Wolves - back from the sofa

[The Rouge]

I thought he looked/played great.

[Wycombe Royal]

Palace, pundits, half a dozen here and THE MANAGER all say Murray needed games to reach his maximum[/u][/b]

No one is disagreeing there, but that is match fitness, not to do with his injury which he returned from nearly 8 months ago. His match fitness is down to a lack of game time this season, not last season. There has been a summer break in between when most of a players match fitness goes.

Still "returning"



returning to full match fitness

Look Snowball I don't want to make you out to be a bit forgetful, but this is what you wrote:

Second he's returning after a LONG time out of the game

[Whore Jackie]

Murray v Fulham >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pog v Fulham

[Snowball]

[
Look Snowball I don't want to make you out to be a bit forgetful, but this is what you wrote:

Second he's returning after a LONG time out of the game

I don't have a problem with that. IMO he is, quote, "Returning after a long time out of the game."

[Snowball]

Soooo, we are all in agreement that Glen Murray is still working his way back to full match fitness. We also all agree that he's not just returning from a recent knee injury.

Good, let's move on.

and the discussion of semantics REALLY helped us all

[Wycombe Royal]

[
Look Snowball I don't want to make you out to be a bit forgetful, but this is what you wrote:

Second he's returning after a LONG time out of the game

I don't have a problem with that. IMO he is, quote, "Returning after a long time out of the game."

Except that he's not.....this is like a flashback to the days of Shane Long, a time when you were unable to admit you were wrong. Nothing has changed......

[Ian Royal]

- I'm sorry Ian Royal, but Danny Guthrie is a horrible piece of work and doesn't even have the good grace to be our best player, he's crap. I think it's fair to say Norwood is a substantial improvement and you know why? He plays the ball quickly. Danny Guthrie takes all year to make his mind up before trying some vanity ball with the defence set. Guthrie kills our tempo. Know football, know that to be true.

I agree Norwood is proving better than Guthrie. I agree Guthrie has slowed us down considerably in the past. I think Guthrie can and has dictated play for us well in the past as well though. And that he'd benefit from the general improvement in the quality of the side's passing and movement. Still work to be done there though. But he needs to get match fit and prove his worth otherwise he's certainly behind Norwood in the pecking order and therefore probably the different Karacan and Williams should they ever get and stay fit.

I don't really get where you get the vitriol of him being a horrible piece of work, or why he should "have the good grace to be our best player", both of those things seem like ridiculous comments to make to me.

I wouldn't be particularly upset to see Guthrie leave, but he does get some stupid criticism from people pushing an agenda simply because he didn't get on with McDermott and refused to play a game two years ago.

Guthrie appears to be the epitome of what appears to be egocentric thinking (or perhaps, instinct).

Either way, he never ever looks part of the greater whole.

Within your discourse Ian, even if you prefer to take the balanced view, your comment 'I wouldn't be particularly upset to see Guthrie leave…' reveals a segment of the truth about this player.

Like it or not, his attitude with McDermott way back when date-stamped his impression at this club.

I had - conveniently - convinced myself he had left. Personally it irks me that he remains.

But that is purely my own opinion, obviously, etc.

It reveals I think he's probably quite expensive for what he's achieved with us and has fitness problems, so given we have Norwood and Kuhl losing him isn't a disaster. Although before Norwood arrived it would very much have been a Bad ThingTM.

[Snowball]

I don't have a problem with that. IMO he is, quote, "Returning after a long time out of the game."

Except that he's not.....this is like a flashback to the days of Shane Long, a time when you were unable to admit you were wrong. Nothing has changed......

I can read dates on calendars as well as you.

I can see when a player returns and how often he's played.

I remain totally happy with my understanding of the statement, "Returning after a long time out of the game."


You could (if you were an a-hole) argue that the moment a player has played one second, even after a decade out
that he is "no longer returning from the lay-off."

I prefer to be more rational and to say that, IMO, he's still making his come-back, he is not a maximum fitness,
speed, sharpness, awareness, and so on. For ME, that's "He is still returning after a long lay-off."


Your turn. Why don't we see if we can keep this pointless discussion going until Xmas?






2018

[Zana Badawi]

I just at those bickering about statistics regarding pitch-time, fitness levels, strike rate etc.

Just use the evidence of your own eyes. The difference between Murray and Pogrebnyak is like night and day.

One of these professional athletes is capable of jumping for a ball, the other has lead in their boots.
One has the upper body strength and attitude to withstand a challenge, the other falls down and then gets up holding their head.
One leads the front line, and makes things happen, the other waits for something to happen.

I'm not a particular "H8r" of any player, but over the many decades that we have all watched the club, we see that there are those players who give a sh1t, and there are those who are collecting a wage. Drenthe was not the only misguided marquee signing made in recent times. Reputation will only get you so far.

It's not solely about ability. It's also about attitude. Without the latter, the former is largely irrelevant.

