CONFIMRED - Glenn Murray on loan

[Ian Royal]

As it happens, based on the intended resources Reading intend to spend on this player, I think we can find better. It would be a poor signing in the short term, and a terrible signing in the long term.

Bully for you. I think that's bollocks. The fact is we've spent the money, we've got him and he's doing a good job. We've got far more important problems to deal with, so I'd suggest getting some perspective, focus your complaints somewhere relevant and get behind the best striker we've had since Long.

In what sense have we spent the money? He's on loan, Ian Keep up...

The best striker since Long? That's a nonsense statement to make after 11 games, many of which he's done oxf*rd all.
Also, I don't recall claiming Pogrebnyak was a better option than Murray. Can't wait for the day when Pogrebnyak's off the books. It's imperative that we don't give a permanent contract to Pog Mk II.

We've spent the money in that he's at the club and we're paying his wages.

[Royal Ginger]

at you, ya daft pcunt.

Point well missed, and you've resorted to name calling, cute.

I don't doubt that there are plenty of young quick strikers, but if they're young, quick and any good, they're going to be out of our price range. You suggest that we should be looking for one as if it hadn't occurred to Hammond that it'd be a good thing, of course it has, we iz just broke innit.

[JakeTheRoyal]

Someone came from my till last night on the phone talking about Glenn Murray. He said " its sad becuase he only joined in the summer, but o guess people have different motivations". Beileve what you will put it sounds like he will be off in January !

[GH Royal]

Someone came from my till last night on the phone talking about Glenn Murray. He said " its sad becuase he only joined in the summer, but o guess people have different motivations". Beileve what you will put it sounds like he will be off in January !

Think you might need to fluff that out a bit chap - your till? Where do you work? And if you didn't recognise this bloke I'm not sure who he could be, as you would think any negotiations or talks would be between Hammond and Murray's agent.

[M Brook]

Someone came from my till last night on the phone talking about Glenn Murray. He said " its sad becuase he only joined in the summer, but o guess people have different motivations". Beileve what you will put it sounds like he will be off in January !

Think you might need to fluff that out a bit chap - your till? Where do you work? And if you didn't recognise this bloke I'm not sure who he could be, as you would think any negotiations or talks would be between Hammond and Murray's agent.

'Fluff it out a bit'? - he needs to put it in proper, understandable English so we can have some idea of what he is trying to say!

[Wycombe Royal]

I'm still not sure on Glenn Murray, but if I'm being honest I don't think he is the type of striker we need whilst Pog is still here. We need a quicker striker who can get in behind the opposition defence so that we have alternatives when one style of play isn't working. At the moment we are playing very one dimensional with our entire attacking play based on getting crosses in.

If we are to sign him I wouldn't want us to pay anything over £1.5m.

[GH Royal]

Someone came from my till last night on the phone talking about Glenn Murray. He said " its sad becuase he only joined in the summer, but o guess people have different motivations". Beileve what you will put it sounds like he will be off in January !

Think you might need to fluff that out a bit chap - your till? Where do you work? And if you didn't recognise this bloke I'm not sure who he could be, as you would think any negotiations or talks would be between Hammond and Murray's agent.

'Fluff it out a bit'? - he needs to put it in proper, understandable English so we can have some idea of what he is trying to say!

Yeah that too

[Silver Fox]

What about penalties? Is the player that scores 3 out of 7 penalties as good as the player that scores 3 out of 3? Obviously not.
So why would that logic not pass over to shots in open play?

I never thought I'd see the day someone would have an argument with Ian and end up being the stupid one but that's mighty close

[P!ssed Off]

What about penalties? Is the player that scores 3 out of 7 penalties as good as the player that scores 3 out of 3? Obviously not.
So why would that logic not pass over to shots in open play?

I never thought I'd see the day someone would have an argument with Ian and end up being the stupid one but that's mighty close

Obviously it's not the same thing. But you can analyse a striker's conversion rate from say 'headed shots in the penalty area' in a similar way to 'shots from the penalty spot'. And you wouldn't say the lower conversion rate the better.

