Back from the sofa - Brentford (H)

[Lower West]

Liburd was one of the worst substitutions I have seen in recent times. Awful first touch, poor reading of the game and ambling back from offside positions was very unhelpful when we were chasing the game.

Remember Antonio. Still only 25 now a first team regular for West Ham. Give our youngsters a break............

[Ian Royal]

or Sa ain't sticking around

Or isn't fully fit
Or they're different types of player and McDermott got it wrong / wanted something different

[SCIAG]

Another frustrating same-old-story defeat, but it was a good game and in general play we weren't at all bad for much of the game, though we did get sloppy after the equaliser - I thought the current lack of confidence rather showed at that point.

We're low on confidence when it comes to the key moments though, and we need a bit of luck, and more leadership on the pitch, to turn it round.

Brentford scored with pretty much their only two serious efforts - both great goals, helped by exploiting the obvious weak spot in our defence, between makeshift left-back Quinn and out-of-sorts Hector. Getting two yellows for dissent and diving pretty much shows how scrambled his mind is right now, so it's probably good that he gets an enforced layoff.

Can we give Liburd a break ? Harsh to rush to judgement based on a couple of uncertain moments in 15 minutes of frenetic chasing-the-game football. He looked a bit raw, but also big, strong and quick, and could be a real penalty-box presence for us in time, which is something we sorely need.

I remember people thinking that Antonio was too clumsy to be any good, but that turned out to be rubbish. If you've got enough pace and strength to worry defenders, you can get plenty of goals in the Championship, whereas if you lack the physical presence you may not, no matter how skilful you might be.

Hector's first yellow was for a foul, not the dissent. He wouldn't have mouthed off over having advantage played on him.

Totally agree about Liburd. He's been excellent for the U21s - much better than Samuel who seems to be trading off his form for the U18s four years ago and his spell at Coventry last season - and will probably come good with time. He might just be a flat-track bully, but he's scoring a goal a game and he deserves chances in the first team - multiple chances - to prove either way.

[bobby1413]

I predicted at halftime that Hector would get sent off if he wasn't subbed and so it proved to be. IMO another questionable decision by McDermott as Hector was clearly walking a tightrope from early on in the 2nd half, after he escaped a second yellow for what seemed quite a bad foul under the nose of the East Stand lino.

Also, when the ref signalled advantage after the foul that subsequently got him his first yellow, Hector stood over the injured player berating him, rather than racing back into position!

I feel it's really unfair, harsh and wrong to blame McDermott for NOT subbing Hector at half time.

Plenty of players pick up yellows in the first half of loads of games. I'm sure the manager often days "just back off and play safe"

These are players warning £20k a week or whatever. They should have the professionalism to act responsibily and when they do get a yellow, they realise they need to be careful.

Hector ... And Hector alone is to blame for his two yellow cards.

[RoyalinBracknell]

I predicted at halftime that Hector would get sent off if he wasn't subbed and so it proved to be. IMO another questionable decision by McDermott as Hector was clearly walking a tightrope from early on in the 2nd half, after he escaped a second yellow for what seemed quite a bad foul under the nose of the East Stand lino.

Also, when the ref signalled advantage after the foul that subsequently got him his first yellow, Hector stood over the injured player berating him, rather than racing back into position!

I feel it's really unfair, harsh and wrong to blame McDermott for NOT subbing Hector at half time.

Plenty of players pick up yellows in the first half of loads of games. I'm sure the manager often days "just back off and play safe"

These are players warning £20k a week or whatever. They should have the professionalism to act responsibily and when they do get a yellow, they realise they need to be careful.

Hector ... And Hector alone is to blame for his two yellow cards.

Agreed. And we made two subs at half time anyway, at least one of which we know was enforced. I don't think we could easily justify a defensive change just for that reason.

We were 2-1 down by that point with only about 10 minutes left so that wasn't the reason we lost anyway.

