Confimred new owners of Raeding Footbal Club

[Royal Rother]

@ charles_watts

" There are no parachute payments, they gone. The one that is due in Aug will go straight to Vibrac to cover a £10m loan."


I read that as ALL parachute payments are gone.


Watts has clarified this to mean 2013 and 2014 gone, not sure 100% about the 2015 one.

There wasn't a 2013 one.

This is our 1st season back in the Champ and the PP was £16m, due at the end of June 2014 is my understanding.

Vibrac would be paid in full at that point presumably, but equally presumably the club know that they will need a new advance so it will effectively just roll over if everything else remains in place.

I'd love to know what clause Vibrac have in their terms, which allows their advisors to have the power to decide who the club should be sold to. Very odd.

If their loan is £10m at 16%, what more say could they have if a prospective new owner gives them a cheque for £11.6m and tells them to piss off?

Interesting stuff, but the bottom line is nobody on HNA knows the answers. End of.

[Royal Lady]

Yeah which is why I asked Charles Watts - and seems he doesn't know either, if you're correct.

[ZacNaloen]

None of this is new information

So, did VIBRAC or did they not, loan against all parachute payments we were due then?

You can work it out by the size of the debt quoted as being to them, if it was all the parachute payments it would be much higher.



What I'm not clear on is if the debt of 20.1million ks the total debt, including to the owners or if it's the debt to 3rd parties. if it's the total debt, it's been higher in the past we only haev an issue now because of VIBRAC.

Previously a fund that was provided by Madejski had to be covered by a 3rd party who seem to have some weird clauses.

No it doesn't. I would have thought if 2015 parachute payment had been borrowed against already, that would still show now as a debt in the accounts? I dunno. But I'd like to know why it was necessary to borrow this years if we were such a well run club.

And this is exactly why you can't take everything Charles says at face value. He's not a finance expert and he's going to by second maybe even third hand information with each source putting their own spin on it. It's a complicated game of chinese whispers.

[ZacNaloen]

I'd love to know what clause Vibrac have in their terms, which allows their advisors to have the power to decide who the club should be sold to. Very odd.

Someone earlier suggested it was the tax bill issue, but seeing as we sold ALF to pay that I don't see how they still have any power to step in.

If they get paid off then they are out of the picture, you would assume.

I'd make a suggestion VIBRAC are dodgy as oxf*rd with all sorts of clauses and clubs only use them when desperate. Pay day loans company, basically.

[Whore Jackie]

There are buyers ready but Vibrac have moved the goalposts.

[URZZZZZ]

So once they receive this years parachute payment, we only owe them 1.5mil. And we can't even scrape that up

[Extended-Phenotype]

Madejski in not being honest with us shocker

[loyalroyaldaz]

So once they receive this years parachute payment, we only owe them 1.5mil. And we can't even scrape that up

If that were true then i dont think we would be where we are now with them selling us.
I did say in here previously that i was told we had borrowed the lot and subsequently a large amount of it went "elsewhere".

Lets hope i was told wrongly then because im afraid its not looking good!

[Royal Lady]

Exactly daz. Exactly.

[ZacNaloen]

We've been told by Begbies, by the club, and Samuelson the exact total of debt as being 20.1 million. 10 Millionish of that being to Virbrac, plus interest.

Other 10 million is probably to the owners, but no one has defined it. The owner debt used to be much bigger so I would like it cleared up if it's the total debt.

Does that give your conspiracy theory much wiggle room?

[Elmer Park]

Apologies if this has already been covered somewhere but for the last year or so we've had to wait for SJM to make a statement to know anything about the potential takeover but in the last few weeks Fordham and Watts suddenly have sources. These sources may or may not be accurate but either way how come information is now being fed to journalists and who do you think these sources are ?

[ZacNaloen]

Samuelson to the BBC

Don't know charles and fordhams source. Has to be a limited number though, most people in the club will be kept in the dark except for Rumours.

[Royal Lady]

If we owe £10 million to VIBRAC and possibly another £10 million to the owners, why are VIBRAC calling all the shots?

[ZacNaloen]

You tweeted that the parachute payments are gone... all of them or just this year's??
ShareDiscussions3
Roy Evans


Charles Watts
The 2013 and 2014 are gone. I'm not sure about 2015.
June 11 2014 1:37 PM

Zacnaloen
Charles, There is no 2013 Payment first payment comes at end of the season. Do you mean this season and next?
June 11 2014 1:41 PM

Charles Watts
Sorry, yes. 2014 has gone, was secured against the Vibrac loan. 2015 I'm not so sure.

[loyalroyaldaz]

Well its not my theory but surely the size of the debt is irrelevant if the money has been had and its gone somewhere already?
What money. Has been received, whats gone where, we dont know and maybe never will but the fact still remains that premier league promotion was said to be worth £60m.
So if weve had that and still owe £20m then weve spunked away £80m somewhere !
Not that straight forward i know but you see where im coming from..

[ZacNaloen]

Well its not my theory but surely the size of the debt is irrelevant if the money has been had and its gone somewhere already?
What money. Has been received, whats gone where, we dont know and maybe never will but the fact still remains that premier league promotion was said to be worth £60m.
So if weve had that and still owe £20m then weve spunked away £80m somewhere !
Not that straight forward i know but you see where im coming from..

I suspect most of it went on this years and last years wage bill. 10 million was just a top up to get us over the hill as it's not the full parachute money, I suspect when the accounts come out we'll see our wage bill this year was in the 30 millions.

And any debt that doesn't appear on the books because it's gone elsewhere is not our problem.

[ZacNaloen]

And charles understands 20.1 million is the total debt, so the total debt is down. So some of the money must have gone towards that, or someones written stuff off.

[SPARTA]

None of this adds up.

That's what Samuelson is good at.

[JIM]

BEWARE Just read PHOENIX offshore is a scam. Charlie said they were interested. be very afraid, go to phoenix offshore ,

[Royal Rother]

And charles understands 20.1 million is the total debt, so the total debt is down. So some of the money must have gone towards that, or someones written stuff off.

The only thing I can come up with is a theory that the Deferred Contributions of £11m (as at June 2013) have been discounted / excluded in arriving at the debt figure - it is a (kind of) contingent liability, only to be collected at the discretion of the Football Trust should RFC stop using the Mad Stad.

If you took that bit out of June 2013's Balance Sheet and said "let's credit the whole amount back the P&L a/c in one lump" - (it was supposed to happen over the next 33 years!) then the deficit would have been £12m.

I guess an increase in deficit this year of £8m is not unreasonable which would give the £20m they are talking about.

The only other thing I can come up with is if they have carried out a revaluation of the Stadium.

Neither of those would have any impact on the cash position of course which is where the real challenge exists, but they COULD explain why CS has talked about £20m deficit.