How impressed are you with BMcD's return to the club?

[Maneki Neko]

We still had enough firepower within the squad to have scored more goals than we did under McDermott, it wasn't just selling Sa and Blackman that caused the problems.

I think you underestimate the message sent out when you sell your top striker to a potential play off rival. The moment we did that we were closing the door on the season really. The rot had set in before then , Fulham away or Rotherham away (as McShane pinpointed) but the final nail in the coffin for the season was selling Blackman to Derby. the fact that Sa followed shortly after only compounded the issue.

I'd agree you'd still have hoped for a bigger impact but you can see quite clearly where and why it all went south.

xactly- set a clear message that the owners and the club were going nowhere this season, after clarkes failed experiment.

[Maneki Neko]

And that sums up how badly they've under performed not how poor they are as players.

Just to remind you, Simon Cox scored 8 goals from 21 starts before Christmas last season but you're telling me he's just too shit to score goals in the Championship.

I'm happy to disagree on it, I suppose I can't help it if you're happy to be wrong....

what is simon coxes overall goal scoring record, at this or any other level?
hes not a striker. hes not ever going to form part of an effective strike force.
because he scored 8 goals in 21 games in one tiny patch doesn't change that.



also- it doesn't really matter what they've done it the past. they may have been decent enough once, but they are no longer.

I posted Cox's scoring record above....it's 91 goals in 341 games of which 89 where off the subs bench. It's not the most prolific but then neither is Blackman's record of 53 in 234 either.

I'd accept that perhaps Cox and Kermogant's best days are behind them but you said we had no recognised goalscorers left. The one's we had left have pretty much the same pedigree as the ones we sold, and we still had the best of the lot still in the squad. We just couldn't, for whatever reason, get a good enough return from them.

yeah, and im saying the options we had left weren't that much worse than Sa and blackman. because all of the options we have are shit. selling the best two of our shit strikers, was always going to be an issue because of that.

if you want to pretend that Cox is a recognised goal scorer, that's up to you. not a lot i can do to dissuade you from that particular brand of madness,

[Hoop Blah]

Cox is as much a recognised goalscorer as Nick Blackman is, that's the point.

[Hoop Blah]

I'd agree you'd still have hoped for a bigger impact but you can see quite clearly where and why it all went south.

I'd argue that selling Blackman (2 goals in 13 games) wasn't actually that big an issue

Kinda picking a patch of form to suit you're argument there. When it comes down to it, you're guessing that our remaining strikers had the ability to score as much or more than you'd guess Blackman/Sa would had they stayed.

So it's a bit weak to declare Brendy is wrong because of two variables you have just guessed, imo

Ok, extend Blackman's stats across his whole career, or perhaps across his whole Reading career.

Alternatively you can pick the small patch of form from when we were playing well and he scored his 10 goals in 10 games. That spell of ten games is the real outlier in his performances.

I'm not guessing at anything either EP, I'm just saying that the two we lost weren't more recognised as goalscorers as the ones we had remaining.

My opinion is that we didn't get the best from them over the remainder of the season.

[Top Flight]

I'd argue that selling Blackman (2 goals in 13 games) wasn't actually that big an issue

Kinda picking a patch of form to suit you're argument there. When it comes down to it, you're guessing that our remaining strikers had the ability to score as much or more than you'd guess Blackman/Sa would had they stayed.

So it's a bit weak to declare Brendy is wrong because of two variables you have just guessed, imo

Ok, extend Blackman's stats across his whole career, or perhaps across his whole Reading career.

Alternatively you can pick the small patch of form from when we were playing well and he scored his 10 goals in 10 games. That spell of ten games is the real outlier in his performances.

I'm not guessing at anything either EP, I'm just saying that the two we lost weren't more recognised as goalscorers as the ones we had remaining.

My opinion is that we didn't get the best from them over the remainder of the season.

We had an unbalanced squad that lacked desire. As one poster (Bonboh) rightly said, our motto should have been "lack of resolve, apathy and inability". That sums up exactly the situation that McDermott had walked into. You need transfer windows to fix those problems. Now we have one and now McDermott can start fixing it.

[BR2]

Earlier within one of the thousands of "I love Brian" posts from Top Flight he referred to Gunter as a decent Championship full-back.
IIRC we paid something like £2,000,000 to sign a Premier League full-back and most of us seem to feel that we, Spurs and Forest all thought this player was better than he really is.
Time to cut our losses?
My point has been that I felt we should have let him go and not renewed his contract as we have with the other lightweight (not in terms of actual weight ) Kanu and get in a braver defensive full-back plus a proper winger instead of Kanu.

It is the retention of Gunter regardless of whether he now has a reduced wage or if he plays like a star at the Euros that makes me question Brian's judgement and his own standing at the club.
If Dennis actually was bought without his input that leads me to think that he has been a bit of a wimp and won't fight his corner which is not a good thing for his future or that of our club.

