Are to unhappy Steve Clark is staying?

[winchester_royal]

My two cents worth..

On Wednesday evening, when it looked like he was offski, I was pretty angry with the bloke, the reasons for which have been pretty well covered on this thread. He's started a project here, completely overhauled the both the playing squad and staff at the club, and was then going to jump ship 4 months into that to go and work for a club very similar to us in just about every way.

But he didn't leave, he stayed. He chose to continue at the football club, and continue with the project that he's started. You could argue that this is the key point to take out of this, but the question remains - what are his actual motivations for staying? Is it because he believes he'll get a better offer in the next few months? Is it because Fulham wouldn't let him bring all his staff over here with him? Is it because they wouldn't give him control over transfers? Or is it just because he felt a sense of loyalty to the project he has started here? The issue is that unless it is the last reason, they it's likely that this will crop again in the near future, especially if we're performing well, with what will likely be a different outcome, and it'll leave the club in a mess.

I understand the point of those saying we'd all do the same in his situation, and that is probably true, but football is a very different industry. When one of you lot gets a job offer from B&Q, you'll be able to hide it from your colleagues at Homebase, and if you decide not to take it then there won't be any impact going forward. That's not the case here, the players/staff/fans will be very aware of the fact that the manager was flirting with another club, and how can he expect to be able to demand loyalty and commitment from them when he hasn't shown it himself? How can he build for a future which it doesn't look like he's going to bother sticking around for?

If this had been a job offer at a prem club, which would have represented significant progression, then I think everyone would have understood him going to talk to them. But Clarke has dropped his knickers at the first 6/10 that has come over offering to buy him a drink, and as a result he's going to find it very hard to turn it back around here.

For me he should get the chance to do that, but I do think all parties might have been better off if there'd just been a clean break.

[andrew1957]

I was very impressed by the honesty at the press conference this morning - particularly from Nigel Howe. I thought he came across well.

He said that the club had given permission for Clarke to talk to Fulham because they had learnt over the years that standing in a manager's way never ended well. He clearly indicated that the board and those in power were disappointed that Clarke had wanted to speak to Fulham. He said that the board had backed Clarke to the hilt in bringing in his own players and coaching team and that he would expect the project to be followed through. And he was clear that results now had to follow. Reading between the lines he seemed to be saying that failure was no longer an option.

Frankly Clarke is now under huge pressure. He has to win games or he will be sacked. I would say we have to be comfortably top 6 by NY or he will be out.

As for Clarke at least he was very honest but he has made his job 100% harder and failure will not be tolerated. I think if it had not been for this and we had missed out on promotion this season that the board and fans would have given him the benefit of the doubt and he would have been here next season to finish the project. Now I think promotion is essential if he is to be here next season.

My gut feeling is we will have a new manager before the end of the season. There is now simply too much pressure on Clarke and unless we have a long run of wins he will either walk or be sacked.

[Lacoste]

Sandman, I can see you're trying to make this as matter of fact as possible, fair enough and yes, legally he can speak to other "employers". Truth is, football management isn't just any other job at all, surely even you can see that.

Ok, have it your way, say it was just any old job, people who walk out on fixed term contracts will have a very short contracting career indeed. Loyalty goes a long way and once you have a bad name, it sticks.

Either way, Clarke has fcuked himself here. To say "hopefully i'll be here for the rest of my contract" is an absolute joke and insulting to Reading fans after what he has done recently. He simply doesn't mean it.

How people disliked Adkins but like this guy is beyond me.

[The Cap]

Nameless wrote:
If he had gone I don't think it would have been hard to replace him with a better manager. If he does stay he's now made his job a lot harder, in the short term at least, when questions were already being asked about his capability. It seems a poor piece of judgement on his part.

Well summed up mate, and pretty much my thoughts in a nutshell. All manner of reasons have been suggested, however this hits the nail on the head.

