BFTG - Burnley

[Hoop Blah]

I agree with the general thrust of your argument SKB, however...

....We had probably the best 'number 10/attacking midfielder' I've seen at this club since Simon Osborn was doing his thing, in Lucas Piazon, and quite frankly we were tearing this league a new arsehole.

Piazon wasn't actually starting regularly, let alone playing in the 10, when we had our run of good form.

Yesterday, he was stuck on the left wing whilst Stephen Quinn sat in his 'off the striker' role. Both did excellent at the start of the season in the exact opposite positions, so it just seemed like madness to me that they were where they were.

Similarly Quinn wasn't playing in that wide left role that Piazon was yesterday either.

Our good form came when we, largely, had Sa through the middle and with Vydra to the left of him and Blackman to the right. We then had a midfield 3 of Quinn, Tshibola and Norwood. It worked so well because at times it slipped effortlessly into a 4-4-2 with Quinn on the left and Blackman on the right. It worked well, IMO, because Quinn was so flexible and is such a good player. The wheels started to come off when he got injured and Clarke started to use Piazon in his role and he just didn't have the legs or the tenacity to pull it off anywhere near as well.

That's the crux of this for me. Our expectations now Brian's back in charge are at ground level. The only thing that came out of yesterday's game was that there was some passion and spirit. But was there really any until Barton and his mates started winding things up? We reacted by simply getting stuck in too. Jesus, is that all we can be excited about now? External drivers of w@nkers on the opposition being needed to give us a bit of a pointless spark?

I do think this is a great point though. If it wasn't for the refs incompetence and the Burnley players actions injecting a bit of passion and fight into our lot where would that game have gone? Having said that it was good to see them stand up together because of it. I'm not sure that would've happened a few months back.

I thought it was a pretty entertaining game as a result, devoid of much quality football admittedly, but if Gray had taken his early sitter, which looked easier to miss than score from, I think the day would've been completely different.

[paultheroyal]

Coming away from that game today, listening to Radio Berks and reading what the local hack had to say about the performance, you could have been easily forgiven for thinking that was a really entertaining nil nil, played with a high tempo and with a demonstrable increase in the standard we've been used to of late.

Wow! Is this really where we've ended up this season? In August and September we had a slick, stylish attacking side that played beautiful football in the opposition's half. We had two centre backs that whilst not infallible, were oozing the kind of class and confidence that we've not seen in the Reading back four since the days of Wdowczyck and Williams.

We had a striker that had a lovely touch, held the ball up well and was a constant outlet for the defensive players. He had an eye for goal too. We had probably the best 'number 10/attacking midfielder' I've seen at this club since Simon Osborn was doing his thing, in Lucas Piazon, and quite frankly we were tearing this league a new arsehole.

Yesterday, he was stuck on the left wing whilst Stephen Quinn sat in his 'off the striker' role. Both did excellent at the start of the season in the exact opposite positions, so it just seemed like madness to me that they were where they were.

Then you had Kermorgant. Now I like to think I give players a good chance before I judge them, and I don't think I've done that here yet, but the early signs are that he just doesn't look anywhere near good enough to help us challenge for play off places this year, let alone next year when he's gotten even older. A very typical McDermott kind of player. Slow and steady.

That's the crux of this for me. Our expectations now Brian's back in charge are at ground level. The only thing that came out of yesterday's game was that there was some passion and spirit. But was there really any until Barton and his mates started winding things up? We reacted by simply getting stuck in too. Jesus, is that all we can be excited about now? External drivers of w@nkers on the opposition being needed to give us a bit of a pointless spark?

Those who remember the last promotion season properly will remember the first half that season being absolutely woeful, and the team being relentlessly booed off the pitch after most home games. We're back there right now, and I can't see the wood for the trees this time around.

I went through the roller coaster of thinking 'NO!' when they appointed McD, then getting genuinely excited on his first couple of games back, and now back to earth with a bump.

Yesterday was nothing short of dire in a footballing respect. We need to win games, not play centre backs in front of the back four to congest the hell out of the midfield. When we lost the ball yesterday, you could have chucked a large bed sheet over 6 or 7 Reading players at any one time. It was clueless and like watching kids' football.

Maybe I expect too much, hoping to see us string more than 3 passes together, but ask anyone who has a genuine idea about football and they'll agree that anyone who fails to get a run together with this current squad has massively underperformed.

Was Steve Clarke a twat for talking to Fulham? Yes. Should he have been given longer to put this right? Definitely. Was he getting more out of these players? I think so.

Suppose that's pretty irrelevant now, but it's just such a shame that we now see a battling performance as such a big win for us.