[SCIAG]

Obviously it's not the same thing. But you can analyse a striker's conversion rate from say 'headed shots in the penalty area' in a similar way to 'shots from the penalty spot'. And you wouldn't say the lower conversion rate the better.

Murray tries things that Pogrebnyak wouldn't try.

I don't think anyone would seriously argue that Robbie Keane was ever the best striker in the Premier League, but his shots-to-goals ratio was much better than Rooney or Drogba (same for Kevin Doyle at Reading, actually). Obviously I don't think Murray is as good as Rooney or Drogba, but he does take more shots from distance, tricky angles, volleys, and other bold shots that Pogrebnyak didn't take on. That might mean that he misses more shots, but we score more goals.

[Ian Royal]

What about penalties? Is the player that scores 3 out of 7 penalties as good as the player that scores 3 out of 3? Obviously not.
So why would that logic not pass over to shots in open play?

I never thought I'd see the day someone would have an argument with Ian and end up being the stupid one but that's mighty close

That's top nobbing if you don't mind me saying so.

[Jimbo]

I think Murray and Pog are similar in that I can't see either of them creating something from nothing but if you create chances for them, they will score goals. Murray, however, is proven in the Championship and better in the air. So if it was a straight choice between the two of them Murray would edge it.

With Pog stuck here I think Murray is almost a luxury signing in that respect and our money may be better spent on strengthening defence.

It would be interesting to see how a partnership of Pog and Cox would work out given enough time.

[paddy20]

Murray is the best forward we have had since
Long & Doyle

If we don't keep him we are going to struggle big time

[P!ssed Off]

Obviously it's not the same thing. But you can analyse a striker's conversion rate from say 'headed shots in the penalty area' in a similar way to 'shots from the penalty spot'. And you wouldn't say the lower conversion rate the better.

Murray tries things that Pogrebnyak wouldn't try.

I don't think anyone would seriously argue that Robbie Keane was ever the best striker in the Premier League, but his shots-to-goals ratio was much better than Rooney or Drogba (same for Kevin Doyle at Reading, actually). Obviously I don't think Murray is as good as Rooney or Drogba, but he does take more shots from distance, tricky angles, volleys, and other bold shots that Pogrebnyak didn't take on. That might mean that he misses more shots, but we score more goals.

Yeah, we've had the Murray makes his own chances, Murray tries the outlandish before.
But is it true?

21 of Murray's 41 shots have been headers. Only two other players in the league have had over 20 headed shots this season, and of the 27 players with 5 or more goals only Rudy Gestede, of Blackburn, has a higher headed shots:total shots ratio.
Now occasionally you might say "he did well to get his head on that cross" but by and large can a striker really be said to create his own opportunities, if said opportunities are headed shots?

'Well, that means he's great at heading' you might say. Except he's needed an average of 7 headed shots for each goal, scoring just once from his last 19 headed shots, which doesn't sound particularly good to me.

Murray's had 10 shots out of 41 outside the area. That's just under 1/4. Most of the top scoring strikers in the Championship seem to average around 15-25%, except for a few like Gestede, Wilson, Andre Gray and Kenywne Jones who haven't taken many long shots at all.

So, perhaps his propensity to take long shots is very slightly above most of the league's decently performing strikers. Though he's only scored 1 out of his 10 efforts outside the box, which is possibly not shit, but is hardly very good.

As for whether Murray takes a lot of shots from 'tricky angles, volleys and other bold shots,' I can't say I've noticed too much of that. In 11 league games he's certainly not scored once from any such shot, so perhaps if he's doing so many of them, he ought not to bother.

[Snowball]

Murray gets a heavy clattering most games.



He's "a handful" as they say, and Cox himself has said it's Murray doing the grunt work that's allowing him (Cox) to score goals.

Pog, OTOH, though he has power, seems even easier to bully, very rarely wins a header and has a poor overall goals to minutes over the last few seasons.