The signing of Yann and the extension of Gunter's contract both strike me as poor judgement.

Please Top Flight don't respond to this with another "trust Brian" posting as that is just conjecture for the future whereas the topic of this thread was to ask how impressed we have been with his return.

[floyd__streete]

I trust Brian, but I am aware he signed Gunter - I player I neither rate nor respect - and the latest Gunter contract extension has come under his second tenure. Trust for Brian does not equate to respecting his every decision. He has made some wretched decisions. Hence why he is manager of Reading, not Real Madrid.

[Ian Royal]

I can't help but think Gunter's mediocrity is holding Obita back too. I can't help but fell a genuinely good fullback - a Harte, Murty or Griffin - would have mentored more of the defensive flaws out of his game. Gunter's not a mold to use for a young fullback.

Fitness over ability
Timidity over assertiveness
Caution over determination
Niceness over winning

Gunter is the only remaining link through all of our last four poor seasons in a row, I believe. Feel free to correct me. HRK was also one but has gone now.

[Top Flight]

Earlier within one of the thousands of "I love Brian" posts from Top Flight he referred to Gunter as a decent Championship full-back.
IIRC we paid something like £2,000,000 to sign a Premier League full-back and most of us seem to feel that we, Spurs and Forest all thought this player was better than he really is.
Time to cut our losses?
My point has been that I felt we should have let him go and not renewed his contract as we have with the other lightweight (not in terms of actual weight ) Kanu and get in a braver defensive full-back plus a proper winger instead of Kanu.

It is the retention of Gunter regardless of whether he now has a reduced wage or if he plays like a star at the Euros that makes me question Brian's judgement and his own standing at the club.
If Dennis actually was bought without his input that leads me to think that he has been a bit of a wimp and won't fight his corner which is not a good thing for his future or that of our club.

The signing of Yann and the extension of Gunter's contract both strike me as poor judgement.

Please Top Flight don't respond to this with another "trust Brian" posting as that is just conjecture for the future whereas the topic of this thread was to ask how impressed we have been with his return.

Tell me who is a better Championship standard right back then? The only one I can think of is Cyrus Christie at Derby. We don't buy players from Derby, we are their feeder club.

[muirinho]

Earlier within one of the thousands of "I love Brian" posts from Top Flight he referred to Gunter as a decent Championship full-back.
IIRC we paid something like £2,000,000 to sign a Premier League full-back and most of us seem to feel that we, Spurs and Forest all thought this player was better than he really is.
Time to cut our losses?
My point has been that I felt we should have let him go and not renewed his contract as we have with the other lightweight (not in terms of actual weight ) Kanu and get in a braver defensive full-back plus a proper winger instead of Kanu.

It is the retention of Gunter regardless of whether he now has a reduced wage or if he plays like a star at the Euros that makes me question Brian's judgement and his own standing at the club.
If Dennis actually was bought without his input that leads me to think that he has been a bit of a wimp and won't fight his corner which is not a good thing for his future or that of our club.

The signing of Yann and the extension of Gunter's contract both strike me as poor judgement.

Please Top Flight don't respond to this with another "trust Brian" posting as that is just conjecture for the future whereas the topic of this thread was to ask how impressed we have been with his return.

I think neither of those are poor judgement.

£2mill for a Premier League-quality full-back would actually be a hell of a bargain. Robbie Brady, for instance, cost £7million from relegated Hull, and couldn't help Norwich stay up. He's the kind of player maybe you are talking about - but we can't afford £7million, and he's not even good enough anyway!
Nottingham Forest wanted to keep Gunter back in 2012, as they recognised that he was a decent Championship-quality full-back (who might or might not step up to Premier League quality). They held out for more than they paid Spurs for him. If an offer of £2mill came in for him, perhaps we might sell him, but you'd have to imagine it would cost that to get anybody in to replace him, unless they were a free transfer. So you'd be relying on getting a free transfer, and something of an unknown quantity in, to replace somebody you've already got, and know exactly what they can do. Why take that risk? And if you didn't renew, you'd get nothing at all for him, and still have to replace him. That one was an absolute no-brainer, I have no idea why anybody would question it. Sure, get another full-back in, - and if the replacement turns out better than Gunter is, than sell him next summer. But letting him go on a free now, when he wanted to stay, and in a position where we had no backup? Now that would be poor judgement.

Yann cost very little in transfer fees, was excellent in the Championship the season before, and there was no reason why he couldn't do that again. With a decent run of games, you can see the partnership with Rakels working pretty well. Who do you think we could have got, for that kind of money, in January, that would have been better?

To be honest, I'm mystified as to why you think those decisions were poor. Playing McCleary at right back and Gunter at left - could definitely see that being a bone of contention. But those contract decisions were absolutely fine.

[Top Flight]

I can't help but think Gunter's mediocrity is holding Obita back too. I can't help but fell a genuinely good fullback - a Harte, Murty or Griffin - would have mentored more of the defensive flaws out of his game. