to see!

Gozie Ugwu
Craig Tanner
Aaron Tshibola
Aaron Kuhl
Michael Hector

Also excited but they've all got work to do on loan spells before we can get too carried away.

Hector's already shown what he can do but Tanner, Kuhl and Tshibola are totally untested so need to make that step over the next couple of seasons.

Ugwu always seems to have bright starts then fade away wherever he goes. I'm hoping that most of that has been down to niggly injuries but at this point he's still more Bignall than Long

Agree to a point, but wonder how motivated the club are to send the likes of Tanner out on loan. Loan spells in the loser leagues aren't necessarily the best option for the development of all younger players, and given that there would be no shortage of takers for our better younger players it does seem that we think they're better off staying in and around the club, training with better players abd coaches rather thank getting kicked around a muddy pitch by conference players.

Short term loan deals, say no more than half a season, or reveiw their progress in January with a recall option?

[Wimb]

Unless you're very,very special, few players ever make the team on a consistent basis without a loan spell. There'a a massive jump from playing against fellow 18-21 year olds on a training ground with little on the line to being thrown into a key Championship clash.

Having players go out on loan has long proved succesful for the club, McCarthy went to Yeovil and Brentford, Pearce to Bournemouth, Northampton, Southampton, Karacan to Millwall, Gylfi went to Shrewsbury and Crewe while Jordan Obita has done time at Barnet, Gillingham, Oldham and Portsmouth.

Sure you may get the odd exception like Shane Long but it took Long a good 4 years as a regular sub to firmly nail down a week-in-week-out starting place.

I'd love to see players just come right through from the Academy but realistically it's not going to happen.

[maffff]

Just to counter that - the way the u21 league is set up we're getting good opportunities for our youth players to be on the pitch with some seasoned pros..

But yes, experience would help. But how much benefit will a loan to Bognor Regis Town do?

[Ginger Ninjas]

Unless you're very,very special, few players ever make the team on a consistent basis without a loan spell. There'a a massive jump from playing against fellow 18-21 year olds on a training ground with little on the line to being thrown into a key Championship clash.

Having players go out on loan has long proved succesful for the club, McCarthy went to Yeovil and Brentford, Pearce to Bournemouth, Northampton, Southampton, Karacan to Millwall, Gylfi went to Shrewsbury and Crewe while Jordan Obita has done time at Barnet, Gillingham, Oldham and Portsmouth.

Sure you may get the odd exception like Shane Long but it took Long a good 4 years as a regular sub to firmly nail down a week-in-week-out starting place.

I'd love to see players just come right through from the Academy but realistically it's not going to happen.

Just to counter this... Possibly the country's best academy (Southampton) seem more than happy to chuck youngsters into the first team, whether that was when they were in L1, Championship or PL. A quick scan on Wikipedia shows that Bale, Shaw and Ward-Prowse never played on loan for anyone; Lallana had a mere three games at Bournemouth. If the club/manager really believe that they're good enough, then I think we should expose them to the first team at a young age.

[Wimb]

Just to counter that - the way the u21 league is set up we're getting good opportunities for our youth players to be on the pitch with some seasoned pros..

But yes, experience would help. But how much benefit will a loan to Bognor Regis Town do?

Not many seasoned pros are actually playing in the competition though are they? The odd one or two but again players returning from injury or very much out of favour.

I think the U21 League is a good idea I just think there's a big step up from youth football to top end Championship/PL football and our recent history has shown that.

I don't really see much point in going to Bognor if you're 20, 21 but if you're 17 or 18 a bit of 'work experience' like Shepp has done this season can't do you any harm. It teaches you how to deal with bad pitches, bigger players and helps ground youngsters to go and play with players that don't make a full living in the game. It's an educational experience as much as a footballing one.

[

Just to counter this... Possibly the country's best academy (Southampton) seem more than happy to chuck youngsters into the first team, whether that was when they were in L1, Championship or PL. A quick scan on Wikipedia shows that Bale, Shaw and Ward-Prowse never played on loan for anyone; Lallana had a mere three games at Bournemouth. If the club/manager really believe that they're good enough, then I think we should expose them to the first team at a young age.

The players you've mentioned are exactly what I've said, very special players. Bale is the World's most expensive player, Shaw is being touted as a £25m target for Manchester United and Ward-Prowse isn't far behind. Look at what ages they made their debuts, Shaw (17), Bale (16), Ward-Prowse (16) they are the exceptions rather than the norm. Lallana may have only had a few games at Bournemouth but he was then blooded in League One at Southampton.

Obviously if you're going to be that good play whenever (see Rooney/Owen) but right now it doesn't look like we've got that many of that kind of amazingly naturally gifted players that will just play straight away. I'd absolutely love to see Kuhl or Tanner come straight into the side and tear up the league, I'm just suggesting that such a prospect is very unlikely and that you should expect to see them loaned before they start being a squad regular.

