Premier League 'B' Teams to join Pyramid?

[P!ssed Off]

Yeah come off it. Much like the FA and their plan you don't seem to be grasping the fact that you can't take the values of one football culture and apply it to another totally different one.
Real Madrid were established in 1902, Atletico not long after and Vallecano 1924 compared to Getafe, established in 1983. Doesn't matter about the population of Madrid or even the league they're in, you're looking at a club who are over half a century behind Vallecano never mind the level that the other two are at.
Luton established in the 1870's, only club in their location, the identity of their community and involved in a league structure that was largely built before Getafe were even an idea.
Let's look at Bury or Oldham, who have Man United and Man City in their area and a club like Bolton who are another established club with tradition. Their average according espn via a quick google is under 5,000 and they are clubs who have been established a lot longer than Getafe.
Same as snowball using stats as gospel rather than looking at the things that cause them.
Next P!ssed Off compares apples with oranges.

I'm not sure why you've got your knickers in such a twist about Getafe mate.
Luton was merely an example of how in our country you've got clubs way down the pyramid with larger support than teams at the top of most other European countries.

Getafe may well be half a century behind Rayo Vallecano. But Rayo Vallecano only average 10,000 in the top tier which is not very much either.

The point is that countries like Spain have so few clubs with a decent level of support. Therefore they can stick B teams in their lower structure, at the expense of how many lower league supporters? Very few is the answer.

Clubs within Greater Manchester:
Bolton (Tier 2) 16,140
Wigan (Tier 2) 15,176
Oldham (Tier 3) 4,415
Bury (Tier 4) 3,804
Rochdale (Tier 4) 2,900
Stockport County (Tier 6) 2,571
FC United (Tier 7) 1,922

I don't follow the young club, lack of tradition argument.
Wigan went from a club with very little history and low support, and then averaged an attendance of 20,000 in their first season in the Prem.
Getafe have been in La Liga for 10 years now. Rayo Vallecano are 90 years old. And they can't even muster a 20,000 attendance between them, in a city of 3 million.

[Platypuss]

[o basically, when the FL have inevitably rejected B teams in the lower league, they're going to create a new reserve league, for 'B' teams?
And how much money was spent making this report?

Yeah, because B teams is the only thing the report proposes.

You profess to be intelligent, and maybe even academic. Read the primary source yourself.

[P!ssed Off]

[So basically, when the FL have inevitably rejected B teams in the lower league, they're going to create a new reserve league, for 'B' teams?
And how much money was spent making this report?

Yeah, because B teams is the only thing the report proposes.

You profess to be intelligent, and maybe even academic. Read the primary source yourself.

Are you still upset that I claimed Adkins's physiotherapy degree from the University of Salford and a diploma in psychology was not satisfactory evidence that the man is a genius?
If so, time to move on.

I don't have the time or interest in reading a 70 page report.
B Teams was the only bit I felt strongly about, as long as that doesn't happen the FA can do what it wants.

[Platypuss]

[So basically, when the FL have inevitably rejected B teams in the lower league, they're going to create a new reserve league, for 'B' teams?
And how much money was spent making this report?

Yeah, because B teams is the only thing the report proposes.

You profess to be intelligent, and maybe even academic. Read the primary source yourself.

Are you still upset that I claimed Adkins's physiotherapy degree from the University of Salford and a diploma in psychology was not satisfactory evidence that the man is a genius?
If so, time to move on.

I don't have the time or interest in reading a 70 page report..

Was that you as well then?

Some of those 70 pages are just pretty pictures, so you should be OK.

[P!ssed Off]

Are you still upset that I claimed Adkins's physiotherapy degree from the University of Salford and a diploma in psychology was not satisfactory evidence that the man is a genius?
If so, time to move on.

I don't have the time or interest in reading a 70 page report..

Was that you as well then?

Some of those 70 pages are just pretty pictures, so you should be OK.

If it's the intellectual property of people like Danny Mills and Rio Ferdinand then I'm sure it can't be too difficult reading.
But as I said, I can't be bothered.
Good day.

[Royal Rother]

This was on Twitter yesterday...

Cost of a UEFA coaching licence in

Spain : £435
Germany £650
England £2300

I can't see confirmation of that anywhere so I'm merely chucking it into the debate but if true, maybe that is the real root cause that should be addressed rather than artificially creating opportunities for youngsters to play in a more competitive environment which would probably be at the cost of the existing pyramid.

[Sutekh]

Presumably so expensive in England because we're so backward it's harder to get the message over.

[frimmers3]

what guarantee is there that clubs will "invest" in home grown talent,when the finished article can be readily bought on the open market? it is like keeping a garage full of hillman imps in the vain hope they turn into aston martins.

[tmesis]

what guarantee is there that clubs will "invest" in home grown talent,when the finished article can be readily bought on the open market? it is like keeping a garage full of hillman imps in the vain hope they turn into aston martins.

...err, they are investing in academies already. Have been for quite a while now.

[frimmers3]

and?

[tmesis]

and?

"and" you are asking if there's any guarantee that they'll do something that they are already doing. You might as well cynically ask if the extra money coming into the game will see clubs bothering to update the stadiums they built up in the middle of the 20th century.

Also you are equating investing youth with being similar to hoping a crappy old car will turn into an expensive one, as if getting good players through a youth system is impossible.