As people on here have said, Saturday's atmosphere is going to be an interesting one and anything other than a win will certainly leave more than just a few pissed off faces. And, naturally, Lennon is also looking to take advantage of the unrest. No pressure then Clarke.

[Lacoste]

In between going to see if he could get a better offer somewhere else

Which he is perfectly within his right to do.

I'm within my rights to oxf*rd my girlfriends best friend, film it and send it to her parents. Does that make it morally right?

[Coppelled_Streets]

I was very impressed by the honesty at the press conference this morning - particularly from Nigel Howe. I thought he came across well.

He said that the club had given permission for Clarke to talk to Fulham because they had learnt over the years that standing in a manager's way never ended well. He clearly indicated that the board and those in power were disappointed that Clarke had wanted to speak to Fulham. He said that the board had backed Clarke to the hilt in bringing in his own players and coaching team and that he would expect the project to be followed through. And he was clear that results now had to follow. Reading between the lines he seemed to be saying that failure was no longer an option.

Frankly Clarke is now under huge pressure. He has to win games or he will be sacked. I would say we have to be comfortably top 6 by NY or he will be out.

As for Clarke at least he was very honest but he has made his job 100% harder and failure will not be tolerated. I think if it had not been for this and we had missed out on promotion this season that the board and fans would have given him the benefit of the doubt and he would have been here next season to finish the project. Now I think promotion is essential if he is to be here next season.

My gut feeling is we will have a new manager before the end of the season. There is now simply too much pressure on Clarke and unless we have a long run of wins he will either walk or be sacked.

Good post. I'd give him until xmas before the board pull the trigger. I don't see enough consistency in this team (yet), and you have to wonder if he may have lost some of the dressing room - hopefully not, but it's clearly affected his relationship with the board and fans!

[Mr Optimist]

My two cents worth..

On Wednesday evening, when it looked like he was offski, I was pretty angry with the bloke, the reasons for which have been pretty well covered on this thread. He's started a project here, completely overhauled the both the playing squad and staff at the club, and was then going to jump ship 4 months into that to go and work for a club very similar to us in just about every way.

But he didn't leave, he stayed. He chose to continue at the football club, and continue with the project that he's started. You could argue that this is the key point to take out of this, but the question remains - what are his actual motivations for staying? Is it because he believes he'll get a better offer in the next few months? Is it because Fulham wouldn't let him bring all his staff over here with him? Is it because they wouldn't give him control over transfers? Or is it just because he felt a sense of loyalty to the project he has started here? The issue is that unless it is the last reason, they it's likely that this will crop again in the near future, especially if we're performing well, with what will likely be a different outcome, and it'll leave the club in a mess.

I understand the point of those saying we'd all do the same in his situation, and that is probably true, but football is a very different industry. When one of you lot gets a job offer from B&Q, you'll be able to hide it from your colleagues at Homebase, and if you decide not to take it then there won't be any impact going forward. That's not the case here, the players/staff/fans will be very aware of the fact that the manager was flirting with another club, and how can he expect to be able to demand loyalty and commitment from them when he hasn't shown it himself? How can he build for a future which it doesn't look like he's going to bother sticking around for?

If this had been a job offer at a prem club, which would have represented significant progression, then I think everyone would have understood him going to talk to them. But Clarke has dropped his knickers at the first 6/10 that has come over offering to buy him a drink, and as a result he's going to find it very hard to turn it back around here.

For me he should get the chance to do that, but I do think all parties might have been better off if there'd just been a clean break.

Agree with all of that Winch. The interesting part for me which I doubt we'll never get to the bottom of is where the information of Clarke talking to Fulham got out in to the media, and who leaked it. The normal employment point you mention would be true here if it hadn't got out, no one would be any the wiser but the damage is done now by the events becoming public knowledge and a damage limitation job for Clarke this morning.

I can't see how even promotion can repair the bridge now. The best analogy I can think of is it is bit like being unfaithful in a relationship, possibly fine if you can live with the guilt if it doesn't get out, but if your wife/girlfriend finds out it is a completely different situation even if she agrees to stay, the relationship will never be the same again.

