Confimred new owners of Raeding Footbal Club

[Royalwaster]

BEWARE Just read PHOENIX offshore is a scam. Charlie said they were interested. be very afraid, go to phoenix offshore ,

Beware just heard JIM is a scam.

[ZacNaloen]

And charles understands 20.1 million is the total debt, so the total debt is down. So some of the money must have gone towards that, or someones written stuff off.

The only thing I can come up with is a theory that the Deferred Contributions of £11m (as at June 2013) have been discounted / excluded in arriving at the debt figure - it is a (kind of) contingent liability, only to be collected at the discretion of the Football Trust should RFC stop using the Mad Stad.

If you took that bit out of June 2013's Balance Sheet and said "let's credit the whole amount back the P&L a/c in one lump" - (it was supposed to happen over the next 33 years!) then the deficit would have been £12m.

I guess an increase in deficit this year of £8m is not unreasonable which would give the £20m they are talking about.

The only other thing I can come up with is if they have carried out a revaluation of the Stadium.

Neither of those would have any impact on the cash position of course which is where the real challenge exists, but they COULD explain why CS has talked about £20m deficit.

It's not the debt it's the cash should be our Mantra in all of this. We've had a massive debt for some time.

[Terminal Boardom]

And charles understands 20.1 million is the total debt, so the total debt is down. So some of the money must have gone towards that, or someones written stuff off.

The only thing I can come up with is a theory that the Deferred Contributions of £11m (as at June 2013) have been discounted / excluded in arriving at the debt figure - it is a (kind of) contingent liability, only to be collected at the discretion of the Football Trust should RFC stop using the Mad Stad.

If you took that bit out of June 2013's Balance Sheet and said "let's credit the whole amount back the P&L a/c in one lump" - (it was supposed to happen over the next 33 years!) then the deficit would have been £12m.

I guess an increase in deficit this year of £8m is not unreasonable which would give the £20m they are talking about.

The only other thing I can come up with is if they have carried out a revaluation of the Stadium.

Neither of those would have any impact on the cash position of course which is where the real challenge exists, but they COULD explain why CS has talked about £20m deficit.

It's not the debt it's the cash should be our Mantra in all of this. We've had a massive debt for some time.

The difference now is that the debt is not owed to one man but a bunch of loan sharks that would make Wonga.com seem reasonable by comparison. This is all going to end very badly. Well run club...

[PieEater]

If we owe £10 million to VIBRAC and possibly another £10 million to the owners, why are VIBRAC calling all the shots?

Because a condition of the loan was they had a charge on the club if we broke certain conditions - like not paying HMRC.

[Royal Lady]

Did they? What has us not paying HMRC got to do with them though? Well, it seems they are putting people off buying the club - so well done them.

[PieEater]

Did they? What has us not paying HMRC got to do with them though? Well, it seems they are putting people off buying the club - so well done them.

In the CS interview he said AO arranged the loans, and the loan involved a charge on the club. I'm not sure quite what they're playing at as they seem pretty sure to clear their loan after the PP is paid.

[Ian Royal]

RL, can I suggest you re-read this thread, because almost every question you've asked in the last 3 pages has already been answered at least once in the last couple of months on these pages

[winchester_royal]

If the parachute payments are going straight to Vibrac, which will thus presumably pay off the loan that was secured on the back of those payments, won't this mean that Vibrac are no longer creditors and therefore should have no further say in the sale?

[ZacNaloen]

Did they? What has us not paying HMRC got to do with them though? Well, it seems they are putting people off buying the club - so well done them.

In the CS interview he said AO arranged the loans, and the loan involved a charge on the club. I'm not sure quite what they're playing at as they seem pretty sure to clear their loan after the PP is paid.

We would still need to find a way to pay next years wage bill, and also we would need to find a way to cover the interest on the loan. But tbf, a few player sales...

[ZacNaloen]

If the parachute payments are going straight to Vibrac, which will thus presumably pay off the loan that was secured on the back of those payments, won't this mean that Vibrac are no longer creditors and therefore should have no further say in the sale?

