BFTG - Rotherham

[Maneki Neko]

Pretty turgid game overall, and agree with most of what has been posted so far so I won't repeat it: better with 442, HRK MotM, good save from AAH to keep us in it.

The Rotherham squad last night was like something from Championship Manager 2008 - Matt Derbyshire, Jerome Thomas, Leon Best, Lloyd Doyley, Danny Collins.

The only thing I was slightly surprised/disappointed by was the attendance. I thought we'd have managed more than 13,400 ish given the amount of ticket offers and incentives the club put on for the game last night.

I know its cold, and a week day, and at the end of jan, and only a few days after our cup game....... but agreed.
every season ticket was able to bring two people for free last night, and we still only got 13000


they literally couldn't give them away last night.

[Hoop Blah]

I thought playing a 4-1-4-1 formation with Hector sitting between defence and midfield was a bit negative from Brian last night.

We were too negative but it wasn't so much a 4-1-4-1 as a 4-3-3 with Hector in sitting the middle of the midfield 3 and the two wingers playing high up the pitch. The problem was that we're just too far apart and so everyone seems a bit isolated, especially the rather poor Kermorgant who has failed to impress me at all yet.

Positives = Win, clean sheet and some good individual performances of which Hector and HRK stood out.

Negatives = Err, we were too negative ! If we play a holding midfielder then we need to make much better use of the front five going forward. One of the two CM's needs to be prepared to make the box and make runs beyond Kermogant from time to time and the two wide men also need to go more central and support him when the ball is on the other side of the pitch. We were so rigid in our shape that Kermogant was constantly isolated and struggled as a result. It was no surprise that the goal came from him having someone running off him in behind (Rakels) for the first in the entire match.

The system will certainly make us competitive in every game but it is going to be painful to watch unless we can get more cohesion from our attacking players. Let's hope we are a bit more positive against a doomed Charlton on Saturday

Nigh on perfect analysis Ollie.
A caller into BBRB made a very similar point last night - about Hector being almost a third centre half rather than a defensive midfielder, meaning Cooper and McShane dropped too far back, this all resulting in leaving too long a gap to Norwood and hence Termagant was isolated with no supply. I thought that was a great call, rather than the usual platitudes about "passion", but Williams seemed almost a bit affronted that a mere fan could have such a good insight.

Yep, totally agree. It's a good enough formation IF the full backs and two midfielders (Norwood and Quinn last night) can get forward and support the front 3 but that just didn't happen enough.

Overall it was a pretty desperate game and, although they hardly threatened, we could easily have been 2-0 after the penalty and Al-Habsie's very decent save from the first half header. Apart from the goal I can't remember Camp having to make a proper save.

Hector played well, as did Quinn and Robson-Kanu, and Obita probably had one of his better games too. If he can get forward and delivery some more quality balls into the box we might stand a chance of scoring the odd goal! Neither of the January buys look like they're really added anything yet though. That's a bit worrying in my book, especially when looking ahead to next season.

[Maneki Neko]

Neither of the January buys look like they're really added anything yet though. That's a bit worrying in my book, especially when looking ahead to next season.

rakels?

'ck off

[Maneki Neko]

good formations and tactics are those that win games.

lol at looking for the luxury of entertainment in this sorry season

[genome]

We saw why Ola John hasn't been starting up to now. As an impact sub he has been great. Yesterday he was totally anonymous

What? What game were you watching?

[RoyalJames101]

I'm not John's biggest fan but I thought he did OK last night. He needs to take note from HRK though and be more direct. He clearly has the pace to go past people but too often he slows the game down.

An ugly win but it felt like a game we would have lost a few months ago, see QPR at home. I would take these all season rather than playing exciting football but losing each week.

HRK and Hector were brilliant. We look so much better defensively with Hector in front of the back 4 and he's even starting to play the ball around nicely. HRK is a different player, seems to have found his pace and strength again.

Quinn and McShane were solid as ever.

WNG.

[leon]

Neither of the January buys look like they're really added anything yet though. That's a bit worrying in my book, especially when looking ahead to next season.

rakels?

'ck off

To say he didn't make a difference when we went two up front is quite stunning.

[andrew1957]

Agree re John. Thought he had a reasonably good game and was also subbed at the right time so that McCleary came on with fresh legs.

