Administration

[Yellowcoat]

What complete nonsense - you do not pay tax on losses! More bullshit from the usual culprits.

[Jackson Corner]

Administration is the way to go. Palace have been in Administration three times Southampton, Leicester and Bournemouth god knows how many times. Who say's cheats don't prosper?

[SpaghettiHoop]

What complete nonsense - you do not pay tax on losses! More bullshit from the usual culprits.

You deduct PAYE & NI from players' wages and VAT - all to be paid over to HMRC.

[Norfolk Royal]

In fairness that is pretty much exactly how it works.

If you believe yourself to be insolvent and in danger of not being able to pay your debts at some stage, you are duty bound to call in advisors. If you do not do so and the business goes down, the Directors can be held personally liable for the debts incurred between the time you should have called them in and when you did.

If the club is struggling to pay the debts it probably does make sense for the directors to call in the advisors so they have covered themselves. The fact that they believe they have potentially £20m of saleable assets (with virtually zero encumbrance) and future guaranteed (unearned?) income, and that the major creditors are the shareholders / directors does not negate the onus and responsibility to take advice from insolvency experts, because there may not be any further loans forthcoming from BZ and SJM and until the cash referred to above is in the coffers, they may NOT be able to pay the bills.

Insolvency experts would take the lead in negotiating the terms of payment with the creditors.

Nutshell job there (and not from a position of huge expertise in the field), but basically factual. It would just be doing it by the book.

Yes, fair points, although the club would have its own accountants who would be advising and I feel from what's been said that crisis management is probably more what is going on, if indeed anything is going on.

[Wycombe Royal]

I'm trying to work out how we could have amassed a £20m tax bill. The sums don't add up.

[Platypuss]

Now that's proper fishing. Chapeau.

[madstadblues]

I don't doubt that things are tight and Mr M. is less than keen on splashing his cash due to a change in his circumstances, wanting to sell etc. My question is if things are that bad, how are we able to offer this U18/U21 professional contracts which, regardless of what they earn today, represents an increased financial commitment over the next 2/3 years over the current outlay.

[Yellowcoat]

HMRC are much quicker to take action on unpaid PAYE/NI these days and the Football League also monitor the situation now. But just stop to think how much wages would need to to have been paid to cause £20M to be due or over what period it built up without any chasing by anybody. That it is why it is bullshit and all these negative comments by those not in the know are so harmful to RFC.

[westendgirl]

HMRC are much quicker to take action on unpaid PAYE/NI these days and the Football League also monitor the situation now. But just stop to think how much wages would need to to have been paid to cause £20M to be due or over what period it built up without any chasing by anybody. That it is why it is bullshit and all these negative comments by those not in the know are so harmful to RFC.

It is certainly harder to amass PAYE debts to the Revenue than it used to be as the new RTI system means that you can't just pay a little during the year and then find a large debt at the end of the year - the Revenue knows exactly what is due each month now.

[Nameless]

Presumably the biggest VAT payment would relate to ST, but I think that is due when the ST are sold, so we're either 12 months late or it's too early to owe anything. It would only be around £1 million anyway.

No doubt the truth will out at some point, until then all we can do is speculate based on partial info, misinformation, rumour and hearsay. Much like any football debate really

[SCIAG]

I don't doubt that things are tight and Mr M. is less than keen on splashing his cash due to a change in his circumstances, wanting to sell etc. My question is if things are that bad, how are we able to offer this U18/U21 professional contracts which, regardless of what they earn today, represents an increased financial commitment over the next 2/3 years over the current outlay.

Good point.

It would make sense if there were clubs circling them as it would ensure we got a transfer fee. I'm not sure that there are clubs queueing up to at George McLennan to their squad though.

[Elm Park Pasty]

I'm trying to work out how we could have amassed a £20m tax bill. The sums don't add up.

I'm trying to work out how no one had mentioned a £20M tax bill before in this thread (I think!) until someone posted that the main creditor is usually HMRC.

[Yellowcoat]

Because it is bullshit?

[Elm Park Pasty]

What complete nonsense - you do not pay tax on losses! More bullshit from the usual culprits.

You deduct PAYE & NI from players' wages and VAT - all to be paid over to HMRC.

I have asked someone I know in HMRC this very question. Shame they moved out, would have been so much easier for me just to pop in and ask her.

[Elm Park Pasty]

Because it is bullshit?

I was far too polite to say that . I'm not saying they're lying but they may be wilfully misinterpreting the facts .

[melonhead]

If JM isn't putting any money into the club where are the loans coming from? Only 2 sources I can think of are BZ or banks. If it's banks then surely they must have been guaranteed that expenditure is going to be slashed in the summer (which we all expect), in which case why is there a big worry of administration? No bank would loan us millions of pounds if they didn't feel confident they'd get their money back.

It's gonna suck but I can't see administration happening.

Exactly, it's just going to like it was 4 years ago where we were running at a loss each year and thus having to 'cut our cloth accordingly'. Think people need to dial down the rhetoric a little tbh, most clubs have to run without a benevolent owner behind the scenes, we'll be fine.

But due to Anton's spending way beyond our, and seemingly his means, the cloth cutting needs to be harder than it was then.

[Elm Park Pasty]

What complete nonsense - you do not pay tax on losses! More bullshit from the usual culprits.

This is why I wanted to speak to my HMRC contact. I think you may still have to pay VAT on receipts such as tickets, shirt sales etc etc, the only thing you would not have to pay is any profit related tax. Additionally, of course, all staff income related taxes would still have to be paid.

[Yellowcoat]

Yes agreed but where is any evidence RFC is in arrears?

[Tilehurstsouthbank]

exactly

....and even if we aren't


Follow the Portsmouth model (and to a certain degree the Leicester one too)


Sold down the line, cheated all of their creditors (twice), sunk to the low of the lows ( a team comprised of loanees and nobody paid more than £2999 pw) ...and yet

Large crowds and great passionate support....that is all that matters.......f11ck the rest of the monetary and directorship stuff.....just start enjoying your football again


Could we see ourselves with crowds of 15k plus in Div 2?..................these days, yes, just maybe

+1 except for the crowds thing. You only have to trawl HNA to see how fickle some of our fans are.

[Tilehurstsouthbank]

exactly

....and even if we aren't


Follow the Portsmouth model (and to a certain degree the Leicester one too)


Sold down the line, cheated all of their creditors (twice), sunk to the low of the lows ( a team comprised of loanees and nobody paid more than £2999 pw) ...and yet

Large crowds and great passionate support....that is all that matters.......f11ck the rest of the monetary and directorship stuff.....just start enjoying your football again

Could we see ourselves with crowds of 15k plus in Div 2?..................these days, yes, just maybe

+1 except for the crowds thing. You only have to trawl HNA to see how fickle some of our fans are.