He has made 85 appearances totalling 5,996 minutes, scoring 22 goals, 1 for every 270 minutes on the pitch.

That looks slightly better because he got a few cup goals.

His LEAGUE form is 79 apps for 18 goals (549 Minutes) at 305 mins per goal

His Championship-only form is 49-13-3476 = 267 minutes per goal

Not in your wildest dreams can you say that's "top scoring"


Murray's stats are much better

For Palace he appeared 106 times (7152 minutes) scoring 39 goals at 183 mins/goal

Not enough data yet for reading but he's five goals in 11 appearances (931 minutes) at 186 mins/goal

His Championship-only form is 91 apps 41 goals (7062 minutes) = a goal every 172 minutes (compared with Pog's 267) = NO CONTEST!

[Snowball]

14 Championship assists in his 7,062 minutes MURRAY (1 every 500 mins)
05 Championship assists in his 3,476 minutes POG (1 every 695 mins)


If you measure the striker by goals AND assists (Championship) you get

91 55 7062 128 minutes per goal-or-assist MURRAY
49 18 3476 193 minutes per goal-or-assist POG

From the stats, Murray is better, but watch him and he does a lot more work, clever work, and he actually organises the attack. POG, OTOH, though he shows flashes, doesn't do anything like as much.

As for shots per goal etc, surely that's not the point? The question is not does Murray score X or miss Y, but is THE TEAM getting more goals overall when he plays?

So, for example, Murray "shooting a lot" may mean he has to be closed down more and thus there's more space for others who then get chances they wouldn't have.





PS all the above could be problematic if Adkins plays more/less defensively depending on which main striker is playing.

[P!ssed Off]

You've wasted your time there Snowball.
I've not claimed once that Pogrebnyak is better than Murray. I think Pogrebnyak is shit.

The question I've been asking is whether we should sign Murray or look elsewhere.

[Extended-Phenotype]

You've wasted your time there Snowball.
I've not claimed once that Pogrebnyak is better than Murray. I think Pogrebnyak is shit.

The question I've been asking is whether we should sign Murray or look elsewhere.

The question is surely CAN we look elsewhere, or is Murray the best we can do?

[P!ssed Off]

You've wasted your time there Snowball.
I've not claimed once that Pogrebnyak is better than Murray. I think Pogrebnyak is shit.

The question I've been asking is whether we should sign Murray or look elsewhere.

The question is surely CAN we look elsewhere, or is Murray the best we can do?

I think there are certainly other options.
First of all the Murray transfer would not be a cheap bit of business. £25K a week loan is not cheap. The supposedly agreed £1.5 million fee for a 31 year old who's recently been out for a season with injury is not cheap.

How much did we pay for Cox? A rumoured £750K. And Cox has more goals than Murray, and is likely on cheaper wages. Does that not answer the question of can we find more goals for less transfer fee/wages.

There is always plenty of talent below, waiting to come up.
Talent on the way up may be more expensive transfer fee wise, but it will be much cheaper salary wise. And it's an investment. Transfer fees and wages on players in their thirties is simply money down the drain.

[Extended-Phenotype]

You've wasted your time there Snowball.
I've not claimed once that Pogrebnyak is better than Murray. I think Pogrebnyak is shit.

The question I've been asking is whether we should sign Murray or look elsewhere.

The question is surely CAN we look elsewhere, or is Murray the best we can do?

I think there are certainly other options.
First of all the Murray transfer would not be a cheap bit of business. £25K a week loan is not cheap. The supposedly agreed £1.5 million fee for a 31 year old who's recently been out for a season with injury is not cheap.

How much did we pay for Cox? A rumoured £750K. And Cox has more goals than Murray, and is likely on cheaper wages. Does that not answer the question of can we find more goals for less transfer fee/wages.

There is always plenty of talent below, waiting to come up.
Talent on the way up may be more expensive transfer fee wise, but it will be much cheaper salary wise. And it's an investment. Transfer fees and wages on players in their thirties is simply money down the drain.

What is your list of targets, PO?