HRK and Hector both outstanding again. Everyone did ok and generally kept their cool against an awful, dirty typical Warnock side.

And in general I agree with Brian's' tactics of playing a version of 4- 3 -3 and keeping a game tight for 65 minutes or so then reverting to 4-4-2 to get the win. He did this very successfully at times during his last period here too. Many Championship games are games of attrition (like last night) against teams that try to grind you down and so keeping it tight until players tire and then going for it makes a lot of sense to me and so not sure I agree with those who think we should be more adventurous from the off. Otherwise if you are too positive at the start and a team like Rotherham nick a goal you spend the rest of the game chasing it and normally lose.

[genome]

Rakels was fine, just needs to try and stay onside

[Maneki Neko]

Agree re John. Thought he had a reasonably good game and was also subbed at the right time so that McCleary came on with fresh legs.

HRK and Hector both outstanding again. Everyone did ok and generally kept their cool against an awful, dirty typical Warnock side.

And in general I agree with Brian's' tactics of playing a version of 4- 3 -3 and keeping a game tight for 65 minutes or so then reverting to 4-4-2 to get the win. He did this very successfully at times during his last period here too. Many Championship games are games of attrition (like last night) against teams that try to grind you down and so keeping it tight until players tire and then going for it makes a lot of sense to me and so not sure I agree with those who think we should be more adventurous from the off. Otherwise if you are too positive at the start and a team like Rotherham nick a goal you spend the rest of the game chasing it and normally lose.

THIS THIS THIS!

[leon]

Positives = Win, clean sheet and some good individual performances of which Hector and HRK stood out.

Negatives = Err, we were too negative ! If we play a holding midfielder then we need to make much better use of the front five going forward. One of the two CM's needs to be prepared to make the box and make runs beyond Kermogant from time to time and the two wide men also need to go more central and support him when the ball is on the other side of the pitch. We were so rigid in our shape that Kermogant was constantly isolated and struggled as a result. It was no surprise that the goal came from him having someone running off him in behind (Rakels) for the first in the entire match.

The system will certainly make us competitive in every game but it is going to be painful to watch unless we can get more cohesion from our attacking players. Let's hope we are a bit more positive against a doomed Charlton on Saturday

Nigh on perfect analysis Ollie.
A caller into BBRB made a very similar point last night - about Hector being almost a third centre half rather than a defensive midfielder, meaning Cooper and McShane dropped too far back, this all resulting in leaving too long a gap to Norwood and hence Termagant was isolated with no supply. I thought that was a great call, rather than the usual platitudes about "passion", but Williams seemed almost a bit affronted that a mere fan could have such a good insight.

The caller missed the point.

Norwood wasn't playing further up enough - his positioning was poor. When he had the ball he didn't take it up the pitch and then release in dangerous areas and he consistently failed to find space out of possession between their defence and midfield. As a result Quinn dropped to fill the space and Kermogant was left on his own to flick on for no one in particular.

Bring on Rakells and we have two up front able to hold the ball up and play off each other allowing the wide players to push up and we score the goal.

With this formation he can't sit at the back and spray lofted passes - so either he changes or when Williams is back he'll come in instead.

[Hoop Blah]

good formations and tactics are those that win games.

lol at looking for the luxury of entertainment in this sorry season

IMO, over the long term, results generally follow performances and we're not seeing those performances yet.

I've no problem with the formation but players make formations work more often than the other way round. It's where I agree with your previous comments about McDermott being a pragmatic manager. He's also one that's under short term pressure to deliver results due to the nature of football club management these days.

I don't see improving performances as a luxury, and as much as I want to enjoy watching my football, if we'd created a hat full more chances than Rotherham last night whilst been pretty dull and attritional then I wouldn't be saying the performance was pretty dire. As it is I reckon we probably created 3 good chances to their 2.

[Hoop Blah]

Neither of the January buys look like they're really added anything yet though. That's a bit worrying in my book, especially when looking ahead to next season.

rakels?

'ck off

He looks keen but I've not seen much in his touch or quality on the ball to get excited about as yet.

I'm not writing him off at all, just a little underwhelmed so far.

[SCIAG]

First up, from the North Stand it looked like a stonewall penalty. Rotherham very unlucky.