Team lost its way long before McDermott showed up.

Burnley had they won yesterday would of sat comfortably in 2nd having taken 20+ points from last 24.

McDermott has had to come in dealing with egos, loan debacles, out of contract players and the like. Was I hoping for a new manager boost and play off push... Yep! Will I now take stability and championship football next season to start again, absolutely.

Is McDermott the man to do that - absolutely.

If anything it was wonderful to see mcshane putting himself on the line, players high fiving, dogged spirit, penalty spot being cut up - showed some fight and spirit largely missing in recent weeks.
Sadly let's enjoy getting the 15 points for safety, let's have some fun in the cup next week, and let's enjoy cheering on the team!

[Ian Royal]

Put my thoughts on the match thread by mistake, here they are in the right spot.

Hard fought game full of errors from both sides and the ref. Burnley had the better chances and should have won but we deserved a point if nothing more.

Al-Habsi 9 MotM several good saves including the pen. Nothing wrong.
Gunter 7 same old Gunter
Obita 7 defended fairly well
Cooper 5 awful passing and gifted them a break
McShane 8 rock
Norwood 5 awful dead balls and poor passing
Hector 5 tries to bring it down but awful passing
Quinn 7 busy but not really sure what his role was until Norwood went off.
HRK 8 caused loads of problems but never anyone in the box
Piazon 5 lightweight and soft
Kermorgant 5 isolated and doesn't look like scoring

McCleary 5 off the pace
Rakels 7 little service but looks bright

Ref. Awful. Had no control at all. I don't really like the red card used for handbags, but it's the way it's used and when you kick out not once but twice you have to walk.

Yet again a team who fouls almost every break we get and barrly gets a card. Two or three times kick the ball away, nothing.

Not sure if it was a pen or not but it looked like a Johnson dive special may have been contact. Had no control of our players. Pushing and shoving everywhere. HRK hacking up the spot. Shambles.

It looks like none of the players believe we can score.

Burnley were as bad as us, but got some sitters (and spaffed them all).

Good point in the end.

Is it Kermogants fault that he was isolated. As many other posters have noted he won almost every header and it's hardly his fault that the players around him failed to capltalise. Don't normally have too many arguments with your posts but 5 is a derisory mark for his performance in this game.

may be harsh. He won a lot of headers, but i didn't feel he directed them particularly well even when there was occasionally support. He hit the post, but i don't think it would have beaten the keeper and he blazed high and wide from an excellent break.

[Ian Royal]

Two wrongs don't make a right etc etc. They were a dirty bunch of cnuts, no doubt about it and Barton probably shouldn't have finished on the field, but digging up the spot is petulant cheating and i don't approve.

I don't get the weird "they were worse so we should be fine with poor behaviour" line coming from Leon and Hampshire.

I've played nicely with you recently Ian Royal, but if you are going to do your thing where you don't read what people actually write and then base an opinion on what you think they've written I will get the fcuking hump.

I've written that HRK was a twat for doing what he did however Burnley were just apalling cheats etc etc etc

Your call Ian.

You'll have to forgive me if I've misinterpreted the post where you tell RG he's fallen for Dyche's spin and seem to make out he's saying HRK's actions are worse than diving and elbows. I don't really see how to interpret it differently

[sandman]

Now we really could do with a Joey Barton type of player in the Reading squad, someone with so much passion and bite, someone who wears his heart on his sleeve and always gives 100% combined with no lack of skill or commitment. Very much in the mould of a Mick Gooding, Trevor Hurlock or even a "Punch up Price" type of player. Barton Definitely MOM.

I doubt even Joseph Barton would want a character reference from you.

[Maneki Neko]

Coming away from that game today, listening to Radio Berks and reading what the local hack had to say about the performance, you could have been easily forgiven for thinking that was a really entertaining nil nil, played with a high tempo and with a demonstrable increase in the standard we've been used to of late.

Wow! Is this really where we've ended up this season? In August and September we had a slick, stylish attacking side that played beautiful football in the opposition's half. We had two centre backs that whilst not infallible, were oozing the kind of class and confidence that we've not seen in the Reading back four since the days of Wdowczyck and Williams.

We had a striker that had a lovely touch, held the ball up well and was a constant outlet for the defensive players. He had an eye for goal too. We had probably the best 'number 10/attacking midfielder' I've seen at this club since Simon Osborn was doing his thing, in Lucas Piazon, and quite frankly we were tearing this league a new arsehole.

Yesterday, he was stuck on the left wing whilst Stephen Quinn sat in his 'off the striker' role. Both did excellent at the start of the season in the exact opposite positions, so it just seemed like madness to me that they were where they were.

