Pearce to Derby - CONFIMRED

[Ian Royal]

It's not being dropped when you were suspended and don't immediately replace your replacement until another game later because they'd done well in the first match.

It was one match you mental, and your 'ample replacement' was in a side that conceded six goals.

[SCIAG]

Pearce had nothing near "tremendous value" last year - the bloke was dropped around Christmas lest we forget, for Jake Cooper who has proven to be an ample replacement, and one that, judging by opinion on here, supporters are happy with.

Pearce seems to be a bit Marmite in terms of fan opinion and we can't have players like that on the highest wages, we simply can't.

Pearce wasn't dropped, he was suspended and then Cooper scored two goals. As a direct result of that, Cooper played against Birmingham, we lost 6-1, and Adkins was sacked.
With that second paragraph, you're saying you don't like him, and as a result he shouldn't be kept even though other people do like him?

If that's not being dropped then I don't know what it is. His regular first team position was replaced by another player, regardless of the incoming player's previous form, that player has been dropped.

I was saying the highest earners should be the first name on the team sheet. Pearce isn't/wasn't and nor will he be at Derby County.

Is your head in the sand?

It isn't being dropped for Pearce's poor form though, it's more like Cooper not being dropped because he scored two goals. I'm sure Adkins would change his mind about that decision if you asked him now.

Aside from a brief spell when he was dropped for contractual reasons, Pearce has been a guaranteed starter for us for the past four years under three different managers. If wages were awarded solely on merit, he'd probably be one of our highest earners alongside McCleary and Williams. I don't know whether he's provided us with good value for money because I have no idea how much he's on and how that compares to players of similar ability, but he deserves to be a top earner at a top Championship club.

[John Smith]

Your head is in the sand. You are an ostrich

[Nameless]

Cooper will be an upgrade on Pearce, with several other very good young centre backs who are all better footballers than Pearce.
Trouble is none (including Cooper) are quite ready yet
I've been a Pearce fan since he was a youth player and he will be missed, but the players we have coming through are just better footballers. Whether they have the courage, attitude and leadership time will tell but if Cooper makes the progress next season that Hector did last we won't be talking about Pearce this time next season.

That little word 'if'

[Ian Royal]

Cooper will be an upgrade on Pearce, with several other very good young centre backs who are all better footballers than Pearce.
Trouble is none (including Cooper) are quite ready yet
I've been a Pearce fan since he was a youth player and he will be missed, but the players we have coming through are just better footballers. Whether they have the courage, attitude and leadership time will tell but if Cooper makes the progress next season that Hector did last we won't be talking about Pearce this time next season.

That little word 'if'

I'm very confident at least one of Hyam or Dickie will be a better player inside 2-4 years, less so Cooper. As you say, the point is they aren't yet. We've further weakened a side that already needed strengthening. That ain't good no matter which way you look at it.

[Royal Rother]

I'd love to see Pearce stay but no player is bigger than the club. The name of the game unfortuantaly is cutting costs. Offering Pearce or Feds or Jem over and above what we can realistically afford and having them accept sets a precedent for every player who's contract we try to renew in the next two years.

Absolutely spot on.

It is NOT just about Pearce in reality and it's not just about the strength of the team now.

A line needed to be drawn and then underlined and not crossed for the future good of the club.

No more stupid contracts beyond what we can afford. The hangover of the AZ era must not carry over to another single contract extension or renewal.

If other clubs want to pay over the odds for average to decent players let them.

And Ian, I'm not really sure the squad did need strengthening as such - the quality of the players was there for all to see against Arsenal after all. But something drastic did need to be done and maybe an out with the old approach is what Clarke decided was needed, both in playing and back room staff.

I'm no fan of Clarke at all (yet) but I can see justification in the limp efforts to keep Pearce at the club... all part of creating a fresh approach. (Such a shame some other contracts hadn't already ended as well.)

[AthleticoSpizz]

Agree, and sounds pretty obvious to anyone

[Royal Rother]

Really? Reading other posts you coulda fooled me!

[AthleticoSpizz]

Ok, I withdraw the "anyone"

[Ian Royal]

It's pretty easy to play up above your level in an FA Cup Final at Wembley against the Cup holders. It's doing it in the league that's important.

We've gone from having a very good Championship 'keeper to no established keeper, losing our PotS.
We've got an athletic right back who's not good at defending and a young left back who isn't really a defender. We've lost an experienced and talented centreback (who happened to be a captain) and are left with a very talented raw one and a promising but totally inexperienced one with some weaknesses. And I'd argue that centreback is where you absolutely need experience the most.
We've got a midfield that has been misfiring for several seasons and can't find a stable and workable combination, potentially losing the club captain.
We've got two mediocre forwards who are neither strikers or wingers for left wing and a good player who's not really yet recovered from persistent injuries at right wing.
We've got no strikers with any significant goalscoring pedigree. In fact we've barely got any experienced strikers.
We've lost loanees who made major contributions to a team that weren't far from relegation.

There's barely a single player left who's contracted that you know you can rely on to put in a season's worth of good performances.

That, is a very bad position to be in, and squad that needs a lot of strengthening.

Do I believe they're all worthless and we need to buy a new team? No of course not. Many can contribute a lot and will improve or return to form. But to say without losing Pearce, Federici, Karacan and Kelly we're a side that didn't need some fairly major surgery and rebuilding (plenty of that to come from the youth, but absolutely experience needed too), is frankly delusional.

