Poll - Adkins In or Out

[SydenhamRoyal]

For me the questions are not around the players ability or otherwise, but about one massive strategic error from Adkins, and one very telling statistic.

First, the strategic error - it was clear last season that our biggest problems were in defence, that is where we were weakest. Adkins has used wha little funds were available on the attack. He could, and should, have spent what little funds he had on improving the defence. Week in, week out, he is bemoaning the poor defending that is giving away soft goals, but the back 4 are immune to being dropped because there are no alternatives. Meanwhile, further up the field the players know not to put in a man of the match performance or they will be dropped for the next game. A real motivator ...

Now, the statistic. Twice under Adkins we have come from behind to win. TWICE. That is nothing to do with ability, not unles you are such a bad team that you never win anyway. BUt last season we were 7th, so we can clearly win games. Coming from behind twice in something like 60 games suggests it's all about character about motivation, about desire. McDermott's players would have run through walls for him. Adkins' players wont. Those of us who go games perceive a lack of pasion, effort etc on the pitch, but the statistic backs that up.

For me it's not about talent, it's not about money, it's not even really about results, or the attractiveness of the football, it's simply about the lack of desire - and that IS down to the manager. That is why I want him gone, not any short sightedness about current form.

[Pandoras Box]

Coming from behind twice in something like 60 games suggests it's all about character about motivation, about desire. McDermott's players would have run through walls for him. Adkins' players wont. Those of us who go games perceive a lack of passion, effort etc on the pitch, but the statistic backs that up

TRUE. I wasn't a big McD fan, but remember the 2-2 Chelsea at home - the 3-2 WBA at home, the Arsenal match and many more? Huge excitement and passion from all. Late goals, edge of the seat.
Now take Cardiff Friday. 2-1, 9 minutes to go (listening to the radio admittedly) all I heard was, throw in , passing about, goal kick, Cardiff corners, Cardiff smoking the cigar, reading notes ffs. Why weren't we hammering their goal, giving our all for a grand finale? We certainly would have under McD.

[ILoveMoonPig]

It depends on how you see Adkins' situation, as to whether you want rid of him.

He hasn't had a great deal of money here, but then he didn't at Southampton and they did well. He hasn't bought in a lot of players, but then part of the point of getting him, was that he would start to bring the youth players, which he has done quite well. Possibly still a bit soon for players like Kuhl and Taylor to be starting, but at least they've had some game time.

I think the major factor is our tactics. I'm willing to admit that I know almost nothing about tactics in football, but I still have no idea what exactly our preferred tactics are. Does anyone else? Under BMD and Coppell it was obvious, we got the ball out wide and got as many balls into the box as we could. Under Rodgers, it was to keep the ball with good, steady pass-move, pass-move, short passing possession football. But under Adkins, I have no idea. Sometimes direct, sometimes short passing, sometimes through the middle, it just seems a bit disorganised. A problem which is hindered by almost no off-the-ball movement at all. Nobody making runs, nobody looking for space and I think it's that which people find boring. It's not exciting. And that lack of excitement is probably why our crowds are dropping.

[under the tin]

For me the questions are not around the players ability or otherwise, but about one massive strategic error from Adkins, and one very telling statistic.

First, the strategic error - it was clear last season that our biggest problems were in defence, that is where we were weakest. Adkins has used wha little funds were available on the attack. He could, and should, have spent what little funds he had on improving the defence. Week in, week out, he is bemoaning the poor defending that is giving away soft goals, but the back 4 are immune to being dropped because there are no alternatives. Meanwhile, further up the field the players know not to put in a man of the match performance or they will be dropped for the next game. A real motivator ...

Now, the statistic. Twice under Adkins we have come from behind to win. TWICE. That is nothing to do with ability, not unles you are such a bad team that you never win anyway. BUt last season we were 7th, so we can clearly win games. Coming from behind twice in something like 60 games suggests it's all about character about motivation, about desire. McDermott's players would have run through walls for him. Adkins' players wont. Those of us who go games perceive a lack of pasion, effort etc on the pitch, but the statistic backs that up.

For me it's not about talent, it's not about money, it's not even really about results, or the attractiveness of the football, it's simply about the lack of desire - and that IS down to the manager. That is why I want him gone, not any short sightedness about current form.