[bobby1413]

Liburd was one of the worst substitutions I have seen in recent times. Awful first touch, poor reading of the game and ambling back from offside positions was very unhelpful when we were chasing the game.

Remember Antonio. Still only 25 now a first team regular for West Ham. Give our youngsters a break............

Agree and also agree that the squad lacks an identity and real team spirit. Other teams have beat us (both score wise, and performance) by their team bond and determination.

We apparently have one of the best academies in the country - one of 23 that is grade A isn't it?

We also have many youngsters who I appreciate are still developing but at some stage they need to be ready.

Where is:

Kuhl- back from loan?
Samuel - can he be recalled
Niall Keown - think he made his debut recently didn't he?
Stacey
Jack Kelly
Craig tanner

I'd be willing to help drive Hector to Chelsea if it would mean I never have to see him swanning round like he's the worlds best player, and if it gave "one of our own" a chance.

[bobby1413]

We lost because Our Bri was lost again all at sea he cant seem to figure it out

I love it.

SC's team fell to bits. Brian comes in and after 2 games you're expecting a miracle and for the team to beat Brentford. Also don't forget he has actually won one of those games.

There's 11 professional, highly paid players out there. For 90 minutes it's them who are actually playing - Brian can't be expected to influence things so quickly.

At what point do you STOP blaming the manager (who has been here now for less than 5 hours of football), and start blaming the 11 players on the field who have been here for 20 odd games and have not achieved much in that time.

You can have an opinion on subs, on formations - fine. But remember he had 2 games before today - part way through the season - so can't be expected to walk in and know team.

Id also bet my testicles on the fact that Brian McD sees several players in the squad he wouldn't have asked for. So it will take time to actually make a difference and impact.

In short - you're talking utter nonsense. Maybe we should sack McDermott?

[P!ssed Off]

Another frustrating same-old-story defeat, but it was a good game and in general play we weren't at all bad for much of the game, though we did get sloppy after the equaliser - I thought the current lack of confidence rather showed at that point.

We're low on confidence when it comes to the key moments though, and we need a bit of luck, and more leadership on the pitch, to turn it round.

Brentford scored with pretty much their only two serious efforts - both great goals, helped by exploiting the obvious weak spot in our defence, between makeshift left-back Quinn and out-of-sorts Hector. Getting two yellows for dissent and diving pretty much shows how scrambled his mind is right now, so it's probably good that he gets an enforced layoff.

Can we give Liburd a break ? Harsh to rush to judgement based on a couple of uncertain moments in 15 minutes of frenetic chasing-the-game football. He looked a bit raw, but also big, strong and quick, and could be a real penalty-box presence for us in time, which is something we sorely need.

I remember people thinking that Antonio was too clumsy to be any good, but that turned out to be rubbish. If you've got enough pace and strength to worry defenders, you can get plenty of goals in the Championship, whereas if you lack the physical presence you may not, no matter how skilful you might be.

Hector's first yellow was for a foul, not the dissent. He wouldn't have mouthed off over having advantage played on him.

Totally agree about Liburd. He's been excellent for the U21s - much better than Samuel who seems to be trading off his form for the U18s four years ago and his spell at Coventry last season - and will probably come good with time. He might just be a flat-track bully, but he's scoring a goal a game and he deserves chances in the first team - multiple chances - to prove either way.

Dominic Samuel
First half of 2014/15 season: 7 goals in 10 U21 games (Not quite as good as a goal a game, but tbf he was only 20, not 23 years old)
2015: 10 goals in 21 games in League 1.

Liburd will not get any more chances for now. Samuel's loan expires in the next few days and he's miles ahead of Liburd in the pecking order. Liburd's good form in the U21s will hopefully earn him a loan move to League 1 or 2.

[urz13]

Decent game, didn't deserve to lose but they came for a win and got it so fair play to them.

It's worrying when Quinn, a CM/LM by trade, looks twice the fullback Gunter will ever be. Fully agree with comments earlier in the thread about how he always turns and plays a backwards or sideways pass, never attacks the opposition - it's like he's playing football with a rugby mindset.

