How impressed are you with BMcD's return to the club?

[SCIAG]

If there's one thing I dislike more than the deluded, reactionary ramblings of much of the team board, it's people taking personal shots at the deluded, reactionary idiots rambling on the team board.

[leon]

If there's one thing I dislike more than the deluded, reactionary ramblings of much of the team board, it's people taking personal shots at the deluded, reactionary idiots rambling on the team board.

oh just piss off Victor Mature

[Maneki Neko]

Good of you

[SCIAG]

If there's one thing I dislike more than the deluded, reactionary ramblings of much of the team board, it's people taking personal shots at the deluded, reactionary idiots rambling on the team board.

oh just piss off Victor Manure

Teehee.

[Extended-Phenotype]

If McD is so shit, why are people expecting him to achieve more in 12 games than the last two 'better' managers did in close to 3 years?

[CountryRoyal]

Top Flight has proven himself time and time again to be one of the worst posters on the team board (saying something).

He's not necessarily an arsehole, or a wind up merchant, he just spouts the most deluded, naive bollocks that is often just so unrelentingly wrong.

Longhorn immediately trying to prove you wrong.

Fair.

[Armadillo Roadkill]

If McD is so shit, why are people expecting him to achieve more in 12 games than the last two 'better' managers did in close to 3 years?

Most people seem to think the last two managers were shit. They're hoping McDermott is better. Some of us have *yet* to see any real evidence.

And, as I seem to have no credibility anyways I might as well go the whole way and disagree with everyone, I think it's impossible to really know if Adkins could have turned out to be a good manager because of the circumstances. He took over a team in a tailspin then had to negotiate his way through a club in turmoil. Clarke picked up a poor team, got massive backing to assemble a good squad, then ruined it with bizarre decisions and poor judgements over talking to Fulham. McDermott has a good squad and a stable club. After 12 games there's little sign of addressing the problems left by Clarke - problems which by and large are in the domain of the manager, not the club structure. I hope he turns it around.

[Dr_Hfuhruhurr]

Got to love the Team Board.

Armadillo has some valid concerns and then the usual clowns come in, make some noise, and we're back to square one.

I personally think you should have some concerns. The Wolves game was the best commercial for football non-attendance you are going to see, and, despite the negative away team tactics and the terrible weather, McDermott was there and must be at least partially responsible.

I see the club as conservative vs non-conservative. The conservative supporters value a lack of individual mistakes. Norwood is the poster boy. He looks good, because he's supposed to look good. Positioning himself on a place on the pitch where his percentage passes go unchallenged. The problem is, if you fill the team with this type of player, you end up around about 16th, because you dont score enough goals to win enough games. This is what Adkins did, and what Clarke may also have been copying.

The opposite is to allow the team to make individual mistakes, providing they are, as a team, ultimately more effective. I would say that I am one of those fans. I probably appreciated Blackman more because of this mindset, and currently have more respect for HRK and, in particular, Williams. For this reason, I wanted McDermott back, because I thought he would be more effective.

However, I'm not sure much is changing.
We're playing the same formation, with the same players, in the same style. We have a centre midfield triangle with the top man being a forward with his back to goal. The combined roles of the bottom two in the triangle could really be done by one man. Our full backs don't contribute to forward play anymore (who WAS our left Back prior to Jordan?). We are still as conservative as we have been for 3 years.

I can only think that one of two things are happening:
a) Our dressing room is weak. In short, a squad of cowards.
b) Brian really HAS changed. He has bought into 4-2-3-1 and wants to play it conservatively.

if its b), then Reading's fortunes wont change. We'll be 18th this season, and 18th next when all the loans have gone. I hope Brian mans up. Maybe the key is Obita. There is a full back who can contribute further up the pitch. Time will tell if he actually will play that role.

[Vision]

If McD is so shit, why are people expecting him to achieve more in 12 games than the last two 'better' managers did in close to 3 years?

Most people seem to think the last two managers were shit. They're hoping McDermott is better. Some of us have *yet* to see any real evidence.

And, as I seem to have no credibility anyways I might as well go the whole way and disagree with everyone, I think it's impossible to really know if Adkins could have turned out to be a good manager because of the circumstances. He took over a team in a tailspin then had to negotiate his way through a club in turmoil. Clarke picked up a poor team, got massive backing to assemble a good squad, then ruined it with bizarre decisions and poor judgements over talking to Fulham. McDermott has a good squad and a stable club. After 12 games there's little sign of addressing the problems left by Clarke - problems which by and large are in the domain of the manager, not the club structure. I hope he turns it around.

