by andrew1957 » 04 Mar 2014 16:38
by Ian Royal » 04 Mar 2014 17:46
PistolPetemelonheadfloyd__streete Excellent performance and fully deserved win. Very impressive, particularly Hector, Tanner and Kuhl. Hearterning stuff.
One downside was the poor goal we gave away which we almost replicated in the second half only to be saved by a goalpost. Our coaching staff should be telling our young players not to be over-playing on the edge of their 18 yard box!
theyre telling them totally the opposite though
At tho age they certainly should not be told to 'stop overplaying on the edge of the box'! It's that mentality that held (is still holding) England back.
by melonhead » 04 Mar 2014 17:51
PistolPetemelonheadfloyd__streete Excellent performance and fully deserved win. Very impressive, particularly Hector, Tanner and Kuhl. Hearterning stuff.
One downside was the poor goal we gave away which we almost replicated in the second half only to be saved by a goalpost. Our coaching staff should be telling our young players not to be over-playing on the edge of their 18 yard box!
theyre telling them totally the opposite though
At tho age they certainly should not be told to 'stop overplaying on the edge of the box'! It's that mentality that held (is still holding) England back.
by PistolPete » 04 Mar 2014 18:21
by sandman » 04 Mar 2014 18:46
by Ian Royal » 04 Mar 2014 18:48
sandman There's playing it around at the back and there is overplaying. Last night, especially in the early stages of the second half, they overplayed.
by P!ssed Off » 04 Mar 2014 19:01
sandman There's playing it around at the back and there is overplaying. Last night, especially in the early stages of the second half, they overplayed.
by glass half full » 04 Mar 2014 19:04
Ian Royalsandman There's playing it around at the back and there is overplaying. Last night, especially in the early stages of the second half, they overplayed.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------>Sandman
The Point
They're U21s learning the game. This is exactly the time the should be learning when it's overplaying and when it isn't and you do that by doing it and learning from you successes and mistakes.
by PistolPete » 04 Mar 2014 19:39
glass half fullIan Royalsandman There's playing it around at the back and there is overplaying. Last night, especially in the early stages of the second half, they overplayed.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------>Sandman
The Point
They're U21s learning the game. This is exactly the time the should be learning when it's overplaying and when it isn't and you do that by doing it and learning from you successes and mistakes.
+ 1
by Ian Royal » 04 Mar 2014 22:46
by TheLawnMowerMan » 04 Mar 2014 23:12
by P!ssed Off » 04 Mar 2014 23:29
Ian Royal Sandman and PO criticising the youth teams 'overplaying' it at the back shows exactly the sort of attitude that holds English football back - risk averse and totally focused on the result rather than the learning process, which is what youth football must be all about.
When all's said and done the results in youth football are utterly meaningless, so as Pete says, push the boundaries learn what you can and can't do and improve it. You only do that by trying to go beyond yourself and that often means making a mistake.
Follow the safe approach and you get a bunch of defenders who are uncomfortable on the ball and resort to hopeful hoofs up the pitch rather than playing around the opposition to create space and opportunities through the team.
Occasionally, even at the top level with the best players, it will result in conceding a foolish goal. But the benefits from it, if you're good at it, will far exceed that negative aspect of it. And if you aren't good at it, the chances of persisting with it at senior level are pretty slim so it isn't an issue.
by P!ssed Off » 04 Mar 2014 23:33
TheLawnMowerMan These days many elite sports talk of removing the fear of failure from participants minds - freeing them up to perform at their highest level without worrying about the consequences.
Saying that U-21s are over-playing in an U-21 match is missing the whole point of having competitive games at this level in the first place.
Yes, winning is great, but competing and learning is the main point. Making mistakes is a great way of learning as long as you are given the freedom to makes mistakes and learn from them without all the negatives that are a relic of old fashioned coaching methods.
by winchester_royal » 04 Mar 2014 23:38
by TheLawnMowerMan » 05 Mar 2014 00:08
P!ssed Off Yes, I'm suggesting that they are not learning.
by PistolPete » 05 Mar 2014 06:02
P!ssed OffIan Royal Sandman and PO criticising the youth teams 'overplaying' it at the back shows exactly the sort of attitude that holds English football back - risk averse and totally focused on the result rather than the learning process, which is what youth football must be all about.
When all's said and done the results in youth football are utterly meaningless, so as Pete says, push the boundaries learn what you can and can't do and improve it. You only do that by trying to go beyond yourself and that often means making a mistake.
Follow the safe approach and you get a bunch of defenders who are uncomfortable on the ball and resort to hopeful hoofs up the pitch rather than playing around the opposition to create space and opportunities through the team.
Occasionally, even at the top level with the best players, it will result in conceding a foolish goal. But the benefits from it, if you're good at it, will far exceed that negative aspect of it. And if you aren't good at it, the chances of persisting with it at senior level are pretty slim so it isn't an issue.
Sorry, but the U21s team this season has proved that the age of 18/19/20 is too late an age to turn a defender with no tekkers into a defender with unbelievable tekkers.
I was there at the 1st U21 league game of the season in early August and their playing it out of the back was leading to numerous clear cut chances for the opposition.
7 months later... Very little progress.
How long do you go before you give up with your "Keep trying until you can do it" approach.
Jake Cooper, a player who had a trial with Man Utd and has been involved with England, looks utterly shit due to our tactics.
I doubt Alex Pearce would have got anywhere near the 1st team if he'd been made to look a fool in the U21s each week.
Results in youth football are only utterly meaningless if 3/4 of the goals come through mistakes at the back, rather than actual good play.
Ian Royal & co. have got their blinkers on again, just as they did in regards to the 1st team earlier in the season.
So focused on the future "they'll be amazing at x eventually" that you not only brush off the fact that they are rubbish at doing x in the present, but you've failed to even consider that they've shown little to no progress in the considerable amount of time since they started.
by melonhead » 05 Mar 2014 10:44
P!ssed Offsandman There's playing it around at the back and there is overplaying. Last night, especially in the early stages of the second half, they overplayed.
Don't think Ian Royal's going to listen to you.
But of course you are indeed correct.
"They're young and learning" is not a great excuse. The U21 team has been prone to causally losing the ball at the back almost every time I've watched them this season.
It really does not appear that they are learning from their mistakes.
tbh the defence has consistently looked the weakest area of our youth teams.
I'm undecided if it's the risky tactics making the defence look bad, or the defence making the tactics look bad.
by floyd__streete » 05 Mar 2014 12:48
winchester_royal it is important that these defenders become comfortable with the ball at their feet otherwise they won't reach the very top, I don't agree with the idea that they should be playing it out regardless of the situation they find themselves in. Sometimes the right option will be the hit it long, and not only do the defenders need to be able to recognise that, but the strikers/midfielders also need to be able to learn how to offer themselves as an out-ball in these situations.
by PistolPete » 05 Mar 2014 15:01
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