[frimmers3]

You miss the point as ever. the top clubs will continue to "buy in",especially from overseas.they are generally the finished article,and come a lot cheaper than "home grown" players.

[tmesis]

You miss the point as ever.

Yes. I was looking for some rationality in you statement. My mistake.

the top clubs will continue to "buy in",especially from overseas.they are generally the finished article,and come a lot cheaper than "home grown" players.

Ok. So despite an increase in spending on youth development, you are worried clubs are less concerned about youth development than in the past?


Maybe I should just go multiple choice.


Do you believe clubs are going to be...

a) more inclined to invest in youth than before

b) less inclined to invest in youth than before

c) about the same


Do you believe clubs are going to be...

a) more keen to sign finished article players than before

b) less keen to sign finished article players than before

c) about the same


Or are you just lamenting the fact that it's sometimes more economical to buy players, something that's true of all levels of football?

[frimmers3]

now tailor your "multiple choice" platform factoring in "top clubs".Perhaps you could tell us how many "home grown" players featured for the just crowned premier league champions this season?

[Franchise FC]

and?

"and" you are asking if there's any guarantee that they'll do something that they are already doing. You might as well cynically ask if the extra money coming into the game will see clubs bothering to update the stadiums they built up in the middle of the 20th century.

Also you are equating investing youth with being similar to hoping a crappy old car will turn into an expensive one, as if getting good players through a youth system is impossible.

Am I missing the point ?

Man City - new stadium
Liverpool - ok, still as it was
Chelsea - seriously upgraded stadium
Arsenal - new stadium
Everton - 2 out of 5 with little change
Tottenham - ok, so now it's 50%
Man Utd - Old Trafford is unrecognisable from the mid-70s
Southampton - new stadium
Stoke City - new stadium
Newcastle - not sure how much they've changed, but it's certainly a massive upgrade in the state of the last century
Crystal Palace - ok they count as nothing changed
Swansea - new stadium
West Ham - does a future new stadium count
Sunderland - new stadium
Aston Villa - upgraded but not as significantly as counts in the question above I guess
Hull - new stadium
West Brom - no change
Norwich - no change
Fulham - no change
Cardiff - new stadiums

I make that 8 new ones out of 20, 3 that have been upgraded beyond recognition, and 1 moving very soon.

I'm not a fan of the Premier League at the cost of other teams, but you can't argue that they have used whatever money to upgrade facilities

[tmesis]

and?

"and" you are asking if there's any guarantee that they'll do something that they are already doing. You might as well cynically ask if the extra money coming into the game will see clubs bothering to update the stadiums they built up in the middle of the 20th century.

Also you are equating investing youth with being similar to hoping a crappy old car will turn into an expensive one, as if getting good players through a youth system is impossible.

Am I missing the point ?

Man City - new stadium
Liverpool - ok, still as it was
Chelsea - seriously upgraded stadium
Arsenal - new stadium
Everton - 2 out of 5 with little change
Tottenham - ok, so now it's 50%
Man Utd - Old Trafford is unrecognisable from the mid-70s
Southampton - new stadium
Stoke City - new stadium
Newcastle - not sure how much they've changed, but it's certainly a massive upgrade in the state of the last century
Crystal Palace - ok they count as nothing changed
Swansea - new stadium
West Ham - does a future new stadium count
Sunderland - new stadium
Aston Villa - upgraded but not as significantly as counts in the question above I guess
Hull - new stadium
West Brom - no change
Norwich - no change
Fulham - no change
Cardiff - new stadiums

I make that 8 new ones out of 20, 3 that have been upgraded beyond recognition, and 1 moving very soon.

I'm not a fan of the Premier League at the cost of other teams, but you can't argue that they have used whatever money to upgrade facilities

err..yeah. that was my point. It seems a little daft to cynically suggest that clubs won't do something they already are doing.

[tmesis]

now tailor your "multiple choice" platform factoring in "top clubs".Perhaps you could tell us how many "home grown" players featured for the just crowned premier league champions this season?

Very few, I'd wager.

I'd also suggest that very few clubs in the country have invested more in their youth set-up lately than Man City. They've just built a vast training complex a stone's throw from their ground, which even includes a complete stadium, just for youth team games.

[frimmers3]

only one goal in the premiership this season for manchester city was scored by an english player.

[Lovely hot donuts!]

Obviously B teams into the pyramid is ridiculous but I do wonder whether some form of cup competition with first teams could work. The JPT is not highly regarded by most of the clubs in it so maybe replace it with some sort of cup involving B teams and L1/L2 teams. Maybe even a group stage so B teams get a few proper competitive games? I know lower league fans would hate watching Stoke B or West Ham B week in, week out but the odd midweek cup game could be exciting could it not?
That seems to be a reasonable compromise to me.

Of course, the real problem is the stockpiling that a lot of clubs, but particularly Chelsea, are guilty of. Ryan Bertrand, for example, should have been moved on by now. He was brilliant for us five years ago but still has no run in the first team. Clubs should have some sort of obligation to give 18-21 year olds competitive football of some form, be it at the club or on loan, and move on 22+ year olds that they have no intention of playing. Also, a cap on total number of professionals on club's books maybe?

[harry]

For those of you who are against the B Teams idea there is a petition at Change.org

https://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/football-association-say-no-to-b-teams