I think the bit in bold I'd take issue with. There is nothing particularly stable or especially good about the current situation. In fact it's a bit of a mess and was in freefall when he arrived.

We've 6 loan signings when we can only play 5 at a time ( and none of them can be considered anywhere near an unqualified success) and there's a more than fair chance none of them will be here next season. In fact only one of them is in any way a regular starter and that's because we don't really have another option.
We've several senior players out of contract at the end of the season and little sign that we're committing to them at this stage. We're about to embark on our final season of parachute payments so any further contract deals beyond a year will have to be done with that in mind.
We sold our two top league scorers within weeks of the new manager arriving.

Now my personal opinion is that long term none of the above will necessarily be a bad thing. The current squad is far too bloated and the sort of togetherness that we and McD had success with before has come from a tighter knit unit where everyone feels invested in what's going on and thinks they can and will contribute. We've promising youngsters but currently the pathway to the first team is more blocked than it's been for several seasons.

There's a massive amount of work to be done in the summer and I'm optimistic come the end of it , we will have something that looks more like a committed Reading team than the last couple of seasons. I'm also cautiously optimistic that McD is the right man to do it and the fact that he's done it for us at this level suggests I've reason for that.

His start hasn't been great and if people wish to make an absolute judgement on him right now (not that you're are AR) then that's their prerogative but it seems a bit futile given the personnel he's working with now bears little resemblance to the one he'll have to work with at the end of the summer.

To say what he's inherited is stable though really doesn't match the facts as far as I can see.

[OLLIE KEARNS]

Some good, logical posts above, much of which I agree with. The only real disagreement I'd have with many posters and commentators is the concept that we have a good squad because league tables don't lie after 30 games . I think we are average at best, both collectively and individually.
As a collective example we have a back five that don't defend well as a unit and have individual weaknesses especially around stopping crosses and defending the back post. They also contribute little going forward as Dr H mentioned above re the full backs. Contrast this to our last league winning side who conceded less than one goal a game and also contributed a fair number of goals and assists at the other end. They weren't individual stars by any stretch but they were a highly effective unit at both ends of the pitch.
Individually, I think some players are rated on reputation / past performance as opposed to what we see before our eyes. Gareth McCleary for example, is a shadow of the player he was when we signed him. He looks to have lost 1/2 a yard of pace and nearly always comes inside meaning he rarely gets crosses into the box. Also, if you had never heard of Vydra you'd think, based on what you actually see, that he was a promising young player who gets the odd goal but gives the ball away 9 times out of 10 as opposed to a £10m player.
Add to this that the loan model has clearly not worked and there is significant need for change if we are to start moving forward again. And the fun as a fan (not a customer ) will be watching to see how this evolves next year. Hopefully a combination of proper championship performers and some of our own youngsters flourishing can combine to give us an effective team going forwards. Anything that happens this season I'd see as the first steps towards next season as opposed to passing judgment at this point in time.

[John Smith]

Got to love the Team Board.

Armadillo has some valid concerns and then the usual clowns come in, make some noise, and we're back to square one.

I personally think you should have some concerns. The Wolves game was the best commercial for football non-attendance you are going to see, and, despite the negative away team tactics and the terrible weather, McDermott was there and must be at least partially responsible.

I see the club as conservative vs non-conservative. The conservative supporters value a lack of individual mistakes. Norwood is the poster boy. He looks good, because he's supposed to look good. Positioning himself on a place on the pitch where his percentage passes go unchallenged. The problem is, if you fill the team with this type of player, you end up around about 16th, because you dont score enough goals to win enough games. This is what Adkins did, and what Clarke may also have been copying.

The opposite is to allow the team to make individual mistakes, providing they are, as a team, ultimately more effective. I would say that I am one of those fans. I probably appreciated Blackman more because of this mindset, and currently have more respect for HRK and, in particular, Williams. For this reason, I wanted McDermott back, because I thought he would be more effective.

However, I'm not sure much is changing.
We're playing the same formation, with the same players, in the same style. We have a centre midfield triangle with the top man being a forward with his back to goal. The combined roles of the bottom two in the triangle could really be done by one man. Our full backs don't contribute to forward play anymore (who WAS our left Back prior to Jordan?). We are still as conservative as we have been for 3 years.