I don't think that midfield was right at all. Norwood and Hector are both naturally defensive minded players. IMO in a midfield three you either need one defensive player (Norwood/Hector/maybe Fernandez) and two box-to-box (Williams/Quinn/Tshibola/Fernandez - not sure where Evans fits in), or two defensive players and one in a more advanced role. That could be Williams or Quinn with the right instruction, but I think Piazon or Rakels would make more sense. I don't think you can drop Norwood because he's such a threat at set pieces, and Hector's in good form, so I'd really push Quinn on or else drop him.

As it was, Kermogant was even more isolated than Pog ever was. I thought John and HRK had decent games, but Rotherham got too many back behind the ball and they struggled to break them down at times.

Dull game, typical of Warnock, glad we won.

[Hoop Blah]

rakels?

'ck off

To say he didn't make a difference when we went two up front is quite stunning.

The switch in formation made a difference yes, as did his running and the fact he was closer to Kermorgant to mean we had some threat up there.

I didn't say he didn't have an impact, just that I don't think they've added a great deal to the squad, as yet.

[Longhorn1970]

Neither of the January buys look like they're really added anything yet though. That's a bit worrying in my book, especially when looking ahead to next season.

rakels?

'ck off

To say he didn't make a difference when we went two up front is quite stunning.

Pretty ineffective and remains a dud with kormorant, Piazon made an impact against WBA and his reward is ?

[Ian Royal]

Agree re John. Thought he had a reasonably good game and was also subbed at the right time so that McCleary came on with fresh legs.

HRK and Hector both outstanding again. Everyone did ok and generally kept their cool against an awful, dirty typical Warnock side.

And in general I agree with Brian's' tactics of playing a version of 4- 3 -3 and keeping a game tight for 65 minutes or so then reverting to 4-4-2 to get the win. He did this very successfully at times during his last period here too. Many Championship games are games of attrition (like last night) against teams that try to grind you down and so keeping it tight until players tire and then going for it makes a lot of sense to me and so not sure I agree with those who think we should be more adventurous from the off. Otherwise if you are too positive at the start and a team like Rotherham nick a goal you spend the rest of the game chasing it and normally lose.

That's all well and good, but the balance isn't right yet, it's too negative, hence why we offered barely any threat for 60 minutes. And Rovrum could have been 2-0 up anyway as someone else said, but for a fabulous save and a debateable penalty given as a dive. Admittedly Kermie should have scored too, but we appear to have bought the Leicester, not Bournemouth version.

[Longhorn1970]

Neither of the January buys look like they're really added anything yet though. That's a bit worrying in my book, especially when looking ahead to next season.

rakels?

'ck off

He looks keen but I've not seen much in his touch or quality on the ball to get excited about as yet.

I'm not writing him off at all, just a little underwhelmed so far.

Better players in div 1

[Zammo]

Neither of the January buys look like they're really added anything yet though. That's a bit worrying in my book, especially when looking ahead to next season.

rakels?

'ck off

To say he didn't make a difference when we went two up front is quite stunning.

Absolute Reading legend already.

[Hoop Blah]

First up, from the North Stand it looked like a stonewall penalty. Rotherham very unlucky.

I don't think that midfield was right at all. Norwood and Hector are both naturally defensive minded players. IMO in a midfield three you either need one defensive player (Norwood/Hector/maybe Fernandez) and two box-to-box (Williams/Quinn/Tshibola/Fernandez - not sure where Evans fits in), or two defensive players and one in a more advanced role. That could be Williams or Quinn with the right instruction, but I think Piazon or Rakels would make more sense. I don't think you can drop Norwood because he's such a threat at set pieces, and Hector's in good form, so I'd really push Quinn on or else drop him.

As it was, Kermogant was even more isolated than Pog ever was. I thought John and HRK had decent games, but Rotherham got too many back behind the ball and they struggled to break them down at times.

Dull game, typical of Warnock, glad we won.

Evans is an odd one. From what I've read and heard his natural position would be in front of the back four, as Hector played last night. Tshibola would be a similar role too wouldn't he? I'd expect both of them to be a little more adventurous than Hector though, as hinted at by the calling into BBC Berks last night. Norwood is kind of similar too though, which is fine if we want to play two players protecting the back four.

For me Quinns best role looks to be as the left of a 3 or as a more defensive wide midfielder to compensate for a winger on the right, as Clarke had as playing in September. He's such a good little player though he can probably be effective in anywhere in our midfield.