BFTG Huddersfield

[Man Friday]

If we were out of the cup, I'm sure the manager would be less likely to rest players
but right now we have a serious chance of getting to Wembley, and, if we do that,
we might actually get to the final.

As long as the club does enough to avoid relegation, I think our strategy should
be FA-Cup and Wembley based


There's another thread on relegation v Wembley, but I'd take finishing fourth-bottom and making
the final over finishing 6th.

+1.

[Man Friday]

In reply to Mags and Wycombe-I don't agree that there is fatigue.
I could trot out stuff about the mighty Liverpool where some players played 72 games in a season (nearly all high pressure games) using a squad of just 15 and about travel, diet etc all being better/easier but strictly focusing on our club I don't agree with your comments.
Apart from Obita and Frederici all the players have had rests whether that be through suspension, injury or being dropped so the players as a whole have played nowhere near the maximum and nor will they in the coming weeks for the same reasons.

Middlesborough cocked up on Saturday with the manager resting Tomlin and Bamford, their best two front men, and thy lost.
They might well have lost anyway but I think managers just try to be too clever.

You are wrong about the top teams-Barcelona, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich hardly ever rest players nor even Chelsea.
I take the point about a manager needing to look at players but there are U21 and League Cup games as well as 4 or 5 training sessions every week to suss whether anybody looks in form or is in fact any good.

Come the end of the season we will know if last night mattered but , unless a team is regularly losing, I do believe that the best players should play every game and players are probably more tired because they are told that they should be tired.

I mainly agree with what you say but the leagues that Barcelona etc play in are much, much, easier and can't be used as a comparator. I also believe this explains why they are so superior to British teams.

[Wycombe Royal]

Well you have to wonder why the football clubs employ teams of sports scientists, physios and trainers, because as we have now heard on HNA fatigue isn't an issue and players don't need to be rested. The club might as well save their money and just refer to this forum for advice.

For those of us in the real world we can accept that after the run of fixtures we have had there would be some fatigue in the squad, and whilst 6 changes may have been over doing it, we can also understand why the changes were made and the motivation behind them. So it didn't pay off last night but it doesn't really matter that much, but I do have sympathy with those who made the trip and I applaud you for making that effort.

[Ouroboros]

It did us pretty much no harm whatsoever. As I recall, our cup record under Coppell was to mostly, if not exclusively, to lose to exactly the teams you'd expect us to, and dispatch those below us.

Well, if Clarke had rested 6 against Derby and we'd lost you could have said the same about that.

You say that like it's some winning argument.

Er... well feel free to rebut it then.

If you don't play your best side in the cups, you're unlikely to beat teams you didn't "expect" to. Coppell's side lost away at Birmingham, then a mediocre Premiership side. Not expected to win there any more than we were at Derby, but this time we gave ourselves the best chance.

It's somewhat churlish to criticise, given what we achieved in the leagues, I know.

And none of this is to defend Clarke's particular choices last night.

[Whatevs]

In reply to Mags and Wycombe-I don't agree that there is fatigue.
I could trot out stuff about the mighty Liverpool where some players played 72 games in a season (nearly all high pressure games) using a squad of just 15 and about travel, diet etc all being better/easier but strictly focusing on our club I don't agree with your comments.
Apart from Obita and Frederici all the players have had rests whether that be through suspension, injury or being dropped so the players as a whole have played nowhere near the maximum and nor will they in the coming weeks for the same reasons.

Middlesborough cocked up on Saturday with the manager resting Tomlin and Bamford, their best two front men, and thy lost.
They might well have lost anyway but I think managers just try to be too clever.

You are wrong about the top teams-Barcelona, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich hardly ever rest players nor even Chelsea.
I take the point about a manager needing to look at players but there are U21 and League Cup games as well as 4 or 5 training sessions every week to suss whether anybody looks in form or is in fact any good.

Come the end of the season we will know if last night mattered but , unless a team is regularly losing, I do believe that the best players should play every game and players are probably more tired because they are told that they should be tired.

I mainly agree with what you say but the leagues that Barcelona etc play in are much, much, easier and can't be used as a comparator. I also believe this explains why they are so superior to British teams.

Clearly this is Bollox based on actual results in Europe over the last ten years.

2005 Liverpool - Champions (Chelsea made SF)
2006 Arsenal - Finalists (Utd/Chelsea made SF)
2007 Liverpool - Finalists
2008 Man Utd - Champions (Chelsea Finalists, Liverpool SF)
2009 Man Utd - Finalists (Arsenal/Chelsea SF)
2011 Man Utd - Finalists (Spurs/Chelsea QF)
2012 Chelsea - Champions
2014 Chelsea SF, Man U QF

[winchester_royal]

Except they haven't been. Clarke's been rotating the squad so much most of the players have been "playing" if you can call what they do, barely once a week.

lolwut

[RoyallyFcuked]

oxf*rd me it was bad. I'm guessing the performances against Leeds and Wigan at home were similar. Another mystifying team selection. I understand sometimes we need to rest players and try new things but were the changes to that extent really necessary? I guess he has to try and give each player a chance, especially as some of them are playing for their futures. On that showing, get most of them out and start again. We manage to scrape a win/draw and Clarke must think "Well that was poor and we were lucky, gotta make some changes", then when he does that its "Oh god, this is even worse".