[Ian Royal]

I think we'll keep up the loan procedure, but now we've got Cat One we'll probably keep them around a bit longer and be more choosy about where they go. We're going to want them brought up in our ethos and with 8ur quality of coaching at their most crucial development stage.

Those who are special can then break through straight into the ffirst team and those who aren't as exceptional can go out on loan to decent level non-clogger clubs at around 19 / 20 / 21. Central midfielders are going to be the most important for getting our training longest and going out to the right sort of teams as well. If we want to develop a more cultured play style like the youth. By contrast I think CBs might actually benefit from getting into the physical hurly burly of non-league.

[Wimb]

I think we'll keep up the loan procedure, but now we've got Cat One we'll probably keep them around a bit longer and be more choosy about where they go. We're going to want them brought up in our ethos and with 8ur quality of coaching at their most crucial development stage.

Those who are special can then break through straight into the ffirst team and those who aren't as exceptional can go out on loan to decent level non-clogger clubs at around 19 / 20 / 21. Central midfielders are going to be the most important for getting our training longest and going out to the right sort of teams as well. If we want to develop a more cultured play style like the youth. By contrast I think CBs might actually benefit from getting into the physical hurly burly of non-league.

I think that's fair Ian,

Though aren't coaches now arguing that the most crucial time for development is 8-14 or something like that? Might be totally making that up mind you!

[Ian Royal]

In terms of basic skills and chances of making it professionally I think that's right wimb. I was thinking more of the final touches to their development in terms of importance. We've often seen very promising players fail as they hit they're 20s. Maybe I'm thinking more mental and temperamental than actual playing ability.

[P!ssed Off]

Just to counter that - the way the u21 league is set up we're getting good opportunities for our youth players to be on the pitch with some seasoned pros..

But yes, experience would help. But how much benefit will a loan to Bognor Regis Town do?

Not many seasoned pros are actually playing in the competition though are they? The odd one or two but again players returning from injury or very much out of favour.

I think the U21 League is a good idea I just think there's a big step up from youth football to top end Championship/PL football and our recent history has shown that.

I don't really see much point in going to Bognor if you're 20, 21 but if you're 17 or 18 a bit of 'work experience' like Shepp has done this season can't do you any harm. It teaches you how to deal with bad pitches, bigger players and helps ground youngsters to go and play with players that don't make a full living in the game. It's an educational experience as much as a footballing one.

[

Just to counter this... Possibly the country's best academy (Southampton) seem more than happy to chuck youngsters into the first team, whether that was when they were in L1, Championship or PL. A quick scan on Wikipedia shows that Bale, Shaw and Ward-Prowse never played on loan for anyone; Lallana had a mere three games at Bournemouth. If the club/manager really believe that they're good enough, then I think we should expose them to the first team at a young age.

The players you've mentioned are exactly what I've said, very special players. Bale is the World's most expensive player, Shaw is being touted as a £25m target for Manchester United and Ward-Prowse isn't far behind. Look at what ages they made their debuts, Shaw (17), Bale (16), Ward-Prowse (16) they are the exceptions rather than the norm. Lallana may have only had a few games at Bournemouth but he was then blooded in League One at Southampton.

Obviously if you're going to be that good play whenever (see Rooney/Owen) but right now it doesn't look like we've got that many of that kind of amazingly naturally gifted players that will just play straight away. I'd absolutely love to see Kuhl or Tanner come straight into the side and tear up the league, I'm just suggesting that such a prospect is very unlikely and that you should expect to see them loaned before they start being a squad regular.

Agree with most of what you've said but Lallana was not blooded in at League 1.
In his first season in League 1 he scored 15 goals in 44 league games. He was already a regular having played 40 league games (34 starts) the season before in the Championship.

Personally I would like England to follow the Italian route of a maximum of 12 subs. But with the provision that 7 subs (or however many) must be home grown from that club. In a normal game situation the youngsters on the bench might only be there for the experience. But if you're up 3 or more goals, as has been the case a few times recently, there's no reason why you shouldn't stick a couple of youngsters on.

[NewCorkSeth]

What Wimb has said is well thought out and put forward. Perhaps increasing the number of homegrown players(trained at the club for 3 or more years before the age of 21) a team must have on the bench (lets say 3 out of 7) would be a good starting point to force clubs to develop players? Obviously there would be massive problem bringing it in but imagine the advantage Reading would have!

I know the russian league has a similar if more extreme version of what I am suggesting and their league seems to be stagnating along with their national team, but it would certainly (if applied to the championship) assist the development

[Ginger Ninjas]

Just to counter this... Possibly the country's best academy (Southampton) seem more than happy to chuck youngsters into the first team, whether that was when they were in L1, Championship or PL. A quick scan on Wikipedia shows that Bale, Shaw and Ward-Prowse never played on loan for anyone; Lallana had a mere three games at Bournemouth. If the club/manager really believe that they're good enough, then I think we should expose them to the first team at a young age.