This is what I don't understand, if we can pay the loan back we are within a month of being able to do so.

[Ian Royal]

Did they? What has us not paying HMRC got to do with them though? Well, it seems they are putting people off buying the club - so well done them.

In the CS interview he said AO arranged the loans, and the loan involved a charge on the club. I'm not sure quite what they're playing at as they seem pretty sure to clear their loan after the PP is paid.

We would still need to find a way to pay next years wage bill, and also we would need to find a way to cover the interest on the loan. But tbf, a few player sales...

This is the problem with parachute payments paid at the end of the year. If you're reliant on them to pay the wage bill, you're forced into a loan every year and you get further and further into debt.

[winchester_royal]

I'm fast coming to the conclusion that the likes of Fordham and Watts really don't have a scooby about the facts and are just regurgitating 'information' that is being leaked from a source with a very partisan agenda.

[sandman]

I'm fast coming to the conclusion that the likes of Fordham and Watts really don't have a scooby about the facts and are just regurgitating 'information' that is being leaked from a source with a very partisan agenda.

Sounds like an accurate description of the itk brigade on here, except their sources aren't real.

[ZacNaloen]

I'm fast coming to the conclusion that the likes of Fordham and Watts really don't have a scooby about the facts and are just regurgitating 'information' that is being leaked from a source with a very partisan agenda.

I decided that last week tbh

Same with Dellor and his source which I'm 100% sure is Samuelson, which is why their story has a different spin.

[loyalroyaldaz]

If the parachute payments are going straight to Vibrac, which will thus presumably pay off the loan that was secured on the back of those payments, won't this mean that Vibrac are no longer creditors and therefore should have no further say in the sale?

This is what I don't understand, if we can pay the loan back we are within a month of being able to do so.

Which is exactly why i believe there much more to this than we have been privvy to.
And why i am beggining to believe what i was told about the club being mortgaged against all the parachute payments.
I am no financier by a long way but isnt it usually a case of if you default on a mortgage then the property it was secured against gets seized by the lender and subsequently sold off to pay the debt?

[ZacNaloen]

We would still need to find a way to pay next years wage bill, and also we would need to find a way to cover the interest on the loan. But tbf, a few player sales...
This is the problem with parachute payments paid at the end of the year. If you're reliant on them to pay the wage bill, you're forced into a loan every year and you get further and further into debt.

They assume that you've been able to bank the money from your last prem payments I reckon. Which of course isn't true due to needing huge wages to pay for that time in the prem.

[ZacNaloen]

Which is exactly why i believe there much more to this than we have been privvy to.
And why i am beggining to believe what i was told about the club being mortgaged against all the parachute payments.
I am no financier by a long way but isnt it usually a case of if you default on a mortgage then the property it was secured against gets seized by the lender and subsequently sold off to pay the debt?

That would be public information if it had happened.

[winchester_royal]

I'm fast coming to the conclusion that the likes of Fordham and Watts really don't have a scooby about the facts and are just regurgitating 'information' that is being leaked from a source with a very partisan agenda.

I decided that last week tbh

Same with Dellor and his source which I'm 100% sure is Samuelson, which is why their story has a different spin.

Have looked through the webchat and Charles is wittering away about Vibrac jacking up the asking price to get more money for themselves. How can this be so if they don't actually own the club? If all they are getting is what is owed to them then surely the offer of £1 + pay off debt will be just as beneficial from their POV as a £50m takeover?

It's all very odd.

[Pepe the Horseman]

Did you see my hilarious* puns about the hedge fund that went str8 over Charlie's head?

[madstadblues]

For the financiers out there would the liabilites of any loan be split between TSI and Reading FC Holdings ?

If there is a charge (A legal charge on a property is a document that is held by Land Registry which outlines the person who holds the first charge on a property. It is a security to ensure payment of debt. A legal charge also prevents the property being sold without the financial interest of a property being repaid. what is the charge on - it can't be everything Hotel, Ground, Club, Parachute payments for 10mill. Can it last for ever even if the debt is paid ?

Anybody seen the Land Registry documentation ?