HRK played well, and I'm happy with him starting - but I'm not sure he's going to score many goals and so Sa maybe a better bet as his general hold up play is stronger and he has goals in him too. Vydra should start alongside one or the other, playing beyond them where he is best as opposed to a number 10 style role (which Piazon played well in today). 2 goals and 5 assists in 11 or so games is a decent return for a player Dellor ranted about for 5 minutes last week.

At times our play is overly intricate, and we seem trigger happy outside the box but far less so inside - John, Williams, HRK and Piazon all had chances to score but either took too long and were crowded out/blocked, or failed to get a decent shot off. Frustrating.

Bond - 6
Gunter - 5
McShane - 9 prevented two certain goals and wasn't at fault for either of theirs
Hector - 7 actually played very well until his sending off - having seen the replay a yellow for diving looked very very harsh as there was contact (not saying it deserved a penalty, however).
Quinn - 6
John - 7 beat his man a lot, needed to shoot on occasion
Blackman - 6
Williams - 7
Norwood - 7
Piazon - 7
HRK - 7

Vydra - 6 lovely assist but should have buried the header
McCleary - 7
Liburd - 5 disappointing in all honesty, but it's hard to point the finger at him considering his age and lack of experience.

Referee was awful - missed what looked like a clear penalty for a foul on Williams (?) and generally got several calls wrong, not helped by the two terrible linesmen. Sending off was a bad call IMO.

Brian's team selection almost worked, we just needed a bit of luck. Poor decision to bring on Liburd over Sa, however.

[marlowuk]

That was an entertaining game between two good passing sides and included three superb goals. Unfortunately two of those goals were scored by the opposition!!

It was also a frustrating game to watch as a Reading fan - and how often have we said that in the past months? Even the Brentford manager admitted that his side were 'second best' for most of the game but it's goals that earn points. But you can't get goals unless you shoot! But Brentford were one of the better sides I have seen at the Madejski this year and they didn't 'park the bus' once (twice) they were in the lead.

We need Tish back; we need Ferdinand back; we need Taylor/Obita back. Piazon is too lightweight and too easily dispossessed - he is a liability! At the moment Williams and McShane are the life-blood of the team and they give everything for 90 minutes. I thought John was a constant threat in the first half and that HRK worked his socks off. If it was Brian's instructions that he should give his all for 45 minutes before being substituted then he fulfilled that role.

I don't understand the 'Gunter-hate'. He is probably one of the first names on the Wales' team sheet and, although he is not the bravest of defenders, he is pretty solid and a threat in attack. Blackman has lost that confidence of early season. Then he would take on players and beat them with some intricate skill; now he is looking to pass on the ball (and responsibility) to others.

Quinn played well but struggled against Canos. McCleary played well and scored for us but I didn't see much of the usually dominant Norwood today? I thought Hector played pretty well and I'm not convinced that it was a dive (as opposed to 'going down easily') that had him sent off. Bond had little to trouble him (and had no chance with the two goals) and his distribution was better today. Vydra flatters to deceive. There may be a great player in there somewhere and maybe it just needs a bit of confidence to bring that out? Librd made no impact in my view.

It's too soon to be judging Brian after only three games. He is still getting to know the players and what they can do. He will also have the transfer window in which to bring in (and off-load) players. Maybe Fosu and Samuel will be worth trying? But if we don't get three points against Bristol City the pressure will begin to build!!

[Sutekh]

Just to say that IMO Reading have been the better side by far at Hull, at Wolves and yesterday yet have had nob all luck in front of goal (although that area has been a big problem for the last two years and still doesn't look like we're anywhere near a satisfactory solution).

