CONFIMRED - Blackman to Derby

[Extended-Phenotype]

Large loan fee = silly money

Now, if the Thais want to chuck their prawn money about then fine. But the money did not come about through owner investment, it came about through selling club assets.

Wasn't over the moon about it at the time. If Vyrda was banging them in like Blackman I'd have changed my mind. Can see the workings, was the right player, was available, had fantastic pedigree - loan in, view to buy, hasn't quite come off.

I'm just disagreeing that the move was madness. Easy to bitch in hindsight but I think we are all surprised it hasn't quite come off.

What would you have paid to buy him, ignoring the hindsight of his performances with us so far?

But we're only in a position to buy him if we get promoted. And if he's good enough for the PL why is he here, and not at Watford?

We couldn't afford to buy him, and we couldn't afford to loan him.
Should have looked elsewhere.

I thought we were trying for promotion?

I guess Watford have other options. I think Samuel is probably good enough for us and he's playing lower down so not sure if that's a sound way of looking at it.

Didn't really answer the question though m8; what would you have paid to buy Vyrda?

[SpaceCruiser]

Regarding the Vydra loan fee, isn't the word on the street that the well publicised loan fee of £2.5m is actually the cost of the loan to the club and not just an upfront charge. In other words our contribution to his wages is included in that £2.5m.

If that's true, and I've no idea if it is apart from the fact that it gets referred to in some, more informed, quarters, then it isn't anywhere near our transfer record just to have him here for a season.

No.
Loan Fee + wages

And do you know that for a fact?

[tmesis]

Regarding the Vydra loan fee, isn't the word on the street that the well publicised loan fee of £2.5m is actually the cost of the loan to the club and not just an upfront charge. In other words our contribution to his wages is included in that £2.5m.

If that's true, and I've no idea if it is apart from the fact that it gets referred to in some, more informed, quarters, then it isn't anywhere near our transfer record just to have him here for a season.

No.
Loan Fee + wages

And do you know that for a fact?

It would have seemed a poor bit of business to have paid a £2.5 million transfer fee for him, so yes, it would be insanity to pay that amount just to borrow the guy for a season, plus paying his substantial wages on top.

That doesn't mean it didn't happen, but it does seem to make it unlikely.

[Extended-Phenotype]

Regarding the Vydra loan fee, isn't the word on the street that the well publicised loan fee of £2.5m is actually the cost of the loan to the club and not just an upfront charge. In other words our contribution to his wages is included in that £2.5m.

If that's true, and I've no idea if it is apart from the fact that it gets referred to in some, more informed, quarters, then it isn't anywhere near our transfer record just to have him here for a season.

No.
Loan Fee + wages

And do you know that for a fact?

Can't seem to find a definitive answer to this, conflicting reports all over tinterweb

Might be one to ask Charlie boy to clarify

[paultheroyal]

The one where he wasnt very good and demanded to be in 1St team

and slowly became better after he left so that many years later hes decent enough to have been a 1St team regular.like Cox.

By that rationale we just keep every player ever,

Calling Bollox to all that and to be fair done the Antonio debate to death and no one has changed my mind.

A number of us saw quality in him. Never giving the chance to shine other than the odd cameos whilst other bang average players got their chance.

Sell him for peanuts whilst in meantime he racks up £10 million + in transfer fees.

You're yet to satisfactorily answer how he'd have progressed or why he'd stay getting virtually no game time in the PL being as he was behind Kebe, McAnuff, McCleary and HRK... three of whom produced reasonably well in the PL for all their faults. Our problems weren't as serious out wide to the extent they were in midfield, defence and upfront.

Sending him out on loan again wasn't an option. He wanted first team football or a new club. It's a damn shame, but that's life. Had we not gone up we probably wouldn't have signed McCleary and he'd probably have git games and slowly improved with us.

As regrettable as it is, the club did nothing wrong and all he's achieved since doesn't change that. To list him leaving as one of the worst transfer decisions to be made here is to lose all perspective on rwality because someone you rated wasn't given the defference you wanted.

Get over it, we all experience it at some time or other. Most of us don't whine about it at every opportunity or make crazy claims about it being the worst thing to happen ever part 2.

In my opinion he was better than some starting in front of him and never got the chance. My opinion. Don't tell me to get over it you buffoon. If someone posts something I disagree with I will give an opinion if that's ok with you.

[RG7Fan]

Can't seem to find a definitive answer to this, conflicting reports all over tinterweb

Might be one to ask Charlie boy to clarify

I don't think we ever know for sure, but from my experience what we see in the press is pretty accurate (although as to whether the £2.5m is all in or not could easily be 'lost in translation' in my view).

[melonhead]

The one where he wasnt very good and demanded to be in 1St team

and slowly became better after he left so that many years later hes decent enough to have been a 1St team regular.like Cox.

By that rationale we just keep every player ever,

Calling Bollox to all that and to be fair done the Antonio debate to death and no one has changed my mind.

