where did it all go wrong?

[Baggie192]

Apologies if this is a naive question but as title. when we were both in the prem last I thought you had squad that hadn't quite gelled into a team at that time. You always struck as well run. although I don't support you, I quite like you and always have. So, whats gone wrong?

[strap]

You can actually chart our problems way back in 1970/71 when "The Board", in their infinite wisdom, decided to sack Jack Mansell after a dismal run that left us in dire straits towards the foot of old Div 4.

In a few short months he had transformed us into the original "tippy tappy" team that Barca, (amongst many others), have subsequently copied and tried to convince the world that they invented.

True RFC followers of course know the truth. Yes, it could be argued that the Div 4 teams of the day "found us out", but had Jack been given more time, I am convinced he could have taken us a long long way.

This is honestly NOT a wind up. The football his team played in 69/70 was a joy to behold, and it was solely his style of play that got this, (then 11 year old), nut job hooked on RFC.

Since those days, we have witnessed the honest endeavours of teams created by Charlie Hurley and Maurice Evans, the hoof-ball of Ian Branfoot, the dire DIRE crap served up by the likes of Porterfield, Bullivant and the charlatons Burns and Bodgers, along with the often entertaining fare produced by McGhee (spit), Pardew (spit), the Quinn/Gooding hero combo, as well as the modern wonders of Sir Steve Coppell and the unlucky McDermott.

This brings up to the present, and probably the real cause of our current plight. Nigel Adkins was given a posioned chalice by the Russian conmen, and if we are to be totally honest, he behaved like an impecable gentlemen, what with all the behind the scenes crap he had to deal with. His style of play was perhaps less than acceptbale. However, I believe history will only be able to judge him fairly once the full truth of the Russian's parsimonious behaviour comes to light.

Let us hope that the Thai's behave in a more honest manner than the Russians. Based on generic national traits, it would seem that this is not a forlorn hope. The appointment of Steve Clarke would appear on the surface to be a sensible and proactive move, and it is clear we need a coach far more than a manager right now.

Apologies, that was written with the benefit of a bottle of red wine.

In short, the answwr to your question is - Anton Zingaravich.

Hope that helps.

[royalp-we]

^hero

[Esteban]

We're essentially a small club, from a place with a small town mentality. We've had a fairly large influx of people from London, who all brought club loyalties with them. You find a lot of West Ham, Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea and QPR fans around. It's only on the past ten years or so that we've had consecutive seasons in the Championship, with a few flirtations with the Premier League. As a result, we don't have a large fan base, although we do pick up quite a few casual fans in periods of success.

Add to that an owner who either didn't want to, or couldn't afford to invest in the squad to Premier League levels, followed by a sale to a Russian who had even less money (but spent it anyway) and you have problem.

[Armadillo Roadkill]

For a club that has bumped around the lower two divisions for most of it's very long but not especially distinguished existence, I'd say that in the last fifteen year a hell of a lot has gone right.

And although one should never take it for granted - because as any Sheffield United, Leeds, Swansea, Portsmouth, Notts County and Preston NE fan can tell you, past performance is no guarantee of future success - things have hardly gone massively wrong yet at Reading.

[robinfridayfan]

I agree.
I first watched Reading in the early 60s at Elm Park.
We are essentially a small club that has benefited from having a good local economy, a large catchment area and Sir John.
Many of the fans who come to the Mad stad now have other "big " teams they support.
Recent times [ the last decade plus ] have been amazing in terms of the history of the club.
I remember standing behind the goal at the tilehurst end at Elm Park in the 1970s when there were less than 2000 fans in the ground [ including away support !]
We were struggling against Aldershot and "big" teams like Wrexham !
I remember Bury were our bogey team who beat us 5-1 home and away one season !
If we stay in the championship this season it will still be one of the best dozen or so seasons we have had as a club in over 100 years of mostly crap !
So dont get despondent. Just watch videos of the 2005/6 season [ my favourite in 50 years of watching the biscuit men - oops sorry "royals"] It will come again.
Life these days is too knee jerk

[Baggie192]

You can actually chart our problems way back in 1970/71 when "The Board", in their infinite wisdom, decided to sack Jack Mansell after a dismal run that left us in dire straits towards the foot of old Div 4.