Then you had Kermorgant. Now I like to think I give players a good chance before I judge them, and I don't think I've done that here yet, but the early signs are that he just doesn't look anywhere near good enough to help us challenge for play off places this year, let alone next year when he's gotten even older. A very typical McDermott kind of player. Slow and steady.

That's the crux of this for me. Our expectations now Brian's back in charge are at ground level. The only thing that came out of yesterday's game was that there was some passion and spirit. But was there really any until Barton and his mates started winding things up? We reacted by simply getting stuck in too. Jesus, is that all we can be excited about now? External drivers of w@nkers on the opposition being needed to give us a bit of a pointless spark?

Those who remember the last promotion season properly will remember the first half that season being absolutely woeful, and the team being relentlessly booed off the pitch after most home games. We're back there right now, and I can't see the wood for the trees this time around.

I went through the roller coaster of thinking 'NO!' when they appointed McD, then getting genuinely excited on his first couple of games back, and now back to earth with a bump.

Yesterday was nothing short of dire in a footballing respect. We need to win games, not play centre backs in front of the back four to congest the hell out of the midfield. When we lost the ball yesterday, you could have chucked a large bed sheet over 6 or 7 Reading players at any one time. It was clueless and like watching kids' football.

Maybe I expect too much, hoping to see us string more than 3 passes together, but ask anyone who has a genuine idea about football and they'll agree that anyone who fails to get a run together with this current squad has massively underperformed.

Was Steve Clarke a twat for talking to Fulham? Yes. Should he have been given longer to put this right? Definitely. Was he getting more out of these players? I think so.

Suppose that's pretty irrelevant now, but it's just such a shame that we now see a battling performance as such a big win for us.

Cheer up m8!

[Maneki Neko]

Sort out defence. Slowly shift balance forward until u hit the sweet spot.

Thats how brian does management.

Hes had his two top scorers sold, the squad is a mess of loans and ending contracts, and the soul has been ripped out of the club and team. Of course it will take time.

I think hes doing fine, and have confidence hes the man to build the squad again in the summer.

[Ian Royal]

I think we're a confidence boost and reliable player for the left away from making it work.

I'd like to see us try Norwood and Quinn sitting, with Williams behind a central striker (Vydra or Rakels). HRK on the right and then we nust need to find someone reliable for the left. If McCleary can sort himself out, maybe HRK. Oh for a younger Jobi McAnuff.

Perhaps Vydra or Rakels could do it with Kermie upfront.

We really missed Williams yesterday IMO. He believes he (and we) can score and he helps add bodies to attack.

I thought Hector proved he's not a midfielder against Walsall and Burnley. Did the defensive work well enough but was atrocious trying to be more creative and influence the game with passes.

We also miss Tish. He's a calming steady influence who just keeps it simple.

[PieEater]

I thought Burnley looked like a team that had learnt from the Prem experience to have a "better standard of cheating", the slightest contact they went down and won free kicks and a dodgy pen, yet went in hard on our players and because of a totally inept ref didn't pick up the bookings.

The ref really did us no favours, he should have booked 4 Burnley players in the first half. As it was we end up with more bookings than them and a pen decision. He completely fell for their gamesmanship, Dyche should be grateful our players don't roll around like his or they'd of been down to 9 men.

Otherwise we battled and will be happy with the point given they missed 2 sitters and a pen.

[If you still hate Futcher]

If it wasn't for the refs incompetence and the Burnley players actions injecting a bit of passion and fight into our lot where would that game have gone? Having said that it was good to see them stand up together because of it. I'm not sure that would've happened a few months back.

It was the same for the Walsall game, we didn't look interested until their right back had a go at Obita and got our lot fired up

[bcubed]

Coming away from that game today, listening to Radio Berks and reading what the local hack had to say about the performance, you could have been easily forgiven for thinking that was a really entertaining nil nil, played with a high tempo and with a demonstrable increase in the standard we've been used to of late.

Wow! Is this really where we've ended up this season?In August and September we had a slick, stylish attacking side that played beautiful football in the opposition's half. We had two centre backs that whilst not infallible, were oozing the kind of class and confidence that we've not seen in the Reading back four since the days of Wdowczyck and Williams.

We had a striker that had a lovely touch, held the ball up well and was a constant outlet for the defensive players. He had an eye for goal too. We had probably the best 'number 10/attacking midfielder' I've seen at this club since Simon Osborn was doing his thing, in Lucas Piazon, and quite frankly we were tearing this league a new arsehole.

Yesterday, he was stuck on the left wing whilst Stephen Quinn sat in his 'off the striker' role. Both did excellent at the start of the season in the exact opposite positions, so it just seemed like madness to me that they were where they were.

