LOLiverpooLOL - Next Season

[No Fixed Abode]

no behaviour on the part of football supporters which caused or contributed to the dangerous situation at the Leppings Lane turnstiles.

Don't for a second think this is winding me up, btw, Kesmond. Quite happy to call you out as a bit of a cnut on this all day.

Don't think for a second I'm trying to wind anyone up. I know how moronic some football fans can be.

[leon]

No mention of Hillsborough on the front of the Sun or Times this morning...

The silence from the Sun, and the lack of contrition in the statement last night by the current head of South Yorks police, leave a very bad taste in the mouth.

The Sun's political editor Trevor Kavanagh (he's been there for donkeys years) whining yesterday that it wasn't their fault and they (Kelvin MacKenzie and the Thatcher government) took what South Yorks police said in good faith. "They lied to us all" .

What a prick.

Kavanagh is essentially Murdoch's spokesman in the UK on all things press related (eg on press regulation, Leveson etc etc) News International's view has never wavered from the one stated in that initial article - despite all the evidence to the contrary including the Taylor Report in 1989.

[No Fixed Abode]

The Sun's political editor Trevor Kavanagh (he's been there for donkeys years) whining yesterday that it wasn't their fault and they (Kelvin MacKenzie and the Thatcher government) took what South Yorks police said in good faith. "They lied to us all" .

What a prick.

No mention of it on the front of the Mail today either.

It's a slightly different message coming from The Sun though...

Is there nothing in The Sun today about it? Or are people just upset it isn't front page news?

[stealthpapes]

The video I watched clearly shows fans 'jibbing' but it also clearly shows the impact of opening that side gate.

I've always been a bit cynical about Hillsborough, I did think that the fans do have to take some responsibility, not all but some, as there were many, many similar cases at games throughout that decade. At the risk of white-knighting, you go to the game and have a drink and it's all a bit crowded and rowdy. I've been on the train to Liverpool on a United game there, and it's rammed tight. But that doesn't mean that you don't come home.

It was an accident, the police did not mean do cause that crush, they lost control of the situation and in the panic of the day, they failed to take effective action that would have saved lives. The gate opens, hundreds, if not thousands of fans pour into an already crowded space.

There was a cover-up. Even if the police had done everything right and people had still been killed, the cover-up takes it into a different place altogether.

[Vision]

And of course the ménage a trois of Government, Print media and police that was so tight during the whole decade meant it was an absolute piece of piss to mount a cover up.

[No Fixed Abode]

The video I watched clearly shows fans 'jibbing' but it also clearly shows the impact of opening that side gate.

I've always been a bit cynical about Hillsborough, I did think that the fans do have to take some responsibility, not all but some, as there were many, many similar cases at games throughout that decade. At the risk of white-knighting, you go to the game and have a drink and it's all a bit crowded and rowdy. I've been on the train to Liverpool on a United game there, and it's rammed tight. But that doesn't mean that you don't come home.

It was an accident, the police did not mean do cause that crush, they lost control of the situation and in the panic of the day, they failed to take effective action that would have saved lives. The gate opens, hundreds, if not thousands of fans pour into an already crowded space.

There was a cover-up. Even if the police had done everything right and people had still been killed, the cover-up takes it into a different place altogether.

Well put papes.

[bobby1413]

This made me laugh ... not the content but the sheer stupidity of some people:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... rough.html

Basically:

- Carlisle United Vice Chairman tweeted minutes after the juries verdict "Don't mention the Heysel Stadium disaster!"
- Then a few minutes later he tweeted: "Were you involved in a football stadium disaster that wasn't your fault? Call us now and get the compo you deserve!"

He has claimed that his account was hacked and the account has been deleted

Hacked... Yea I'm sure

[Ouroboros]

no behaviour on the part of football supporters which caused or contributed to the dangerous situation at the Leppings Lane turnstiles.

Don't for a second think this is winding me up, btw, Kesmond. Quite happy to call you out as a bit of a cnut on this all day.

Don't think for a second I'm trying to wind anyone up. I know how moronic some football fans can be.

Imagine getting so upset about football that you slander the innocent dead because they supported a different team

[No Fixed Abode]

Nobody is slandering the dead.

Imagine making out somebody is slandering the dead to gain a few brownie points with fellow nobbers.