In a few short months he had transformed us into the original "tippy tappy" team that Barca, (amongst many others), have subsequently copied and tried to convince the world that they invented.

True RFC followers of course know the truth. Yes, it could be argued that the Div 4 teams of the day "found us out", but had Jack been given more time, I am convinced he could have taken us a long long way.

This is honestly NOT a wind up. The football his team played in 69/70 was a joy to behold, and it was solely his style of play that got this, (then 11 year old), nut job hooked on RFC.

Since those days, we have witnessed the honest endeavours of teams created by Charlie Hurley and Maurice Evans, the hoof-ball of Ian Branfoot, the dire DIRE crap served up by the likes of Porterfield, Bullivant and the charlatons Burns and Bodgers, along with the often entertaining fare produced by McGhee (spit), Pardew (spit), the Quinn/Gooding hero combo, as well as the modern wonders of Sir Steve Coppell and the unlucky McDermott.

This brings up to the present, and probably the real cause of our current plight. Nigel Adkins was given a posioned chalice by the Russian conmen, and if we are to be totally honest, he behaved like an impecable gentlemen, what with all the behind the scenes crap he had to deal with. His style of play was perhaps less than acceptbale. However, I believe history will only be able to judge him fairly once the full truth of the Russian's parsimonious behaviour comes to light.

Let us hope that the Thai's behave in a more honest manner than the Russians. Based on generic national traits, it would seem that this is not a forlorn hope. The appointment of Steve Clarke would appear on the surface to be a sensible and proactive move, and it is clear we need a coach far more than a manager right now.

Apologies, that was written with the benefit of a bottle of red wine.

In short, the answwr to your question is - Anton Zingaravich.

Hope that helps.

Thank you sir, for such an awesome answer. It's a shame, Sir John sold up, but, thats footy now I suppose. We had our problems from the late 80's until th early 00's. We didn't get back to "the true footballing West Bromwich Albion of the 70's" when RDM was appointed. Sadly, we'd reached the point where yo-yoing wasn't going to benefit us anymore. This brought The Hodgson Era which saw us somewhat stabilise.

Sadly, we lost both Roy and our DOF who were poached by the FA. Ashworth the DOF worked a season's notice though, so was in office during Clarke's first season. That where we made our mistake the DOF's replacement wasn't good. That's what Clarke needs most of all a strong DOF. His summer window last year was a disaster I hold my hands up and say it's as much fault of club as it was Clarke's. He was able to break our transfer record twice with Stephane Sessegnon and Victor Anichebe who have now found there places in the club. I would say the most important thing for Reading to do, is get him best DOF possible because he isn't a manager and was never hired by us to be one

[tmesis]

I think we spent so long with things just seeming to click into place, we didn't know how to cope when things started to slide.

It caused us to seemingly have a "ah....we'll be fine" attitude to running the club, which meant we didn't kick on and progress at key times, especially after finishing 8th in the premier league in 2007.

I think our scouting was also very poor once we got into the premier league (both times) and we struggled to buy players who were any better than the players we already had.

You can also only carry on a policy of selling your best players to balance the books for so long before it takes a toll. It didn't help that we were in a weak position in the last transfer window.


At the moment it feels like the club has lost all momentum and is just drifting along, with no determination to improve, or any idea how to even try to.

[strap]

You can actually chart our problems way back in 1970/71 when "The Board", in their infinite wisdom, decided to sack Jack Mansell after a dismal run that left us in dire straits towards the foot of old Div 4.

In a few short months he had transformed us into the original "tippy tappy" team that Barca, (amongst many others), have subsequently copied and tried to convince the world that they invented.

True RFC followers of course know the truth. Yes, it could be argued that the Div 4 teams of the day "found us out", but had Jack been given more time, I am convinced he could have taken us a long long way.

This is honestly NOT a wind up. The football his team played in 69/70 was a joy to behold, and it was solely his style of play that got this, (then 11 year old), nut job hooked on RFC.