It didnt take me long to lose count of how many stray passes there were. It seems we can only pass the ball sideways without giving it away. Occasionally an individual player will make a nice touch or lay off but there's either no one there for it or it gets given away by the next player. Our final ball is always desperately lacking as well.

Some shocking marking for the first goal and a free header. Think it was Hector who lost his man but Pearce had even more of a nightmare tbh and looks a mistake waiting to happen. What kind of example is that setting to the rest of the players? I think Hector will only get worse playing next to him. We were lucky not to be 2 down at half time after he (Pearce) had a comical mix up with Federici who also had a shocker and was at fault for the 2nd and 3rd goals.

Without a doubt the game confirmed Chalobah and Williams is our strongest CM pairing and the only pairing we have that is worth having. Norwood and Akpan are pretty pointless and Guthrie is as good as finished. We are in serious need of a playmaker and none of those players are the answer.

Poor Yakubu must be wondering why he signed for us. Hoofing the ball up to him isnt going to work, just like it doesnt work with Pog. He has a far better touch and doesnt get pushed off the ball as easy as Pog but there's only so much you can do with overhit passes with your back to goal about 40 yards away from the net. We failed to create one chance for him.

I would have liked to do one of my lengthy post match posts (this isnt lengthy by my standards) but I can't be bothered to talk about this game anymore. The OP has already covered most of it anyway but seriously it was awful. I don't think I've been embarrassed to be an RFC fan before but that was embarrassing. Huddersfield were gash and we made them look ok. The players need to take a good look at themselves.

[sandman]

In reply to Mags and Wycombe-I don't agree that there is fatigue.
I could trot out stuff about the mighty Liverpool where some players played 72 games in a season (nearly all high pressure games) using a squad of just 15 and about travel, diet etc all being better/easier but strictly focusing on our club I don't agree with your comments.
Apart from Obita and Frederici all the players have had rests whether that be through suspension, injury or being dropped so the players as a whole have played nowhere near the maximum and nor will they in the coming weeks for the same reasons.

Middlesborough cocked up on Saturday with the manager resting Tomlin and Bamford, their best two front men, and thy lost.
They might well have lost anyway but I think managers just try to be too clever.

You are wrong about the top teams-Barcelona, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich hardly ever rest players nor even Chelsea.
I take the point about a manager needing to look at players but there are U21 and League Cup games as well as 4 or 5 training sessions every week to suss whether anybody looks in form or is in fact any good.

Come the end of the season we will know if last night mattered but , unless a team is regularly losing, I do believe that the best players should play every game and players are probably more tired because they are told that they should be tired.

I mainly agree with what you say but the leagues that Barcelona etc play in are much, much, easier and can't be used as a comparator. I also believe this explains why they are so superior to British teams.

Bit of an ignorant statement there. If that were true then Barcelona wouldn't have lost to the likes of Celta Vigo, Real Sociedad and Malaga this season. Real Madrid wouldn't have gone two nil up and ended up losing 4-2 to Sociedad or been beaten by Valencia and Atletico Madrid.

La Liga is entering a golden age at the moment with three teams being capable of winning it and Valencia being backed by a rich new owner has the potential to possibly add a fourth to that list. Then you have teams like Sevilla and Villarreal who are very dangerous on their day.

If the top teams play to their potential then they win but that happens in all the top leagues including the Premier League which will, barring a massive shock, be won by Chelsea this season.

[Snowball]

It was easy to look at the Reading v Leeds fixture and think
Leeds were crap, but this was their run in and around our game

1-1 A Bolton
1-1 H Birmingham
1-0 H Bournemouth
2-1 A Huddersfield T
0-1 H Brentford
2-0 A Reading
1-0 H Millwall
1-0 A Middlesboro



Our game was 3/4 of the way through P8 W5 D2 L1 9-4 17 points = auto-promotion form


OK then they lost to Brighton, but they were clearly on a very good run
when they played us.

.

[batgrofla]

""It was easy to look at the Reading v Leeds fixture and think
Leeds were crap, but this was their run in and around our game

1-1 A Bolton
1-1 H Birmingham
1-0 H Bournemouth
2-1 A Huddersfield T
0-1 H Brentford
2-0 A Reading
1-0 H Millwall
1-0 A Middlesboro""


You can make stats into whatever you like.

In this great run, Leeds only managed to score 2 goals twice, once again us and the other.....