Then you had Kermorgant. Now I like to think I give players a good chance before I judge them, and I don't think I've done that here yet, but the early signs are that he just doesn't look anywhere near good enough to help us challenge for play off places this year, let alone next year when he's gotten even older. A very typical McDermott kind of player. Slow and steady.

That's the crux of this for me. Our expectations now Brian's back in charge are at ground level. The only thing that came out of yesterday's game was that there was some passion and spirit. But was there really any until Barton and his mates started winding things up? We reacted by simply getting stuck in too. Jesus, is that all we can be excited about now? External drivers of w@nkers on the opposition being needed to give us a bit of a pointless spark?

Those who remember the last promotion season properly will remember the first half that season being absolutely woeful, and the team being relentlessly booed off the pitch after most home games. We're back there right now, and I can't see the wood for the trees this time around.

I went through the roller coaster of thinking 'NO!' when they appointed McD, then getting genuinely excited on his first couple of games back, and now back to earth with a bump.

Yesterday was nothing short of dire in a footballing respect. We need to win games, not play centre backs in front of the back four to congest the hell out of the midfield. When we lost the ball yesterday, you could have chucked a large bed sheet over 6 or 7 Reading players at any one time. It was clueless and like watching kids' football.

Maybe I expect too much, hoping to see us string more than 3 passes together, but ask anyone who has a genuine idea about football and they'll agree that anyone who fails to get a run together with this current squad has massively underperformed.

Was Steve Clarke a twat for talking to Fulham? Yes. Should he have been given longer to put this right? Definitely. Was he getting more out of these players? I think so.

Suppose that's pretty irrelevant now, but it's just such a shame that we now see a battling performance as such a big win for us.

Totally agree with this bit - see most disappointing season thread

But given where we are now I thought the game was a vast improvement on recent performances. We didn't look as if we would concede on every attack and I like Hector, ideally Tish, in front of the back four. Without that we have been overrun in midfield. Not sure about Piazon on the left. He needs to play behind the front man - we all know that by now.

And I did like the fighting attitude. Ok in the cold light of day, we probably would all say HRK shouldn't have dug up the spot but I felt it was ok at the time and in the spirit of fighting back against Burnley and the ref!

A similar set up and fighting performance could make for a close game against West Brom

[West Stand Man]

I agree with the general thrust of your argument SKB, however...

....We had probably the best 'number 10/attacking midfielder' I've seen at this club since Simon Osborn was doing his thing, in Lucas Piazon, and quite frankly we were tearing this league a new arsehole.

Piazon wasn't actually starting regularly, let alone playing in the 10, when we had our run of good form.

Yesterday, he was stuck on the left wing whilst Stephen Quinn sat in his 'off the striker' role. Both did excellent at the start of the season in the exact opposite positions, so it just seemed like madness to me that they were where they were.

Similarly Quinn wasn't playing in that wide left role that Piazon was yesterday either.

Our good form came when we, largely, had Sa through the middle and with Vydra to the left of him and Blackman to the right. We then had a midfield 3 of Quinn, Tshibola and Norwood. It worked so well because at times it slipped effortlessly into a 4-4-2 with Quinn on the left and Blackman on the right. It worked well, IMO, because Quinn was so flexible and is such a good player. The wheels started to come off when he got injured and Clarke started to use Piazon in his role and he just didn't have the legs or the tenacity to pull it off anywhere near as well.

That's the crux of this for me. Our expectations now Brian's back in charge are at ground level. The only thing that came out of yesterday's game was that there was some passion and spirit. But was there really any until Barton and his mates started winding things up? We reacted by simply getting stuck in too. Jesus, is that all we can be excited about now? External drivers of w@nkers on the opposition being needed to give us a bit of a pointless spark?

I do think this is a great point though. If it wasn't for the refs incompetence and the Burnley players actions injecting a bit of passion and fight into our lot where would that game have gone? Having said that it was good to see them stand up together because of it. I'm not sure that would've happened a few months back.

I thought it was a pretty entertaining game as a result, devoid of much quality football admittedly, but if Gray had taken his early sitter, which looked easier to miss than score from, I think the day would've been completely different.

So basically you disagree with every key point he makes! And well done too as it is pretty much unfounded opinion.

[3points]

My biggest concern at the moment is we are now onto our third manager who has struggled to get this group of players to play as a team. I don't think it is necessarily the managers' fault (though partly). But we've struggled to score goals for three or four seasons, ever since Roberts got injured. Pog was a decent finisher, but didn't get enough chances. For Sa, read Pog. Vydra and Kermogant have both scored a decent amount of goals for other championship clubs, but just don't look like doing it for us on a regular basis. Yet Hooper is now scoring for fun at Sheffield Weds, Gray is doing the business at Burnley, Rhodes has always scored for an often poor Blackburn team, etc, etc.