This, basically.
If there is one thing I dislike in a striker, it is a striker who doesn't like to shoot. For me that sums up Pogrebnyak.
Murray is the complete opposite. You can tell that he's the type of player midfielders love giving the ball too. Yeah, Im worried about how many games he can play in a week - but he is so much more dangerous than Pog that he has to start every game, even if the intention is to bring him off later.

[Zana Badawi]

Everyone else looks likely to wobble, slip or have a shit season. Blackpool are pathetic. Will be worried if we don't get 6 points from them

Although I don't rate Wolves as much as their league position suggests, I think its one of the best Championship line ups we've seen for many years.
I mean last year was awful, but a lot of teams are coming out of transition and have proper squads on the go. I think definite weak teams are few and far between this year.

[sandman]

I just at those bickering about statistics regarding pitch-time, fitness levels, strike rate etc.

Just use the evidence of your own eyes. The difference between Murray and Pogrebnyak is like night and day.

One of these professional athletes is capable of jumping for a ball, the other has lead in their boots.
One has the upper body strength and attitude to withstand a challenge, the other falls down and then gets up holding their head.
One leads the front line, and makes things happen, the other waits for something to happen.

I'm not a particular "H8r" of any player, but over the many decades that we have all watched the club, we see that there are those players who give a sh1t, and there are those who are collecting a wage. Drenthe was not the only misguided marquee signing made in recent times. Reputation will only get you so far.

It's not solely about ability. It's also about attitude. Without the latter, the former is largely irrelevant.

This, basically.
If there is one thing I dislike in a striker, it is a striker who doesn't like to shoot. For me that sums up Pogrebnyak.
Murray is the complete opposite. You can tell that he's the type of player midfielders love giving the ball too. Yeah, Im worried about how many games he can play in a week - but he is so much more dangerous than Pog that he has to start every game, even if the intention is to bring him off later.

Tbf to Pog when your manager says that the team are not looking to score every time they get the ball then it's difficult to know when to shoot and when not to.

[Wycombe Royal]

Your turn. Why don't we see if we can keep this pointless discussion going until Xmas?

I'm not sure I can be bothered to be honest, my totally pointless point has been made and I have enjoyed revisiting 2010, or was it 2011?

Until the next time.......

[Ian Royal]

I just at those bickering about statistics regarding pitch-time, fitness levels, strike rate etc.

Just use the evidence of your own eyes. The difference between Murray and Pogrebnyak is like night and day.

One of these professional athletes is capable of jumping for a ball, the other has lead in their boots.
One has the upper body strength and attitude to withstand a challenge, the other falls down and then gets up holding their head.
One leads the front line, and makes things happen, the other waits for something to happen.

I'm not a particular "H8r" of any player, but over the many decades that we have all watched the club, we see that there are those players who give a sh1t, and there are those who are collecting a wage. Drenthe was not the only misguided marquee signing made in recent times. Reputation will only get you so far.

It's not solely about ability. It's also about attitude. Without the latter, the former is largely irrelevant.

This, basically.
If there is one thing I dislike in a striker, it is a striker who doesn't like to shoot. For me that sums up Pogrebnyak.
Murray is the complete opposite. You can tell that he's the type of player midfielders love giving the ball too. Yeah, Im worried about how many games he can play in a week - but he is so much more dangerous than Pog that he has to start every game, even if the intention is to bring him off later.

Tbf to Pog when your manager says that the team are not looking to score every time they get the ball then it's difficult to know when to shoot and when not to.

How about when you've got a decent chance or not, same as if the team is trying to work a goal scoring chance as soon as they get the ball, or whether they're looking to maintain possession and work a good chance, rather than an immediate chance.

[Vic_Flange]

We were OK; which is why we are on this division, or just sneak into the lower play-of

What an outragous thing to say.

[RoyallyFcuked]

I just at those bickering about statistics regarding pitch-time, fitness levels, strike rate etc.

Just use the evidence of your own eyes. The difference between Murray and Pogrebnyak is like night and day.

One of these professional athletes is capable of jumping for a ball, the other has lead in their boots.
One has the upper body strength and attitude to withstand a challenge, the other falls down and then gets up holding their head.
One leads the front line, and makes things happen, the other waits for something to happen.

I'm not a particular "H8r" of any player, but over the many decades that we have all watched the club, we see that there are those players who give a sh1t, and there are those who are collecting a wage. Drenthe was not the only misguided marquee signing made in recent times. Reputation will only get you so far.

It's not solely about ability. It's also about attitude. Without the latter, the former is largely irrelevant.

+1

Well said. I hope Pog goes asap really, we got mugged off in that deal. I think everyone thought he was a bit better than he actually was/is when we signed him.To be honest he just isnt particularly good in any way and for the amount he's cost us he just hasnt cut it. We could get somone better in for a lot less money, and personally I hope it happens sooner rather than later.

[Royal Ginger]

Whilst I agree that we're probably paying too much for him, I think he's a very good footballer, has amazing control and has suffered from being at the forefront during some of the darker RFC days in recent memory.