[bobby1413]

yet have had nob all luck in front of goal

It's not luck

4 shots on target against Brentford - Scored 1
3 shots on target against Wolves - Scored 0
3 shots on target against Hull - Scored 1

It's not even the lack of quality in finishing... it's simply the lack of ATTEMPTS at finishing that's part of the issue. Reading seem determined to try to place like Barcelona, by pinging the ball around the pitch endlessly until there is a clear shot on goal.

As we all know, Reading unfortunately are not Barcelona... and so if the players at times just went for the shot, they would at least give the keeper a test.

[Mr.Swainey]

Three minor observations:

1. Ola John culpable for the Woods goal. He rarely tracks back and he let the advancing player just drift in behind him unchecked. If you saw the reaction of McDermott to this you might realise why he was taken off.
2. LOL @ bringing on Liburd instead of Sa.
3. I actually thought Hector played well up until his dismissal. The constant criticism that goes his way is often exaggerated - though the dive was embarrassing tbf.

[Sutekh]

1. John is a your typical winger and therefore prone to going missing on occasion when defending that is the way with wingers particularly the more flamboyant, I would expect some improvement there however once Brian has had time to get things together on the training pitch. Also John was taken off due to a pulled hamstring and not anything else.

2. Yes a bit of a mystery that one.

3. For me Hector is a defensive midfielder and merely competent as a central defender. Agreed the criticism of him is a little over the top esp. given his age but then as he's now a Chelsea player I don't think people are willing to cut him any slack and would rather see Cooper learning the game than yet another risky moment from Hector. Personally I hope he does really well when he leaves Reading and makes something of himself, shame he's not going to be able to do that here due to the car crash of a defensive squad Clarke built.

[Jack Celliers]

Three minor observations:

1. Ola John culpable for the Woods goal. He rarely tracks back and he let the advancing player just drift in behind him unchecked. If you saw the reaction of McDermott to this you might realise why he was taken off.
2. LOL @ bringing on Liburd instead of Sa.
3. I actually thought Hector played well up until his dismissal. The constant criticism that goes his way is often exaggerated - though the dive was embarrassing tbf.

John was injured? Hector was ok when he wanted to be, but there are too many times when he just cannot be arsed - like the first goal for example. You can't have people like him in the squad and if we could send him back to Chelsea it would be great.

[Jano]

Considering the past reports on Sa and his attitude issues, Brians recent comments about ego's and team ethics, then seeing Sa's apparent lack of enthusiasm when warming up during half time, I'd be quite surprised if Sa was still at the club after January. Shame as although I had my reservations when we signed him he had looked a decent player, seems pretty obvious Brian doesn't rate him though.

[Ian Royal]

Liburd was one of the worst substitutions I have seen in recent times. Awful first touch, poor reading of the game and ambling back from offside positions was very unhelpful when we were chasing the game.

Remember Antonio. Still only 25 now a first team regular for West Ham. Give our youngsters a break............

Agree and also agree that the squad lacks an identity and real team spirit. Other teams have beat us (both score wise, and performance) by their team bond and determination.

We apparently have one of the best academies in the country - one of 23 that is grade A isn't it?

We also have many youngsters who I appreciate are still developing but at some stage they need to be ready.

Where is:

Kuhl- back from loan?
Samuel - can he be recalled
Niall Keown - think he made his debut recently didn't he?
Stacey
Jack Kelly
Craig tanner

I'd be willing to help drive Hector to Chelsea if it would mean I never have to see him swanning round like he's the worlds best player, and if it gave "one of our own" a chance.

Keown made his debut last season.
Kuhl plays the same position as Norwood. It's Liam Kelly, who's another creative attacker like the many ee already have, as is Craig Tanner.

Samuel is made of glass. Keown could spot Gunter at right back so he can play left back... but we've no idea if McDermott would even consider 4-3-3 or play Quinn over Williams in a 2.

I love the youth, but they're not the answer to our immediate problems. Giving McDermott time and patience is.