The players you've mentioned are exactly what I've said, very special players. Bale is the World's most expensive player, Shaw is being touted as a £25m target for Manchester United and Ward-Prowse isn't far behind. Look at what ages they made their debuts, Shaw (17), Bale (16), Ward-Prowse (16) they are the exceptions rather than the norm. Lallana may have only had a few games at Bournemouth but he was then blooded in League One at Southampton.

Obviously if you're going to be that good play whenever (see Rooney/Owen) but right now it doesn't look like we've got that many of that kind of amazingly naturally gifted players that will just play straight away. I'd absolutely love to see Kuhl or Tanner come straight into the side and tear up the league, I'm just suggesting that such a prospect is very unlikely and that you should expect to see them loaned before they start being a squad regular.

I take your point, but there are other examples even within their squad... Chambers has played a dozen or so matches (debut at 18) without any loans. Clyne, when he was at Palace, was playing regularly at 17/18, again without loans. We do seem to be very cautious when introducing players to the first team. It was 4 years ago when Obita first came to any kind of prominence, playing for England U18 and being touted by Sir Trevor of Brooking as a potential England star - I think other clubs would have given him more exposure to the first team at a younger age.

Who's to say which is the right approach in then end? I guess it comes down to an individual basis, and you couldn't prove either way that Obita would have been better off not having the loans but making a handful of appearances for the first team instead.

[ZacNaloen]

On Obita, not using this as a stick to beat him, but Mcdermott was quite conservative when it came to starting youth young. Obita shone in two pre-seasons, fought his way onto the bench and was then dropped two seasons in a row. I know he was young and he shouldn't have been regularly playing yet, but I do believe he could have got more exposure. As he obviously a player of great ability.

[KDRF]

I do feel that this is where Adkins shows some promise for me, he has shown at southampton he likes to play the youth and here as well you can already see he looking towards it. The fact that Obita, Hector and Taylor have been in and around the team lately, you wouldnt have seen that with McDermott. If we don't go up next season (which I dont expect us to) I would solidly expect Legs to leave, Guthrie to go, keep Williams Akpan and hopefully Karacan and then have the likes of Taylor and Kuhl pushing for placing and looking to take there chances when injuries occur.

On a similar note, we could expect to see Kuhl potentially on the bench for Wednesday if Akpan is still unfit and Guthrie isnt back in time.

[winchester_royal]

Wimb makes some good points, but I still question whether a loan move is always in the best interests of the development of younger players, especially those players who are more technical. For every Michael Hector, there's a younger player who has shown plenty of promise through the age groups but doesn't develop out on loan and regresses as his confidence takes a series of knocks. Jake Taylor is perhaps a good example of this, 3 years ago he was the next big thing and made a very impressive debut appearance off the bench at the end of McD's first season, but then got carted off to various clubs and it got to the point where last season he was struggling to get a game in League 2 with Cheltenham. Fast forward 6 months, and prolonged exposure to first team training, and he's beginning to once again show the promise that was evident back in 2010.

The loan system is definitely a fantastic tool for the development of certain younger players, but some may benefit more from working with better technical players while they continue to physically develop. Tanner is definitely one I consider this to be the case for. I'm not sure he has the physique to compete with grown men quite yet, and forcing him to do so may well cause irreparable damage to a player that I consider to be our brightest hope.

On that note... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sskO0_7WUDo&list=UU2q3yt0x2irVXrLfeGPv-IA

[PistolPete]

Enjoyed reading this discussion, however, that U21 clip made me realise just how far from first team football U21s is. Look at the start of the clip and the pressure on the ball. None! In fact, throughout that clip there is barely a single attempted tackle. Maybe that was just the state of the game at that moment...

[P!ssed Off]

There's no point people getting carried away over 'we should be copying Southampton team selections'.

Southampton's youth academy system is miles ahead of ours.
If we had an Oxlade-Chamberlain, Bale or Walcott (and not just Theo's shit cousin) in the academy we would be playing them.
Once we've been in the top flight for 27 seasons in a row, developed a top notch academy, with first class youth recruitment and then collapsed 2 divisions in quick succession...
Then you can complain "why aren't we copying Southampton?"

We've got a decent academy structure in place now, but we won't be attracting the top talent as things stand.
Once we get the reputation that enables us to attract the top local talent then it will still be another decade or so before that starts to pay dividends.
IMO we won't see a team full of Jordan Obita's until the next decade at the earliest.

[Royals and Racers]

The U18`s will know their FA youth cup 5th round opponents tonight when Accrington play Bristol city KO 7 pm.

[The Cube]

Accrington 1-0 up midway through the first half.

Edit: 2-0 up at half-time.

Further edit: 4-1 win for Accrington.

[Royals and Racers]

Accrington 1-0 up midway through the first half.

Edit: 2-0 up at half-time.

Final score 4-1 so it`s Reading v Accrington

[Loyal royal 247]

One for the future. Jake Cooper