[Snowball136]

I'm within my rights to oxf*rd my girlfriends best friend, film it and send it to her parents. Does that make it morally right?

Not if you don't post it here first

[Extended-Phenotype]

In the summer he cleared out the coaching staff and built his own team. Four months later, he meets with a team below us in the league, to see if they can offer him something better. If they had, he'd be gone. No qualms about ditching this project 16 games into his first full season. I just can't understand how people are ok with that. It's not like he's taken us as far as he can and is seeing what's out there. It's like applying for a new job when you're in your probation period.

Agreed.

I suppose it's whether you see it as simply a job like any other or its like a relationship.

If you are happy with your partner, you don't go on a date with someone else to see if they could be better.

If you are plodding along in a job you don't hate but it's really just a wage, you would be silly not to go on an interview with another company.

That said, if I had been hired to complete a project, spent company money setting it up and then half way through considered ditching it for another client, the first client would be well within their rights to be pissed off. So I'm not sure all the folks making direct comparisons with normal jobs is entirely sound.

And Nigel Howe was just as confused as we were.

Cool that some can let it slide. Me, I feel it's a bit shitty to go and see if something else might be better, when your work has only just begun. Shows the heart isn't really in it, and makes it very clear it won't take much for Clarke to consider dropping us like a stone.

Need some good results more than ever now. Pressure just got worse.

[Royal Lady]

In the summer he cleared out the coaching staff and built his own team. Four months later, he meets with a team below us in the league, to see if they can offer him something better. If they had, he'd be gone. No qualms about ditching this project 16 games into his first full season. I just can't understand how people are ok with that. It's not like he's taken us as far as he can and is seeing what's out there. It's like applying for a new job when you're in your probation period.

Agreed.

I suppose it's whether you see it as simply a job like any other or its like a relationship.

If you are happy with your partner, you don't go on a date with someone else to see if they could be better.

If you are plodding along in a job you don't hate but it's really just a wage, you would be silly not to go on an interview with another company.

That said, if I had been hired to complete a project, spent company money setting it up and then half way through considered ditching it for another client, the first client would be well within their rights to be pissed off. So I'm not sure all the folks making direct comparisons with normal jobs is entirely sound.

And Nigel Howe was just as confused as we were.

Cool that some can let it slide. Me, I feel it's a bit shitty to go and see if something else might be better, when your work has only just begun. Shows the heart isn't really in it, and makes it very clear it won't take much for Clarke to consider dropping us like a stone.

Need some good results more than ever now. Pressure just got worse.

I completely agree with my 2 m8s here.

[genome]

Professional and romantic relationships are two entirely different things.

[Stranded]

In the summer he cleared out the coaching staff and built his own team. Four months later, he meets with a team below us in the league, to see if they can offer him something better. If they had, he'd be gone. No qualms about ditching this project 16 games into his first full season. I just can't understand how people are ok with that. It's not like he's taken us as far as he can and is seeing what's out there. It's like applying for a new job when you're in your probation period.

Agreed.

I suppose it's whether you see it as simply a job like any other or its like a relationship.

If you are happy with your partner, you don't go on a date with someone else to see if they could be better.

If you are plodding along in a job you don't hate but it's really just a wage, you would be silly not to go on an interview with another company.

That said, if I had been hired to complete a project, spent company money setting it up and then half way through considered ditching it for another client, the first client would be well within their rights to be pissed off. So I'm not sure all the folks making direct comparisons with normal jobs is entirely sound.

And Nigel Howe was just as confused as we were.

Cool that some can let it slide. Me, I feel it's a bit shitty to go and see if something else might be better, when your work has only just begun. Shows the heart isn't really in it, and makes it very clear it won't take much for Clarke to consider dropping us like a stone.

Need some good results more than ever now. Pressure just got worse.

Whilst I can see what you are saying - the way football has gone, this is just the way of the world. Everyone looks after themselves, so whilst disappointment is understandable I'm finding it hard to be surprised or overly that bothered.