I can only think that one of two things are happening:
a) Our dressing room is weak. In short, a squad of cowards.
b) Brian really HAS changed. He has bought into 4-2-3-1 and wants to play it conservatively.

if its b), then Reading's fortunes wont change. We'll be 18th this season, and 18th next when all the loans have gone. I hope Brian mans up. Maybe the key is Obita. There is a full back who can contribute further up the pitch. Time will tell if he actually will play that role.

I don't think I've ever read such drivel in my entire life. What are you on about?! "I see the club as conservative vs non-conservative"?!

You're completely over-analysing everything here - it's just football, no need to make it into the pretentious drama you're trying to. Back to your padded cell.

[Portsmouth Royal]

If McD is so shit, why are people expecting him to achieve more in 12 games than the last two 'better' managers did in close to 3 years?

Most people seem to think the last two managers were shit. They're hoping McDermott is better. Some of us have *yet* to see any real evidence.

And, as I seem to have no credibility anyways I might as well go the whole way and disagree with everyone, I think it's impossible to really know if Adkins could have turned out to be a good manager because of the circumstances. He took over a team in a tailspin then had to negotiate his way through a club in turmoil. Clarke picked up a poor team, got massive backing to assemble a good squad, then ruined it with bizarre decisions and poor judgements over talking to Fulham. McDermott has a good squad and a stable club. After 12 games there's little sign of addressing the problems left by Clarke - problems which by and large are in the domain of the manager, not the club structure. I hope he turns it around.

I largely agree with all this.

I would place myself amongst those who weren't entirely delighted by our most recent managerial appointment. That being said, He is here now and I desperately want him to succeed. Certainly he deserves a chance to put his own stamp on things before we come to too many conclusions. At the minimum to my mind that means we see where we are in summer 2017 (short of some truly diabolical run of form).

I also think that Adkins got dealt a pretty rough hand all told. No fan of his media presence but he is a better manager than we saw. Hindsight would certainly seem to suggest that his limited playing budget just got spent by the chairman on players he didn't really want. Thus meaning he could not implement the style of play we hired him for.

I too would question the quality of the squad, which to my mind is more a collection of talented individuals then a coherently assembled squad of players whose qualities multiply each others or mask each others weaknesses.

Would take issue with Dr H's comment about Norwood and players of his ilk. To my mind almost any successful team needs players who will sit and recycle the ball. Its not glamorous and they often get accused by some of 'crab passing' or 'just pointing their arms' but its a vital role. Our 94 side was fast and pretty direct but still contained Kevin Dillon. The 106 side was fast and pretty direct but still had James Harper.

[Extended-Phenotype]

Got to love the Team Board.

Armadillo has some valid concerns and then the usual clowns come in, make some noise, and we're back to square one.

I personally think you should have some concerns. The Wolves game was the best commercial for football non-attendance you are going to see, and, despite the negative away team tactics and the terrible weather, McDermott was there and must be at least partially responsible.

I see the club as conservative vs non-conservative. The conservative supporters value a lack of individual mistakes. Norwood is the poster boy. He looks good, because he's supposed to look good. Positioning himself on a place on the pitch where his percentage passes go unchallenged. The problem is, if you fill the team with this type of player, you end up around about 16th, because you dont score enough goals to win enough games. This is what Adkins did, and what Clarke may also have been copying.

The opposite is to allow the team to make individual mistakes, providing they are, as a team, ultimately more effective. I would say that I am one of those fans. I probably appreciated Blackman more because of this mindset, and currently have more respect for HRK and, in particular, Williams. For this reason, I wanted McDermott back, because I thought he would be more effective.

However, I'm not sure much is changing.
We're playing the same formation, with the same players, in the same style. We have a centre midfield triangle with the top man being a forward with his back to goal. The combined roles of the bottom two in the triangle could really be done by one man. Our full backs don't contribute to forward play anymore (who WAS our left Back prior to Jordan?). We are still as conservative as we have been for 3 years.

I can only think that one of two things are happening:
a) Our dressing room is weak. In short, a squad of cowards.
b) Brian really HAS changed. He has bought into 4-2-3-1 and wants to play it conservatively.

if its b), then Reading's fortunes wont change. We'll be 18th this season, and 18th next when all the loans have gone. I hope Brian mans up. Maybe the key is Obita. There is a full back who can contribute further up the pitch. Time will tell if he actually will play that role.