[Lacoste]

It's pretty easy to play up above your level in an FA Cup Final at Wembley against the Cup holders. It's doing it in the league that's important.

We've gone from having a very good Championship 'keeper to no established keeper, losing our PotS.
We've got an athletic right back who's not good at defending and a young left back who isn't really a defender. We've lost an experienced and talented centreback (who happened to be a captain) and are left with a very talented raw one and a promising but totally inexperienced one with some weaknesses. And I'd argue that centreback is where you absolutely need experience the most.
We've got a midfield that has been misfiring for several seasons and can't find a stable and workable combination, potentially losing the club captain.
We've got two mediocre forwards who are neither strikers or wingers for left wing and a good player who's not really yet recovered from persistent injuries at right wing.
We've got no strikers with any significant goalscoring pedigree. In fact we've barely got any experienced strikers.
We've lost loanees who made major contributions to a team that weren't far from relegation.

There's barely a single player left who's contracted that you know you can rely on to put in a season's worth of good performances.

That, is a very bad position to be in, and squad that needs a lot of strengthening.

Do I believe they're all worthless and we need to buy a new team? No of course not. Many can contribute a lot and will improve or return to form. But to say without losing Pearce, Federici, Karacan and Kelly we're a side that didn't need some fairly major surgery and rebuilding (plenty of that to come from the youth, but absolutely experience needed too), is frankly delusional.

Add to that a manager who has proved nothing in the game, sacked at WBA and has remarkably taken us backwards in the second half of the season. If we had a decent boss who had actual pedigree I wouldn't be so concerned as this.

The futures bright, the futures blue and white in league 1

[Royal Rother]

Well Ian I don't agree with your opening statement that it's easy to play above yourself....

I think there is something wrong with the squad / management if you can only do it on certain occasions - occasions that never seem to include an unglamorous game when you really need to get down and dirty.

I'm being a bit of a Devil's Advocate here but am not defending Clarke because to be honest, as I've said before, I think he's been pretty shit.

[Hoop Blah]

Like Feds and Jem, Pearce had tremendous value to us as a player and will be very difficult to afford to replace with a similar standard player within the club's budget. Also like Feds and Jem, Pearce would have had financial value to us, had we got him under contract. Seems to me that we have thrown both types of asset away. .

You can't make players sign contracts though, and I've no doubt that Federici's ego, let alone his agent/bank balance, meant he was never going to accept another contract here unless we were promoted.

Same probably goes for Pearce, although less so on the ego side of things i imagine.

Both players knew they would have better offers if they were available on a free and having secured their previous contracts were always likely to be running those down to sell themselves on the free market.

The alternative was for the club to sell them before their contract expired. I imagine we were paying top dollar for them and we know from both players attempts to engineer moves away there just wasn't the interest in them.

Karacan is a slightly becaus of his injury problems. 12 months ago we were told he was about to join first team training and might be involved on pre-season. He made a couple of attempts at coming back in friendlies during the season but wasn't close to fitness months later. The club couldn't afford to offer him a new deal before this one ran out.

[Royal Lady]

Why do you lot bother debating with Royal Rother? He hasn't been to a game in years and shows no interest until there's something happening that he can try and argue about.

[Royal Rother]

And again....!!!

[Ian Royal]

Because he's often quite intelligent and insightful RL. You can have a decent conversation with him even if you completely disagree... providing you are actually interested in doing so.

[Royal Rother]

RL, I try to engage in debate. You don't.

On football related threads all you do is post a series of questions* that are supposed to be rhetorical in nature but in reality are merely a demonstration of your entrenched views; views which are never going to shift one iota no matter what replies you get to those questions.

Which is pretty much why people don't bother engaging with you often these days.

* Take a look back if you don't believe me.

PS Cheers Ian.

[Lacoste]

RL, I try to engage in debate. You don't.

On football related threads all you do is post a series of questions* that are supposed to be rhetorical in nature but in reality are merely a demonstration of your entrenched views; views which are never going to shift one iota no matter what replies you get to those questions.

Which is pretty much why people don't bother engaging with you often these days.

* Take a look back if you don't believe me.

PS Cheers Ian.

I'd engage RL.

Only if she let me so anal first though.

Where shall we get married?

[Royal Lady]

My views aren't entrenched! I have always loved the club - didn't like Rodgers, loved Copps and McD, didn't like Adkins - don't care for Clarke (this is in managerial capacity btw) - hated Frank Waller, loved Smee, love SJM - knew Anton was not going to be the saviour some thought and feel same about Thai's. Have never slagged off any particular players. In what ways are my views entrenched? You're just another one of these people with some chip on your shoulder who likes to think you know everything and enjoy belittling those who don't agree with you Mr Rother. How many Reading games have you attended in the last 3 years as a matter of interest? Because it's easy to say the team aren't that bad or whatever from watching maybe 2 or 3 games on TV rather than watching them live.

[Ian Royal]

Think you might need to look up the definition of 'entrenched'. You seem to think it means 'wrong'. It doesn't.

In fact, it could be argued that by rejecting his accusation out of hand without apparently giving it enough thought to fully understand it is a demonstration of an entrenched view.