A number of us saw quality in him. Never giving the chance to shine other than the odd cameos whilst other bang average players got their chance.

Sell him for peanuts whilst in meantime he racks up £10 million + in transfer fees.

Honourably didnt hold back his career and allowed him to leave. Hes just become good enough recently. Its cox all over again.he never really produced anything to demand that place.looked like a head down donkey most of the time.
All he had was potential. Which he is realising now. Years and years too late for us.and good luck to him. But to use his performances today as evidence that he was good enough then is just plain mental.
Imo

Who are the bang average players he couldnt get ahead of?

[leon]

hindsight benders, is a wonderful thing

shit tits

[P!ssed Off]

The one where he wasnt very good and demanded to be in 1St team

and slowly became better after he left so that many years later hes decent enough to have been a 1St team regular.like Cox.

By that rationale we just keep every player ever,

Calling Bollox to all that and to be fair done the Antonio debate to death and no one has changed my mind.

A number of us saw quality in him. Never giving the chance to shine other than the odd cameos whilst other bang average players got their chance.

Sell him for peanuts whilst in meantime he racks up £10 million + in transfer fees.

Honourably didnt hold back his career and allowed him to leave. Hes just become good enough recently. Its cox all over again.he never really produced anything to demand that place.looked like a head down donkey most of the time.
All he had was potential. Which he is realising now. Years and years too late for us.and good luck to him. But to use his performances today as evidence that he was good enough then is just plain mental.
Imo

Disagree.
The stats (see below) show it was a poor bit of business a mere six months later. None of this 'years and years', 'come good recently' nonsense.
Though recent years have certainly transferred the sale from 'bad business' to 'terrible business', imo.

Michail Antonio 2011-12: Played 28, 9 goals, 8 assists. Playing right wing in L1.
Deemed not good enough for our PL squad and sold in August 2012 for £350K iirc.

Nick Blackman (4 months older than Antonio) 2012-13: Played 28, 11 goals, 6 assists. playing right wing in L1.
Deemed good enough for our PL squad and bought in January 2013 for £1.2m.

By the time we signed Blackman that season, Antonio had Played 29, 5 goals, 6 assists in 29, at Championship level. Aged 22.

Antonio finished the season: Played 39, 8 goals, 9 assists
For comparison, in our title winning side a year prior, McAnuff finished: Played 39, 5 goals, 11 assists.

If Blackman was deemed a suitable squad player for the PL, then how was Antonio deemed not to be?
McDermott cocked up.
A six month loan would have likely demonstrated that in Antonio we had a player not far off the ability of Jobi, if at all. And one with far more potential/years left in him.

[CountryRoyal]

I thought Antonio bummed SWFC and wanted to leave anyway?

[Harpers So Solid Crew]

We clearly could afford to loan him. Because we did.

Possibly afford in more than the financial meaning.

Fwiw I always assumed the 2.5 million included wages. If we are also paying another million in wages it makes him the highest cost per season for a player ever at the club surely?

[Nameless]

At a time when wages are way higher than they have ever been and transfer fees continue to be stupidly over the top , plus we are at the highest level we've been for all but 3 of the last 140 years it's not a shock that a current player is our most expensive surely ?
It would be bizarre if the running costs for a player from 1984 were higher than one from today.....
It may be though that adjusted for footballing hyper inflation someone like Miyahlov or Steve Moran was more 'expensive'. Both were far worse bits of transfer business than Vydra though. Alongside Fae, Halford etc etc.

[Hoop Blah]

Regarding the Vydra loan fee, isn't the word on the street that the well publicised loan fee of £2.5m is actually the cost of the loan to the club and not just an upfront charge. In other words our contribution to his wages is included in that £2.5m.

If that's true, and I've no idea if it is apart from the fact that it gets referred to in some, more informed, quarters, then it isn't anywhere near our transfer record just to have him here for a season.

No.
Loan Fee + wages

Great, thanks for clearing that up...

[melonhead]

I thought Antonio bummed SWFC and wanted to leave anyway?

wanted 1st team football and wasn't prepared to fight for it.
let go to the benefit of all concerned

[Extended-Phenotype]

Regarding the Vydra loan fee, isn't the word on the street that the well publicised loan fee of £2.5m is actually the cost of the loan to the club and not just an upfront charge. In other words our contribution to his wages is included in that £2.5m.

If that's true, and I've no idea if it is apart from the fact that it gets referred to in some, more informed, quarters, then it isn't anywhere near our transfer record just to have him here for a season.

No.
Loan Fee + wages

Great, thanks for clearing that up...

OK, tweeted Charles Watts about it. He said the 2.5m fee did not include wages.

[PistolPete]

On Blackman, and McDermott's comments that he left minutes after a chat about his best position...

They may have chatted many times, but the report implies this was a relevant chat. Why on earth wouldn't McDermott have chatted with Blackman about this within the first few days he was at the club??