Since those days, we have witnessed the honest endeavours of teams created by Charlie Hurley and Maurice Evans, the hoof-ball of Ian Branfoot, the dire DIRE crap served up by the likes of Porterfield, Bullivant and the charlatons Burns and Bodgers, along with the often entertaining fare produced by McGhee (spit), Pardew (spit), the Quinn/Gooding hero combo, as well as the modern wonders of Sir Steve Coppell and the unlucky McDermott.

This brings up to the present, and probably the real cause of our current plight. Nigel Adkins was given a posioned chalice by the Russian conmen, and if we are to be totally honest, he behaved like an impecable gentlemen, what with all the behind the scenes crap he had to deal with. His style of play was perhaps less than acceptbale. However, I believe history will only be able to judge him fairly once the full truth of the Russian's parsimonious behaviour comes to light.

Let us hope that the Thai's behave in a more honest manner than the Russians. Based on generic national traits, it would seem that this is not a forlorn hope. The appointment of Steve Clarke would appear on the surface to be a sensible and proactive move, and it is clear we need a coach far more than a manager right now.

Apologies, that was written with the benefit of a bottle of red wine.

In short, the answwr to your question is - Anton Zingaravich.

Hope that helps.

Thank you sir, for such an awesome answer. It's a shame, Sir John sold up, but, thats footy now I suppose. We had our problems from the late 80's until th early 00's. We didn't get back to "the true footballing West Bromwich Albion of the 70's" when RDM was appointed. Sadly, we'd reached the point where yo-yoing wasn't going to benefit us anymore. This brought The Hodgson Era which saw us somewhat stabilise.

Sadly, we lost both Roy and our DOF who were poached by the FA. Ashworth the DOF worked a season's notice though, so was in office during Clarke's first season. That where we made our mistake the DOF's replacement wasn't good. That's what Clarke needs most of all a strong DOF. His summer window last year was a disaster I hold my hands up and say it's as much fault of club as it was Clarke's. He was able to break our transfer record twice with Stephane Sessegnon and Victor Anichebe who have now found there places in the club. I would say the most important thing for Reading to do, is get him best DOF possible because he isn't a manager and was never hired by us to be one

I think you hit the nail there. A strong DoF is vital these days, and whilst Nick(y) Hammond has had his critics, (and on many occasions I can be lumped into that category), history shows him to be a mean negotiator. I mean, £6M for Kevin Doyle, £5.5M for Dave Kitson, £3M for Kebe, not to mention £500k for Andy Hughes!!!! Clearly NH knows what he's doing. You must have been gutted when England stripped you of your main team. Scant consolation that it's a huge compliment to what RH and his team achieved for you.

With a bit of luck, with SC on the training ground, and NH upstairs, (and please don't forget the amazing work done by Eamon Dolan with the Academy), the upcoming couple of years could be OK for us. Alan Sedunary, (who along with David Downs must rank as the best stattos in the FL - we are extremely fortunate to have them dedicated to RFC), said to me a few years ago that these are RFC's Golden Years. He's been around since God was a boy supporting RFC, and if he says that, then you know it's true.

As others have posted here, the last 15 years have actually been the height of RFC's long history. On reflection, it does make me smile when the newer supporters voice concern at our current predicament. They are of course entitled to their opinion, however, I think due note should be made of where we have come from. Without wishing to appear sychphantic, if in the next 5 years we can reach the heights WBA currently exhibit, I for one will be immensely satisfied!

Good luck for the rest of the season!

[Ian Royal]

Thank you sir, for such an awesome answer. It's a shame, Sir John sold up, but, thats footy now I suppose. We had our problems from the late 80's until th early 00's. We didn't get back to "the true footballing West Bromwich Albion of the 70's" when RDM was appointed. Sadly, we'd reached the point where yo-yoing wasn't going to benefit us anymore. This brought The Hodgson Era which saw us somewhat stabilise.

Sadly, we lost both Roy and our DOF who were poached by the FA. Ashworth the DOF worked a season's notice though, so was in office during Clarke's first season. That where we made our mistake the DOF's replacement wasn't good. That's what Clarke needs most of all a strong DOF. His summer window last year was a disaster I hold my hands up and say it's as much fault of club as it was Clarke's. He was able to break our transfer record twice with Stephane Sessegnon and Victor Anichebe who have now found there places in the club. I would say the most important thing for Reading to do, is get him best DOF possible because he isn't a manager and was never hired by us to be one

Sadly, SJM only ever had about £450m at his richest and football was never his passion. He grew to love us and it, but it had always been about putting something back into the community, so risking losing megabucks wasn't an option.