For me, the thing that has slowly changed since the last elevation to the Prem is the "DNA" of the players.
The squad's character is wholly different from the Championship-winning side, and this, IMHO, has been affected by the subsequent arrivals, and the departures within that time frame.
It is utter revisionism to suggest that Guthrie would run through as much as a paper bag for Brian, who brought him here.
Equally, it is foolish to bash the current manager with the "players won't play for him" stick.
Compare Guthrie's attitude to that of Noel Hunt. Noel was technically limited as a player, but by God he was a trier. Chased everything. Never gave up. I don't believe for a second he was just doing this because Brian was the boss. He's just made that way.
Compare the vibes given out by the much maligned Jobi and Ledge against those from Pogrebnyak and Drenthe. I could go on and mention other expensive show-ponies we have acquired, but I think you will have already caught my drift.
Factor in the big miss in not having a big character like Karacan in the side, and it's hardly surprising that the team is mentally weak.
In the post- relegation clear out, it is apparent that more than merely the pure number of footballers were pruned.
The spirit within the club/squad has suffered, and the fans sense it.
Talent without desire, application, and heart serves no one. You could ask Drenthe, but I doubt he cares, as he is picking up a fat wage packet. So are many others here.

[Royal Rother]

What an excellent series of posts

Theres a lot of discussion about Adkins (of course) but I wonder whether we should also be looking at Crosby and Wilkins.

Fresh faces with new ideas might help, but that doesn't HAVE to mean Adkins should go. His past record is excellent and he absolutely knows what it takes to build a promotion side so players DO play for him.

I know the anti-Adkins sentiments are far more than knee-jerk as the squad has been under-performing for a while but in days gone by it often took years for things to click, and it was accepted that form ebbed and flowed from season to season. Ultimately patience was often rewarded. I'm not passionate about keeping Adkins as my heart isn't really in pro-football anymore (and the performances I've seen on TV / Internet in the last year or so have not particularly warmed my cockles overall) but I think it is worth giving him more time.

But in giving him more time I do believe the owners should be asking him for a thorough, warts and all honest review of what isn't working with specific instruction for focus on the back room team.

[Royality creeps In]

According to BBCRB Adkins and his "coaching" staff where handing notes out to the players on the pitch last night. They were reading them then throwing them on the floor. The Cardiff players then picked them up and read the instructions.

That's not what BBCRB said at all. And there's no need to make things up to justify an Adkins out post.

Well thats what I heard. What was your version of events

[SCIAG]

According to BBCRB Adkins and his "coaching" staff where handing notes out to the players on the pitch last night. They were reading them then throwing them on the floor. The Cardiff players then picked them up and read the instructions.

That's not what BBCRB said at all. And there's no need to make things up to justify an Adkins out post.

Well thats what I heard. What was your version of events

Notes were passed on. One of the BBCRB people worried that Cardiff players would pick them up and read them. That didn't actually happen.

[Royal Rother]

As if it would make any real difference anyway. Professional footballers react to what happens in the moment rather than any mid-match knowledge imparted about some subtle variation in what the opposition might be about to do.

[SCIAG]

An excellent post that I agree with in parts and disagree massively in others.

Some observations.

BM had built sides around Sigurdsson and Long only to have them sold under him late in the transfer window - to then achieve in those seasons without them was stunning management. Stunning.

Nigel Adkins is on record saying (at the start of last season) that a full back can play either left or right. Which is ridiculous and makes me think there might be more to just "individual errors" about our current defensive shambles.

I'm also intrigued that the much maligned Gorkss and Hunt (Noel) are now viewed as superstars when I was banging on about how good they were (to derision by the team board oxf*rd)

Agreed about McDermott. I imagine if he were still here then he'd be building a side around Norwood(/Kuhl/Guthrie) with our forwards constantly trying to get in behind the opposition's defence, or something along those lines.

Some full backs are equally capable on both sides. I'd point to Andy Hughes (as a full back), Chris Makin and Ulises De La Cruz as recent examples at this club. I don't know whether Adkins actually believes that's true of all full backs or whether he just didn't want to publicly say "yeah, Kelly's a bit shit at left back". Regardless, I think when you've got players like Pearce and Gunter making huge numbers of individual errors, you've got to wonder if there's a problem beyond them.

Gorkss was fantastic for us in his first season, I don't think many people have ever denied that. He started to decline a little at the end of the season and then his weaknesses were exposed in the PL. File alongside Sonko - though in fairness to Sonko he actually did very well before his injury, and managed to convince four respectable English clubs to employ him after us.

NHunt was a very useful player, if limited. I'd like to have him around now as an option to mix things up but I wouldn't have him ahead of Cox.

A very good, considered post.

In broader terms, it's interesting to see many of the people who are now supporting Adkins were those who wanted McDermott out. Personally I think it's now clear sacking McDermott was a mistake and was a short-sighted, perhaps idealistic reaction to a frustrating and disappointing season. We should have taken the hit and given a manager who'd proved himself here as an excellent Championship manager to have another go. Was the whole rebuild and attempt to significantly alter the style really necessary?