I understand that the boss's decision is final, but surely you'd sit down with every first team players in the first week and discuss:

- What they're happy about and unhappy about
- Where they want to be playing on the pitch and how
- AOB

McDermott had been at the club for 3 weeks and had perhaps only just had this key discussion with his top scorer in a season when he's out of contract at the end of the end of it?

Not surprised Blackman upped and left.

[Ian Royal]

Calling Bollox to all that and to be fair done the Antonio debate to death and no one has changed my mind.

A number of us saw quality in him. Never giving the chance to shine other than the odd cameos whilst other bang average players got their chance.

Sell him for peanuts whilst in meantime he racks up £10 million + in transfer fees.

You're yet to satisfactorily answer how he'd have progressed or why he'd stay getting virtually no game time in the PL being as he was behind Kebe, McAnuff, McCleary and HRK... three of whom produced reasonably well in the PL for all their faults. Our problems weren't as serious out wide to the extent they were in midfield, defence and upfront.

Sending him out on loan again wasn't an option. He wanted first team football or a new club. It's a damn shame, but that's life. Had we not gone up we probably wouldn't have signed McCleary and he'd probably have git games and slowly improved with us.

As regrettable as it is, the club did nothing wrong and all he's achieved since doesn't change that. To list him leaving as one of the worst transfer decisions to be made here is to lose all perspective on rwality because someone you rated wasn't given the defference you wanted.

Get over it, we all experience it at some time or other. Most of us don't whine about it at every opportunity or make crazy claims about it being the worst thing to happen ever part 2.

In my opinion he was better than some starting in front of him and never got the chance. My opinion. Don't tell me to get over it you buffoon. If someone posts something I disagree with I will give an opinion if that's ok with you.

Ok, so you thought he should be playing. He wasn't. That also wasn't going to change. Well done, you were right he would turn out good. That's entirely separate as to whether, under the actual circumstances, letting him go was a good, bad or terrible decision.

Done.

[Ian Royal]

No.
Loan Fee + wages

Great, thanks for clearing that up...

OK, tweeted Charles Watts about it. He said the 2.5m fee did not include wages.

Although as per previous on here, Watts can't officially confirm anything as actually true. All he can do is pass on what he's heard, which isn't necessarily accurate.

[Ian Royal]

On Blackman, and McDermott's comments that he left minutes after a chat about his best position...

They may have chatted many times, but the report implies this was a relevant chat. Why on earth wouldn't McDermott have chatted with Blackman about this within the first few days he was at the club??

I understand that the boss's decision is final, but surely you'd sit down with every first team players in the first week and discuss:

- What they're happy about and unhappy about
- Where they want to be playing on the pitch and how
- AOB

McDermott had been at the club for 3 weeks and had perhaps only just had this key discussion with his top scorer in a season when he's out of contract at the end of the end of it?

Not surprised Blackman upped and left.

Having just had a chat about it doesn't preclude having had a chat about it when he joined as well.

The chat could well have been:

Blackman: Hi Brian, you know we discussed my best position when you came back, well I don't think me playing at right wing is really working and I'd be much happier and more effective as a striker. I am top scorer you know.
Brian: Hi Nick. Ok, well as you know, no one player is more important than the team and I felt I needed you more at right wing. I understand where you're coming from and you did look more lively when you moved upfront against Bristol. McCleary's looking alright to take over at right wing and Vydra and HRK aren't scoring at the moment, so you'll likely get your chance to show me what you can do for a full match soon enough. Maybe we'll try it out at Huddersfield.
Blackman: Nah, I'm off to Derby. Toodles.

[PistolPete]

On Blackman, and McDermott's comments that he left minutes after a chat about his best position...

They may have chatted many times, but the report implies this was a relevant chat. Why on earth wouldn't McDermott have chatted with Blackman about this within the first few days he was at the club??

I understand that the boss's decision is final, but surely you'd sit down with every first team players in the first week and discuss:

- What they're happy about and unhappy about
- Where they want to be playing on the pitch and how
- AOB

McDermott had been at the club for 3 weeks and had perhaps only just had this key discussion with his top scorer in a season when he's out of contract at the end of the end of it?

Not surprised Blackman upped and left.

Having just had a chat about it doesn't preclude having had a chat about it when he joined as well.

The chat could well have been:

Blackman: Hi Brian, you know we discussed my best position when you came back, well I don't think me playing at right wing is really working and I'd be much happier and more effective as a striker. I am top scorer you know.
Brian: Hi Nick. Ok, well as you know, no one player is more important than the team and I felt I needed you more at right wing. I understand where you're coming from and you did look more lively when you moved upfront against Bristol. McCleary's looking alright to take over at right wing and Vydra and HRK aren't scoring at the moment, so you'll likely get your chance to show me what you can do for a full match soon enough. Maybe we'll try it out at Huddersfield.
Blackman: Nah, I'm off to Derby. Toodles.

Yep, quite possibly!