I don't think I've ever read such drivel in my entire life. What are you on about?! "I see the club as conservative vs non-conservative"?!

You're completely over-analysing everything here - it's just football, no need to make it into the pretentious drama you're trying to. Back to your padded cell.

Attacking someone who was passively airing a harmless opinion is a more conclusive sign of madness, tbh.

I get what he is saying. You either play freely without fearing making a mistake (football flows better, skill level goes up, you try more things, are more adventurous, feel more confident etc) or you play with caution and try to avoid making mistakes (you are more disciplined, play I but are playing with fear and a lack of freedom and adventure).

Our fans love to jump on a mistake. We bash players for not trying to make a killer pass, and then bash them when they try and it doesn't quite come off.

In fact, paradoxically, the same fans who slate McD for his conservative tactics are the ones slating players and discouraging them when they try something special.

Go figure.

[Dr_Hfuhruhurr]

[. What are you on about?! "I see the club as conservative vs non-conservative"?!
.

We've been playing safe percentage balls for 2 years and its getting us nowhere. It minimises individual mistakes and ups the percentage posession but isnt very effective.
In the past McDermott didnt do this, but this time around Im not sure that he isnt doing the same thing as Adkins and Clarke.

Sorry if my style wasnt very clear.

[John Smith]

Attacking someone who was passively airing a harmless opinion is a more conclusive sign of madness, tbh.

I get what he is saying. You either play freely without fearing making a mistake (football flows better, skill level goes up, you try more things, are more adventurous, feel more confident etc) or you play with caution and try to avoid making mistakes (you are more disciplined, play I but are playing with fear and a lack of freedom and adventure).

Our fans love to jump on a mistake. We bash players for not trying to make a killer pass, and then bash them when they try and it doesn't quite come off.

In fact, paradoxically, the same fans who slate McD for his conservative tactics are the ones slating players and discouraging them when they try something special.

Go figure.

Go figure what? He was over analysing football. We go into different games with different approaches, for example away at a club higher in the league I'm sure we'll be more cautious but then when we're 4-1 up against Ipswich we can try 30 yard screamers. Neither of you are making points, you're just trying to seem more intelligent than you are, based on no more of an insight than anyone else has from the comfort of their plastic seat in the ground.

Go to the game and enjoy it.

[wingnut]

Yeah that's gr8 tactical insight there, John. Just the sort of thing we need on a discussion forum.

[Top Flight]

This is McDermott football.

https://youtu.be/k1VTqDH1ABI

What is not to like?

Give the man a chance to assemble his own side. If nothing much has changed since the Clarke era, don't you think it's because we have the same players? McDermott will sort things out. He is a top manager... As Snowball's statistics show only Pardew has a better win record than McDermott. What manager do you all want? I think Pep Guardiola has already accepted the Man City job so he won't be available.... Mourinho is still available, but I'm not sure he'll come.

[Top Flight]

Here is another example of McDermott football...

http://youtu.be/THs915bDkyI

I suppose this isn't very exciting either.

[Extended-Phenotype]

 
Most people seem to think the last two managers were sht. They're hoping McDermott is better. Some of us have *yet* to see any real evidence.
 
And, as I seem to have no credibility anyways I might as well go the whole way and disagree with everyone, I think it's impossible to really know if Adkins could have turned out to be a good manager because of the circumstances. He took over a team in a tailspin then had to negotiate his way through a club in turmoil. Clarke picked up a poor team, got massive backing to assemble a good squad, then ruined it with bizarre decisions and poor judgements over talking to Fulham. McDermott has a good squad and a stable club. After 12 games there's little sign of addressing the problems left by Clarke - problems which by and large are in the domain of the manager, not the club structure. I hope he turns it around.

 
I think the bit in bold I'd take issue with. There is nothing particularly stable or especially good about the current situation. In fact it's a bit of a mess and was in freefall when he arrived.
 
We've 6 loan signings when we can only play 5 at a time ( and none of them can be considered anywhere near an unqualified success) and there's a more than fair chance none of them will be here next season. In fact only one of them is in any way a regular starter and that's because we don't really have another option.
We've several senior players out of contract at the end of the season and little sign that we're committing to them at this stage. We're about to embark on our final season of parachute payments so any further contract deals beyond a year will have to be done with that in mind.
We sold our two top league scorers within weeks of the new manager arriving.
 