And then the recession hit and he's lost close to half his fortune by now, with many of his other businesses getting in big trouble. He was invested in print journalism - never a good idea in the modern world, and property development when things crashed. Plus he's getting quite long in the tooth and was never keen on the wages footballers earn.

That's probably the best bit of news you can give us, as Hammond, our DoF, despite getting a poor rap from our own fans, does a really good job mostly. He negotiates hard and gets good value for sales, without risking mega bucks. Although our record of 'big' signings is terrible, that's surely what you'd expect for a club with very little experience of big signings or players. I think it's been getting better, bar the Russian influence.

Gunter >>> Halford
Mariappa >>>>>>>> Mills
Williams >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fae

[Lower West]

where did it all go wrong?

Isn't that football? In general there's a new breed of supporter who believes that there team has a right to sit at the top table.

Football should be treated like a soap opera. What ever may be may be.

[Pseud O'Nym]

Eve tasted the fruit of the forbidden tree.

[Millsy]

Apologies if this is a naive question but as title. when we were both in the prem last I thought you had squad that hadn't quite gelled into a team at that time. You always struck as well run. although I don't support you, I quite like you and always have. So, whats gone wrong?

Money.

A want away chairman who most of us could see could not sustain is any longer. Most of us could see the massive cracks appearing in the club when we bizarrely chose not to invest in the Prem the first time round. Most of of us that is except club apologists and those who are a little thick.

Then we got Anton and again alarm bells should have been ringing when money wasn't ploughed in and instead our best were sold. Most of us could see the massive cracks continuing in the club when we bizarrely chose not to invest in the Prem again. Most of of us that is except club apologists and those who are a little thick.

Now he's gone too, it has become clear what has been going on and the fact is we've been in a financial "transitional" period for a few years. Most of of us could see that except club apologists and those who are a little thick.

Adkins was caught up in all that poor chap and we've slid down.

Hopefully when we're settled again financially we'll pick back up and do well again.

[Mike Hunt]

You can actually chart our problems way back in 1970/71 when "The Board", in their infinite wisdom, decided to sack Jack Mansell after a dismal run that left us in dire straits towards the foot of old Div 4.

In a few short months he had transformed us into the original "tippy tappy" team that Barca, (amongst many others), have subsequently copied and tried to convince the world that they invented.

True RFC followers of course know the truth. Yes, it could be argued that the Div 4 teams of the day "found us out", but had Jack been given more time, I am convinced he could have taken us a long long way.

This is honestly NOT a wind up. The football his team played in 69/70 was a joy to behold, and it was solely his style of play that got this, (then 11 year old), nut job hooked on RFC.

Since those days, we have witnessed the honest endeavours of teams created by Charlie Hurley and Maurice Evans, the hoof-ball of Ian Branfoot, the dire DIRE crap served up by the likes of Porterfield, Bullivant and the charlatons Burns and Bodgers, along with the often entertaining fare produced by McGhee (spit), Pardew (spit), the Quinn/Gooding hero combo, as well as the modern wonders of Sir Steve Coppell and the unlucky McDermott.

This brings up to the present, and probably the real cause of our current plight. Nigel Adkins was given a posioned chalice by the Russian conmen, and if we are to be totally honest, he behaved like an impecable gentlemen, what with all the behind the scenes crap he had to deal with. His style of play was perhaps less than acceptbale. However, I believe history will only be able to judge him fairly once the full truth of the Russian's parsimonious behaviour comes to light.

Let us hope that the Thai's behave in a more honest manner than the Russians. Based on generic national traits, it would seem that this is not a forlorn hope. The appointment of Steve Clarke would appear on the surface to be a sensible and proactive move, and it is clear we need a coach far more than a manager right now.

Apologies, that was written with the benefit of a bottle of red wine.

In short, the answwr to your question is - Anton Zingaravich.