We don't create enough chances and I think this run broadly coincides with the Norwood / Williams midfield partnership. It also is the same period where we have relied heavily on HRK and McCleary as our main creative outlets (and McAnuff as well). We just seem an unbalanced squad unable to defend and attack in equal parts. Like yesterday we can set up defensively or we go almost 4-2-4 leaving the defence exposed because our midfield 2 doesn't contain a proper defence minded player like Legs, Tish, etc. Personally I'd give Norwood a rest. He's played almost every minute of every game this season and I think it is starting to show. Try a couple of different combinations in midfield at the moment, give Evans a run alongside Quinn.

Boyd looked a handful yesterday as he was given a free role. Barton, for all his antics, is a good footballer (if a throughly unpleasant tosser) and dominated the midfield as their number 14 barely touched the ball. They also had two full backs who never gave our wide players any time and space, unlike Gunter who just needs to be more aggressive when defending. One of their early chances came partially as a result of Gunter standing off Arfield who played a good pass into the box.

Next year I think we will see Rakels playing off Kermogant which I don't think will be a bad combination if Rakels can get fit enough to pay the Noel Hunt, run the channels, type role.

[Platypuss]

Fair enough about the pitch. It is in a poor condition again. Equally, if it was a penalty then AAH should have been booked (at least). HRK was booked, so he got his desserts. As to the childishness, as ever that was pretty much 50/50 just like when real kids are having a go attach other.

Deserts.

[Ian Royal]

My biggest concern at the moment is we are now onto our third manager who has struggled to get this group of players to play as a team. I don't think it is necessarily the managers' fault (though partly).

It's not really the same group of players though is it.

Al-Habsi, Bond, Taylor, McShane, Tish, Evans, Quinn, John, Hurtado, Vydra, Kermorgant and Rakels are all new to the squad this season.
Cooper, Norwood, Cox and Ferdinand new to it last season.

We only have Gunter, Hector, Obita, Williams, McCleary and HRK left who served more than half a season under Adkins, and half those predate him! Only two more actually played regularly for him in just that half season. Inevitably I've forgotten one or two somewhere, but this is an almost entirely different squad to the one Adkins had.

[Jack Celliers]

Facebook shows it might have been a penalty

[3points]

It feels like Norwood has been here forever. Is this really only his second season?

It felt like (and I'm sure the stats say otherwise) that our results were just as good, if not better, when we had a massive injury list at the start of one Adkins' seasons and we had to rely more on our academy players like Jake Taylor and Aaron Kuhl

[Rea Ding]

Just as well the Reading team isn't full of total wet wipes like Ian Royal and Royal Ginger who would just sit back and accept being blatantly cheated out of a point.

Hats off to HRK and others; two wrongs most certainly did make a right.

+1
Exciting game, thought we played well
Burnley were average and Gray is the most arrogant disgusting player I've seen this season but justice was sweet

[Ian Royal]

It feels like Norwood has been here forever. Is this really only his second season?

It felt like (and I'm sure the stats say otherwise) that our results were just as good, if not better, when we had a massive injury list at the start of one Adkins' seasons and we had to rely more on our academy players like Jake Taylor and Aaron Kuhl

Yeah that was last season. Time flies when you're .... oh.

[harry]

Just as well the Reading team isn't full of total wet wipes like Ian Royal and Royal Ginger who would just sit back and accept being blatantly cheated out of a point.

Hats off to HRK and others; two wrongs most certainly did make a right.

+1
Exciting game, thought we played well
Burnley were average and Gray is the most arrogant disgusting player I've seen this season but justice was sweet

I wouldn't normally approve of HRK's "gamesmanship" but given the joke of a ref and Burnley's behaviour I was cheering him on at the time.
Barton's a horrible individual. Constantly cheating. Elbows, high feet, how many time did he run through one of our players miles off the ball? Hardman tactics are different. He's just a thug. Fair play to Quinn standing up to him & Hec throwing him out of the way when he tried to get the ball off him.
Gray should have walked for his kicks on Obita. Great pics of him grinning as he knows he conned the ref (not hard) while HRK and Cooper are blasting him in each ear.
Dyche complained AAH moved off his line. It's so far away that he can't even see the moral high ground.

A cracking 0-0 and good to see some fire in our players and them not allowing themselves to be bullied. Now if we can add some quality end product ....