Comparing the different sides is difficult - I think McDermott's certainly 'overachieved', and this has 'underachieved'. A certain part of it though must be what the manager does with the players available to him. I remember Kebe and Long being much maligned before McDermott took over (and for Long even after McDermott had taken over) but McDermott's man-management got the best out of them. You could mention the resurgence of Shaun Cummings' career at the club too. How many players has Adkins got the best out of? How many players have improved under him? How many have gone backwards? If Adkins had handled certain players differently/better, would some of them still be here?

Personally I thought McDermott had earned himself more or less lifetime employment, as had Coppell, but he made some crucial and fairly obvious errors in the PL (most notably refusing to pick Guthrie and therefore making it impossible for us to play 4-5-1). If success was all we cared about then I think we should have got rid of McDermott much earlier in the season when we were throwing away points all over the shop. Maybe after Swansea away or Villa away.

I agree that several players improved under McDermott, though given that the previous manager was Rodgers, that isn't surprising. I'd argue that Adkins got the best out of McCleary, Le Fondre, Guthrie, and, particularly last season, Gunter. Oh, and Blackman has outperformed anyone's wildest expectations this season. This season we've seen a decline in performances from Federici, Pearce, Gunter, HRK and Pogrebnyak. It might take something radical to sort that out.

[mambo3]

No need to give reasons one way or another.

In any walk of life, if you are a Manager, your job is to manage staff and/or services. If you cannot motivate staff or services are not maintained at least at the same level then you are removed.

Managers have there budgets reduced and have to work within perimeters.

That's life

[Royality creeps In]

Adkins or Rodgers???
Who will be first to go.

[Royal Lady]

Adkins or Rodgers???
Who will be first to go.

Both would make my day, as long as we didn't get Rodgers back here!

[Royal Rother]

Never understood how Reading fans could wish ill on one of their own who never did the dirty on the club.

The fact he tried his best in management here but it didn't work out surely does not undo the years as a young player and of excellent work and loyalty he showed in his formative years in coaching.

Why it would make someone's day if he got sacked is very very strange to me.

Even if most of us moved on many years ago, ill feeling towards McGhee and Pardew make some sense to me, but not Rodgers.

Oh well, takes all sorts I suppose.

[marcusopp]

Never understood how Reading fans could wish ill on one of their own who never did the dirty on the club.

The fact he tried his best in management here but it didn't work out surely does not undo the years as a young player and of excellent work and loyalty he showed in his formative years in coaching.

Why it would make someone's day if he got sacked is very very strange to me.

Even if most of us moved on many years ago, ill feeling towards McGhee and Pardew make some sense to me, but not Rodgers.

Oh well, takes all sorts I suppose.

Yeah, but he is a complete nob though. As is Adkins.
At least SSC and BM are decent blokes who don't use fake tan.

[sandman]

Never understood how Reading fans could wish ill on one of their own who never did the dirty on the club.

The fact he tried his best in management here but it didn't work out surely does not undo the years as a young player and of excellent work and loyalty he showed in his formative years in coaching.

Why it would make someone's day if he got sacked is very very strange to me.

Even if most of us moved on many years ago, ill feeling towards McGhee and Pardew make some sense to me, but not Rodgers.

Oh well, takes all sorts I suppose.

Probably the same reason most people don't like arrogant, buzz word spouting tossers because they're arrogant, buzz word spouting tossers.

[Royal Rother]

That's quite obviously not the real person though is it now?

That's the slightly awkward, still relatively inexperienced, young manager not entirely comfortable with media attention and the personality / vocabulary he's created to deal with it all.

[sandman]

Yeah I'm sure the real bloke, the one who left his wife for a younger model as soon as he got a bit of success, is really just a stand up guy.

[AthleticoSpizz]

so what went wrong for Schards?..........................boom tish etc

Went through his home town of Carnlough a few weeks ago and seriously, picturesque though it is, it's understandable to see why he must be like that kid in the proverbial sweetshop these days.

[Royal Rother]

Yeah I'm sure the real bloke, the one who left his wife for a younger model as soon as he got a bit of success, is really just a stand up guy.

Yeah, let's judge him on that as well. Priceless.

[Froomes]

That's quite obviously not the real person though is it now?

Yeah I'm sure the real bloke, the one who left his wife for a younger model as soon as he got a bit of success, is really just a stand up guy.

Yeah, let's judge him on that as well. Priceless.

So you don't like it when he gets judged on his media persona and moan that that's not the real person (I can understand your point on that completely, although I disagree with it) and then you moan when he does get judged as a real person?

So basically you're saying we're not allowed to judge him?