Hope that helps.

[leon]

We're essentially a small club, from a place with a small town mentality. We've had a fairly large influx of people from London, who all brought club loyalties with them. You find a lot of West Ham, Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea and QPR fans around. It's only on the past ten years or so that we've had consecutive seasons in the Championship, with a few flirtations with the Premier League. As a result, we don't have a large fan base, although we do pick up quite a few casual fans in periods of success.

Add to that an owner who either didn't want to, or couldn't afford to invest in the squad to Premier League levels, followed by a sale to a Russian who had even less money (but spent it anyway) and you have problem.

what an absolute load of bollocks. I bet you're an Arsenal fan.

Our fan base over the last 20 years has increased dramatically. We're now an established 2nd tier club. A major improvement on where we were 20 years ago.

What is the "small town mentality" Reading has? Have you been to actual proper small towns in Britain?

[RoyallyFcuked]

Great post by strap. Interesting insight into the old days and spot on about the AZ/Adkins saga.

Come on here after a few glasses more often...

[marlowuk]

Apologies if this is a naive question but as title. when we were both in the prem last I thought you had squad that hadn't quite gelled into a team at that time. You always struck as well run. although I don't support you, I quite like you and always have. So, whats gone wrong?

Most of us could see the massive cracks appearing in the club when we bizarrely chose not to invest in the Prem the first time round.

But in that season we finished in 8th position in that Premier League - the most successful season in our entire history. I think the only significant investment we made that year was for Seol (although Duberry and Bikey were used). This probably encouraged complacency in the team. If we can finish so high with these players , why is there a need to invest significantly for the next season? And that complacency was our downfall!

But we are still experiencing the golden years of Reading FC. Those dark, cold, wet afternoons/evenings at Elm Park in the old 3rd and 4th divisions are in the past and are something that new supporters (which we welcome with open arms) have never had to experience!

So I will be there on Saturday hoping that the impetus of a new manager can enable us to gain at least a point against a free-scoring Watford side. But, if it all goes pear-shaped, I will remember that it is, at least, better than the old days!!!

[Dick Habbin's hairdo]

You can actually chart our problems way back in 1970/71 when "The Board", in their infinite wisdom, decided to sack Jack Mansell after a dismal run that left us in dire straits towards the foot of old Div 4.

In a few short months he had transformed us into the original "tippy tappy" team that Barca, (amongst many others), have subsequently copied and tried to convince the world that they invented.

True RFC followers of course know the truth. Yes, it could be argued that the Div 4 teams of the day "found us out", but had Jack been given more time, I am convinced he could have taken us a long long way.

This is honestly NOT a wind up. The football his team played in 69/70 was a joy to behold, and it was solely his style of play that got this, (then 11 year old), nut job hooked on RFC.

Since those days, we have witnessed the honest endeavours of teams created by Charlie Hurley and Maurice Evans, the hoof-ball of Ian Branfoot, the dire DIRE crap served up by the likes of Porterfield, Bullivant and the charlatons Burns and Bodgers, along with the often entertaining fare produced by McGhee (spit), Pardew (spit), the Quinn/Gooding hero combo, as well as the modern wonders of Sir Steve Coppell and the unlucky McDermott.

This brings up to the present, and probably the real cause of our current plight. Nigel Adkins was given a posioned chalice by the Russian conmen, and if we are to be totally honest, he behaved like an impecable gentlemen, what with all the behind the scenes crap he had to deal with. His style of play was perhaps less than acceptbale. However, I believe history will only be able to judge him fairly once the full truth of the Russian's parsimonious behaviour comes to light.

Let us hope that the Thai's behave in a more honest manner than the Russians. Based on generic national traits, it would seem that this is not a forlorn hope. The appointment of Steve Clarke would appear on the surface to be a sensible and proactive move, and it is clear we need a coach far more than a manager right now.

Apologies, that was written with the benefit of a bottle of red wine.

In short, the answwr to your question is - Anton Zingaravich.

Hope that helps.

The perfect post. Quoted in full. Absolutely nailed it. End of thread.

[From Despair To Where?]

Great post Strap.

Anton Zingaravich promised us the moon on a stick and gave us a big shit on a stick.