Now my personal opinion is that long term none of the above will necessarily be a bad thing. The current squad is far too bloated and the sort of togetherness that we and McD had success with before has come from a tighter knit unit where everyone feels invested in what's going on and thinks they can and will contribute. We've promising youngsters but currently the pathway to the first team is more blocked than it's been for several seasons.
 
There's a massive amount of work to be done in the summer and I'm optimistic come the end of it , we will have something that looks more like a committed Reading team than the last couple of seasons. I'm also cautiously optimistic that McD is the right man to do it and the fact that he's done it for us at this level suggests I've reason for that. 
 
His start hasn't been great and if people wish to make an absolute judgement on him right now (not that you're are AR) then that's their prerogative but it seems a bit futile given the personnel he's working with now bears little resemblance to the one he'll have to work with at the end of the summer.
 
To say what he's inherited is stable though really doesn't match the facts as far as I can see.

 
Totally agree with Vision here. Surely if you can empathise with the two previous managers in what appears to be a monumentally tough task, it would be rational to apply that same empathy to McD, if you are to have any credibility.

The players form, confidence, belief and togetherness was in pieces. We have a feeling that some players were causing conflict. We have to many loan players, injured players, unhappy players, out-of-form players, players out of contract, players wanting to leave, strikers who can’t score, wingers who want to be strikers, defenders who can’t find consistency and goalkeepers who can’t keep a clean sheet. We have a club which has been badly damaged by having to recover the costs of broken promises from a previous owner. We are a jumbled squad of puzzle pieces from different zigsaws assembled by different people and we can’t seem to find a formation that doesn’t in some way harm the form of or remove the need for a key player. And we seem to have owners who are more interested in putting together a music video and building a shopping centre than giving the manager support in the transfer market without meddling, double-crossing or undermining the gaffer.  

Basically, things aren’t rosy. Adkins tried to install an ineffective brand of football and Clarke along with destroying team spirit with his betrayal has merely exasperated the muddled, incomplete, broken football philosophy at RFC. What McD has to do is a massive task, whether you want him here or not. It would be the same massive task whoever the manager was.

The biggest, most key ingredient to Reading figuring out, building and settling within a philosophy again is stability. Stability is found with a manager who isn’t going to have his head turned by other offers, who isn’t going to get fired for risking relegation trying to overhaul a club which cannot afford to start from scratch and who is renowned for specialising in repairing the problems we have – lack of team spirit, confidence, togetherness and consistency. Brian might not be your favourite choice, the most ambitious choice or even the BEST choice but he IS a GOOD choice. And surely as fans of the club we should be civil and fair when analysing his progress.

As we found out this window, we aren’t a rich club with football-prioritising owners. We are a club with enough finance to be stable, with owners who want RFC to be a business, with the football on the pitch being just enough to keep fans interested and the club in the championship. Anything more is icing on the cake to them. But that doesn’t mean we can’t enjoy the football and hope that the players and managers within our scope might get it together against the odds and produce something awesome from time to time. We have to have rational expectations of what can be achieved, starting with the goals we set for the manager, regardless of who he is.

 

 

[Extended-Phenotype]

Attacking someone who was passively airing a harmless opinion is a more conclusive sign of madness, tbh.

I get what he is saying. You either play freely without fearing making a mistake (football flows better, skill level goes up, you try more things, are more adventurous, feel more confident etc) or you play with caution and try to avoid making mistakes (you are more disciplined, play I but are playing with fear and a lack of freedom and adventure).

Our fans love to jump on a mistake. We bash players for not trying to make a killer pass, and then bash them when they try and it doesn't quite come off.

In fact, paradoxically, the same fans who slate McD for his conservative tactics are the ones slating players and discouraging them when they try something special.

Go figure.

Go figure what? He was over analysing football. We go into different games with different approaches, for example away at a club higher in the league I'm sure we'll be more cautious but then when we're 4-1 up against Ipswich we can try 30 yard screamers. Neither of you are making points, you're just trying to seem more intelligent than you are, based on no more of an insight than anyone else has from the comfort of their plastic seat in the ground.

Go to the game and enjoy it.

All happy days here mate. You are the hostile fella taking it all a bit seriously and sounding like you aren't enjoying yourself.

I'm just saying I see the Dr's point, we do play to a conservative philosophy these days. I don't think that's particularly complex or high brow to say, nor particularly offensive either.