[WoodleyRoyal]

Professional and romantic relationships are two entirely different things.

indeed after five years your job still sucks

[Zammo]

It's going to be a strange atmosphere on Saturday that's for true

Any atmosphere at the Mad Stad is welcome.

[WoodleyRoyal]

In the summer he cleared out the coaching staff and built his own team. Four months later, he meets with a team below us in the league, to see if they can offer him something better. If they had, he'd be gone. No qualms about ditching this project 16 games into his first full season. I just can't understand how people are ok with that. It's not like he's taken us as far as he can and is seeing what's out there. It's like applying for a new job when you're in your probation period.

Agreed.

I suppose it's whether you see it as simply a job like any other or its like a relationship.

If you are happy with your partner, you don't go on a date with someone else to see if they could be better.

If you are plodding along in a job you don't hate but it's really just a wage, you would be silly not to go on an interview with another company.

That said, if I had been hired to complete a project, spent company money setting it up and then half way through considered ditching it for another client, the first client would be well within their rights to be pissed off. So I'm not sure all the folks making direct comparisons with normal jobs is entirely sound.

And Nigel Howe was just as confused as we were.

Cool that some can let it slide. Me, I feel it's a bit shitty to go and see if something else might be better, when your work has only just begun. Shows the heart isn't really in it, and makes it very clear it won't take much for Clarke to consider dropping us like a stone.

Need some good results more than ever now. Pressure just got worse.

Whilst I can see what you are saying - the way football has gone, this is just the way of the world. Everyone looks after themselves, so whilst disappointment is understandable I'm finding it hard to be surprised or overly that bothered.

This is an exceptional circumstance, i find it odd that people are trying to normalize it. How many managers ask to speak with a team lower in the league then them, decide its not for them and then expect their job back? Saying it's what football has become in recent years doesn't stand up, this is different very different. He is one lucky bloke i don't think too many clubs would have accepted this behavior...

[Who Moved The Goalposts?]

In the summer he cleared out the coaching staff and built his own team. Four months later, he meets with a team below us in the league, to see if they can offer him something better. If they had, he'd be gone. No qualms about ditching this project 16 games into his first full season. I just can't understand how people are ok with that. It's not like he's taken us as far as he can and is seeing what's out there. It's like applying for a new job when you're in your probation period.

Agreed.

I suppose it's whether you see it as simply a job like any other or its like a relationship.

If you are happy with your partner, you don't go on a date with someone else to see if they could be better.

If you are plodding along in a job you don't hate but it's really just a wage, you would be silly not to go on an interview with another company.

That said, if I had been hired to complete a project, spent company money setting it up and then half way through considered ditching it for another client, the first client would be well within their rights to be pissed off. So I'm not sure all the folks making direct comparisons with normal jobs is entirely sound.

And Nigel Howe was just as confused as we were.

Cool that some can let it slide. Me, I feel it's a bit shitty to go and see if something else might be better, when your work has only just begun. Shows the heart isn't really in it, and makes it very clear it won't take much for Clarke to consider dropping us like a stone.

Need some good results more than ever now. Pressure just got worse.

Howe's comments were incredibly open.

Given that Howe has been pissed off by previous managers who subsequently got the chop, this is the equivalent to Clarke getting a verbal warning. And I'm on Howe's side in all this.

[Rollerbob]

Are 7 threads, all about Clarke leaving/staying really necessary?

[WoodleyRoyal]

Are 7 threads, all about Clarke leaving/staying really necessary?

should probably start a new thread to ask that question m9, prolly needs a poll too

[Rollerbob]

Are 7 threads, all about Clarke leaving/staying really necessary?

should probably start a new thread to ask that question m9, prolly needs a poll too

Cracking idea.

[Coppelled_Streets]

Clarke: "You have to go and see what their plans are and see if it is more tempting than here. It wasn't."

He was interviewed by Fulham last year so already knew of their plans and set up.