[Snowball]

""It was easy to look at the Reading v Leeds fixture and think
Leeds were crap, but this was their run in and around our game

1-1 A Bolton
1-1 H Birmingham
1-0 H Bournemouth
2-1 A Huddersfield T
0-1 H Brentford
2-0 A Reading
1-0 H Millwall
1-0 A Middlesboro""


You can make stats into whatever you like.

In this great run, Leeds only managed to score 2 goals twice, once again us and the other.....

and beat two table-topping teams. They were beating us 1-0 too
but a late extra when we were chasing the game.

and they only conceded 4 goals in eight games

[Man Friday]

In my opinion the likes of Bayern Munich and Barcelona are streets ahead of the best British teams and part of that I believe is due to not playing in such a hard-fought league i.e. playing in an easier one. I also believe that's one of the main reasons (i.e. fatigue) that England struggle in tournaments. By all means provide stats that show that the CL has been won by a British team three times in the last eleven years, it won't change my opinion on that. It seems common-sense and obvious to me. I didn't realise I was saying something so seemingly contentious.

[RoyallyFcuked]

Also, I've never seen so few RFC fans at a game. 187? That isnt great even by our standards is it? I know it was a freezing cold Tuesday night in Huddersfield but I was expecting more. Maybe I have unrealistic expectations of our fans.

Might be a record low of recent times? I'd expect we'd take more than that to League Cup 1st Round games I'd like to know when the last time we took less than 187 to game was, if anyone has anyone stats on it?

[Dulwich Royal]

In my opinion the likes of Bayern Munich and Barcelona are streets ahead of the best British teams and part of that I believe is due to not playing in such a hard-fought league i.e. playing in an easier one. I also believe that's one of the main reasons (i.e. fatigue) that England struggle in tournaments. By all means provide stats that show that the CL has been won by a British team three times in the last eleven years, it won't change my opinion on that. It seems common-sense and obvious to me. I didn't realise I was saying something so seemingly contentious.

Many of the regular players in the Premier League are foreign and they don't seem to suffer from fatigue when they play for their countries in the World Cup and Euros finals - the current English players are just not good enough whether they one League game a season or all of them

[SCIAG]

Many of the regular players in the Premier League are foreign and they don't seem to suffer from fatigue when they play for their countries in the World Cup and Euros finals

There are a few well documented cases - Oscar, Mata, and Lukaku come to mind. I do agree with your general point though, fatigue isn't a problem solely for England.

Without a doubt the game confirmed Chalobah and Williams is our strongest CM pairing and the only pairing we have that is worth having. Norwood and Akpan are pretty pointless and Guthrie is as good as finished. We are in serious need of a playmaker and none of those players are the answer.

What?

First up, we don't need a central playmaker. We've been promoted twice without one, we've got in the Championship playoffs multiple times without one. I agree that it could potential improve our play, but it is by no means necessary. We need to be more creative, we don't need a playmaker.

Having said that, we have four potential playmakers at the club (who have played for the first team). The Aarons are probably not ready yet. Writing off Norwood and Guthrie is ridiculous, to be frank. Both have proven themselves for us. Norwood is in poor form and it is obvious Clarke doesn't like using creative central midfielders, but they're both "good enough" if that is what we want. Grouping Norwood in with Akpan...

[RoyallyFcuked]

Without a doubt the game confirmed Chalobah and Williams is our strongest CM pairing and the only pairing we have that is worth having. Norwood and Akpan are pretty pointless and Guthrie is as good as finished. We are in serious need of a playmaker and none of those players are the answer.

What?

First up, we don't need a central playmaker. We've been promoted twice without one, we've got in the Championship playoffs multiple times without one. I agree that it could potential improve our play, but it is by no means necessary. We need to be more creative, we don't need a playmaker.

Having said that, we have four potential playmakers at the club (who have played for the first team). The Aarons are probably not ready yet. Writing off Norwood and Guthrie is ridiculous, to be frank. Both have proven themselves for us. Norwood is in poor form and it is obvious Clarke doesn't like using creative central midfielders, but they're both "good enough" if that is what we want. Grouping Norwood in with Akpan...

Just because we've got promoted twice without one, that doesn't mean we don't need one now. Things change in football and a lot of things are different to how they were 5 or 10 years ago, even 2 or 3 years ago. A change in style and approach is needed and that type of player could be key.

The first time we were promoted, our whole midfield was creative and Sidwell was the key man. The second time it was more down to wingers but right now we are not creative in any area of midfield. Clarke doesn't like using creative central midfielders? Not sure we have any

I assume you think that at least one of those players could be a Sidwell for us? Sadly I don't think so, say what you want about Guthrie but he's really not that good and won't be here next season anyway. Yes Norwood is better than Akpan and I'm not writing them off but right now I don't think they're "good enough" for what we want to achieve and I will continue to think that until they prove me otherwise.

You can't even be sure about Williams and Chalobah. But you would hope with a new signing or two and the shake up in the summer that at least two of them would prove themselves.