[Chelsea/Royal]

I don't understand the 'Gunter-hate'. He is probably one of the first names on the Wales' team sheet and, although he is not the bravest of defenders, he is pretty solid and a threat in attack. Blackman has lost that confidence of early season. Then he would take on players and beat them with some intricate skill; now he is looking to pass on the ball (and responsibility) to others.


It's not hate for Gunter it's just that he isn't very good. He slows everything down, he rarely gets past his man and crosses it, he pulls out of tackles ( the one exception was the head injury against Wolves.)

I stand by my comment that 9 times out of 10 he gets the ball from Danny Williams, trots a couple of paces, turns back inside and gives it back to him. He does it time and time again. He is bang average.

If we had another right full back he wouldn't get in the side. Wales obviously don't have cover there either or he wouldn't get in their side.

I really enjoyed the game yesterday. 3 really good goals, but Reading should have been getting 7 points out of the Xmas period and back in the mix for the play offs. It will end up being 3. Not good enough for what is a really strong squad.

Blackman is now isolated out on the right, Piazon is gifted but very lightweight. John was exiting to watch but a liability.

We need Tish back with Quinn in midfield to,provide some steel.

I hope we spank City.

[Hoop Blah]

Despite the result I thought that was a pretty decent game of football, and we got to see 3 very good goals. We didn't play too badly but there is plenty of work to do to forge this squad into a team, let alone one with an identity, and that's going to have to start with the manager getting more things right than wrong.

Our players are generally good enough and it'll make McDermott's job a lot easier when he has Taylor, Obita, Ferdinand, Tshibola and Quinn all fit and available again and there's no doubt in my mind that he has to find a way of getting the most out of our better players and getting the likes of Vydra, Sa and Piazon on the end of an effective attacking gameplan.

As for our performance yesterday, at times we looked pretty good with Piazon linking things up well and Brentford offering very little in the way of threat to Bond's goal for most of the game. The big concern is that we look so short of confidence in front of goal and that's where McDermott needs to concentrate to start with. We create some good opportunities and chances but rarely convert those into attempts on target (or off target for that matter) and it's where the stats from the last few games don't reflect our half decent approach play.

A few of my thoughts on players/selections:
Left Back: McDermotts hands were tied yesterday but Taylor should be coming straight back in but Quinn has shown we've missed his intelligence and bite so hopefully he'll keep his place in the side by moving in the midfield
Hector: He's looked so poor this season and I'm not even sure it's the move to Chelsea that's triggered it. He's always had a mistake in him and his style is to gamble on nicking the ball instead of playing the percentages and he's getting found out for it more this season. I've never been convinced by him but he's not the consistent type of centre half that McShane needs alongside him and yesterdays red card just sums him up (and a lot of modern footballers to be fair)
Blackman: He's not a right midfielder. One of the things Clarke did well (and I think it was an accident of circumstance) was get him playing wide right with the freedom to attack and cut in from the space that afforded him. He also isn't really a centre forward. If we're playing a more traditional 4-4-2 then I don't see how Blackman, and his 1 goal in 12 games record, can justify a place in the side. I'd probably drop him for the good of the team and maybe cash in on him in January whilst clubs might still believe his earlier run of form wasn't just a freak
Vydra: There's a really good player in there somewhere but he's so out of form or low on confidence. I don't get McDermott's thinking of playing an unfit Robson-Kanu ahead of him to take the pressure off him, I'd have thought showing a bit of belief in him to start him and Piazon together might have helped his confidence more
Piazon: A bit of a luxury, a bit lightweight, but yesterday he played pretty well and if McDermott can build a team that gets him space on the ball with like minded players around him he could be the creative spark we need

McDermott: Some really odd decisions yesterday. He's had no time to work with the players and get his ideas over to them to it's far too early to judge his impact on the way we play, the biggest thing he can do in the short term is get players playing in their more effective positions and getting the balance of the team right before drilling them into the side and identity he wants. I don't think he helped himself with his selections yesterday.

[LWJ]

[b]
( the one exception was the head injury against Wolves.)

andddd this is where you lose any credibility.