[Mr Udagawa]

The video I watched clearly shows fans 'jibbing' but it also clearly shows the impact of opening that side gate.

I've always been a bit cynical about Hillsborough, I did think that the fans do have to take some responsibility, not all but some, as there were many, many similar cases at games throughout that decade. At the risk of white-knighting, you go to the game and have a drink and it's all a bit crowded and rowdy. I've been on the train to Liverpool on a United game there, and it's rammed tight. But that doesn't mean that you don't come home.

It was an accident, the police did not mean do cause that crush, they lost control of the situation and in the panic of the day, they failed to take effective action that would have saved lives. The gate opens, hundreds, if not thousands of fans pour into an already crowded space.

There was a cover-up. Even if the police had done everything right and people had still been killed, the cover-up takes it into a different place altogether.

that's the most succinct summary of my feelings towards it all I've seen.

there were so many failings before during and after by the authorities. The cover up and smear-campaigns do take the whole thing to a different level

I disagree with the "Was there any behaviour on the part of the football supporters which caused or contributed to the dangerous situation at the Leppings Lane turnstiles? "

The behaviour HAD to contribute to the situation. Regardless of whether cordon's or other measures should have been in place.

But Police and authorities are there to deal with unexpected or irregular situations .

[Zammo]

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/apr/26/hillsborough-disaster-deadly-mistakes-and-lies-that-lasted-decades

Very long, but essential reading on the subject. May change a few minds.

[BR2]

Although most unlikely, one day Kes may have children.
Will he let them go to football on their own?
As a parent it is impossible to imagine what it is like for a friend, family member or (worse?) your child just not coming home whether that be from school, work or a football match.
Those that have been part of the dreadful experience of that day at least today might feel that those they cared about have at last been recognised as victims and not perpetrators.

I always think of that poor Hicks family where he was elsewhere in the ground and couldn't get to where his girls were.
Presumably in his household (as with many of us) he was the one to encourage his daughters to go to football.
I did read that he is now divorced and wonder if it was impossible for him to live with a guilt that he might have felt for encouraging his girls to follow something that he enjoyed so much and passed on to them-I also wonder whether his wife blamed him for encouraging their daughters, something that might not even have ever been said but in her darkest days just thought.

BTW great to see Everton ( a club that probably suffered most when they lost that cup final against the back-drop of emotion and support for Liverpool FC and missing out on European football because of Heysel) doing and saying all the right things over these past 27 years.
Football may be tribal but the class of that club has shone through.

[Sanguine]

The video I watched clearly shows fans 'jibbing' but it also clearly shows the impact of opening that side gate.

I've always been a bit cynical about Hillsborough, I did think that the fans do have to take some responsibility, not all but some, as there were many, many similar cases at games throughout that decade. At the risk of white-knighting, you go to the game and have a drink and it's all a bit crowded and rowdy. I've been on the train to Liverpool on a United game there, and it's rammed tight. But that doesn't mean that you don't come home.

It was an accident, the police did not mean do cause that crush, they lost control of the situation and in the panic of the day, they failed to take effective action that would have saved lives. The gate opens, hundreds, if not thousands of fans pour into an already crowded space.

There was a cover-up. Even if the police had done everything right and people had still been killed, the cover-up takes it into a different place altogether.

that's the most succinct summary of my feelings towards it all I've seen.

there were so many failings before during and after by the authorities. The cover up and smear-campaigns do take the whole thing to a different level

I disagree with the "Was there any behaviour on the part of the football supporters which caused or contributed to the dangerous situation at the Leppings Lane turnstiles? "

The behaviour HAD to contribute to the situation. Regardless of whether cordon's or other measures should have been in place.

But Police and authorities are there to deal with unexpected or irregular situations .

The logical conclusion of that view can only be that you consider all football matches to be dangerous situations.

[Vision]

The video I watched clearly shows fans 'jibbing' but it also clearly shows the impact of opening that side gate.

I've always been a bit cynical about Hillsborough, I did think that the fans do have to take some responsibility, not all but some, as there were many, many similar cases at games throughout that decade. At the risk of white-knighting, you go to the game and have a drink and it's all a bit crowded and rowdy. I've been on the train to Liverpool on a United game there, and it's rammed tight. But that doesn't mean that you don't come home.

It was an accident, the police did not mean do cause that crush, they lost control of the situation and in the panic of the day, they failed to take effective action that would have saved lives. The gate opens, hundreds, if not thousands of fans pour into an already crowded space.