He came in and bought the club on a bit of a buy now, pay later deal, talking of continuing the "Reading Way" of prudent, managed investment and to an extent it's what they did at the start, signing Roberts and securing the longer term future of the better players like Kebe but it worked too well. We got promoted on the back of an incredible run of 46 out of 51 points from the close of the January transfer window and won the league with an honest, hard working, but limited squad.

He then went bonkers and started playing Football Manager very badly with the club, spaffing money about like confetti on big money deals for pretty average players and all the time it was really Daddy's money and daddy got pissed off and said no more.

We then got relegated and continued signing inconsistent show ponies with dubious fitness and commitment issues with money we didn't have. Daddy grounded Anton and we were left in the shit, with a 51% shareholder who wasn't allowed out to play. We missed out on the play offs thanks to a 90th Minute Brighton winner on the last day of the season (it was fair enough, we weren't good enough) and the likes of the Inland Revenue came knocking, asking for their money. One mini fire sale and a mad scramble to find anyone with the readies available to pull us out of the shit and we are now indebted to Yoko Ono's grandmother and a bunch of invisible Thai business men for not being 10 points worse off. We've not heard anything really from them other than through their little mascot Samrit on Facebook but I suppose it will take some time for them to get their heads round the shit we find ourselves in but my gut feeling is that they will be a steadying hand.

To be fair to Adkins, he maintained his dignity throughout in what must have been very trying circumstances but unfortunately, although hampered greatly by injuries, he is judged by events on the pitch and we played better when the injuries were at it's worst and the team was full of academy players. Performances and results have lurched from largely uninspiring to utterly shambolic.

And the moral of the story? If a foreign investor comes knocking on your door promising you a good time, ask to see the money before jumping into bed with him.

[nailseabiscuitman]

You can actually chart our problems way back in 1970/71 when "The Board", in their infinite wisdom, decided to sack Jack Mansell after a dismal run that left us in dire straits towards the foot of old Div 4.

In a few short months he had transformed us into the original "tippy tappy" team that Barca, (amongst many others), have subsequently copied and tried to convince the world that they invented.

True RFC followers of course know the truth. Yes, it could be argued that the Div 4 teams of the day "found us out", but had Jack been given more time, I am convinced he could have taken us a long long way.

This is honestly NOT a wind up. The football his team played in 69/70 was a joy to behold, and it was solely his style of play that got this, (then 11 year old), nut job hooked on RFC.

Since those days, we have witnessed the honest endeavours of teams created by Charlie Hurley and Maurice Evans, the hoof-ball of Ian Branfoot, the dire DIRE crap served up by the likes of Porterfield, Bullivant and the charlatons Burns and Bodgers, along with the often entertaining fare produced by McGhee (spit), Pardew (spit), the Quinn/Gooding hero combo, as well as the modern wonders of Sir Steve Coppell and the unlucky McDermott.

This brings up to the present, and probably the real cause of our current plight. Nigel Adkins was given a posioned chalice by the Russian conmen, and if we are to be totally honest, he behaved like an impecable gentlemen, what with all the behind the scenes crap he had to deal with. His style of play was perhaps less than acceptbale. However, I believe history will only be able to judge him fairly once the full truth of the Russian's parsimonious behaviour comes to light.

Let us hope that the Thai's behave in a more honest manner than the Russians. Based on generic national traits, it would seem that this is not a forlorn hope. The appointment of Steve Clarke would appear on the surface to be a sensible and proactive move, and it is clear we need a coach far more than a manager right now.

Apologies, that was written with the benefit of a bottle of red wine.

In short, the answwr to your question is - Anton Zingaravich.

Hope that helps.

All oh so true. This was also the era that really hooked me as a Reading fan and if I remember rightly Mansell wanted to sign a ball playing centre half whose name escapes me but wasn't backed by the board. This is not just another rose tinted glasses wearing oldie speaking, but the end result didn't seem to be the sole reason for supporting the team then, it was just the pleasure of the journey. In these days of huge wage packets and even bigger egos some of the joy has disappeared. Dick Habbin even worked on a building site during the summer ! Even back in those days there were still villains though. For AZ read Frank Waller !