There was a cover-up. Even if the police had done everything right and people had still been killed, the cover-up takes it into a different place altogether.

that's the most succinct summary of my feelings towards it all I've seen.

there were so many failings before during and after by the authorities. The cover up and smear-campaigns do take the whole thing to a different level

I disagree with the "Was there any behaviour on the part of the football supporters which caused or contributed to the dangerous situation at the Leppings Lane turnstiles? "

The behaviour HAD to contribute to the situation. Regardless of whether cordon's or other measures should have been in place.

But Police and authorities are there to deal with unexpected or irregular situations .

Only if by "behaviour" you mean trying to get into a football match. After 2 years of a painstaking inquest which has examined the events of the day from every single point of view I'd say the conclusion is pretty clear. I'm not sure why people seem so keen to doubt it.

[Vision]

I always think of that poor Hicks family where he was elsewhere in the ground and couldn't get to where his girls were.
Presumably in his household (as with many of us) he was the one to encourage his daughters to go to football.
I did read that he is now divorced and wonder if it was impossible for him to live with a guilt that he might have felt for encouraging his girls to follow something that he enjoyed so much and passed on to them-I also wonder whether his wife blamed him for encouraging their daughters, something that might not even have ever been said but in her darkest days just thought.

Even more heartbreaking for Trevor Hicks was that he had to leave one daughter at the ground while he went in an ambulance with the other one. One of the most emotional points of the inquest (and touched on in the David Conn article Zammo has linked to) was the daughter he left behind died in the arms of an off duty policeman who read out a statement addressed to the family that he did all he could and that she died in the arms of "someone who cared".

[stealthpapes]

The video I watched clearly shows fans 'jibbing' but it also clearly shows the impact of opening that side gate.

I've always been a bit cynical about Hillsborough, I did think that the fans do have to take some responsibility, not all but some, as there were many, many similar cases at games throughout that decade. At the risk of white-knighting, you go to the game and have a drink and it's all a bit crowded and rowdy. I've been on the train to Liverpool on a United game there, and it's rammed tight. But that doesn't mean that you don't come home.

It was an accident, the police did not mean do cause that crush, they lost control of the situation and in the panic of the day, they failed to take effective action that would have saved lives. The gate opens, hundreds, if not thousands of fans pour into an already crowded space.

There was a cover-up. Even if the police had done everything right and people had still been killed, the cover-up takes it into a different place altogether.

that's the most succinct summary of my feelings towards it all I've seen.

there were so many failings before during and after by the authorities. The cover up and smear-campaigns do take the whole thing to a different level

I disagree with the "Was there any behaviour on the part of the football supporters which caused or contributed to the dangerous situation at the Leppings Lane turnstiles? "

The behaviour HAD to contribute to the situation. Regardless of whether cordon's or other measures should have been in place.

But Police and authorities are there to deal with unexpected or irregular situations .

The logical conclusion of that view can only be that you consider all football matches to be dangerous situations.

They were!

They can be.

Without effective control, you've tens of thousands of people in a ludicrously small space. That has the potential to be dangerous. All it takes is something unexpected or irregular.

[stealthpapes]

Only if by "behaviour" you mean trying to get into a football match. After 2 years of a painstaking inquest which has examined the events of the day from every single point of view I'd say the conclusion is pretty clear. I'm not sure why people seem so keen to doubt it.

I'd like to stress that I'm not trying to.

[No Fixed Abode]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36147964

Mamadou Sakho has decided not to challenge the results of his failed drugs test and is not expected to play for Liverpool again this season.

[Hoop Blah]

I get where paps and, to a lesser extent kes, are coming from here.

Fans getting into the game weren't responsible for the deaths but their actions surely contributed to the circumstances that caused such a tragedy.

As a father I find it hard to read some of the accounts, especially Trevor Hicks', and the pain of his and his fellow bereaved is incomprehensible.

[Sanguine]

The question I think these verdicts answered is whether the behaviour of 'going to a football match' can be considered to be contributing towards anything that subsequently occurs. Indeed hasn't that been the primary learning and pleasing development from HIllsborough, that football crowds are no longer treated as 'braying mobs', but rightly as large groups of people attending an event, groups that by their nature are unpredictable, and so plans by minute detail are required to safely manage and control them.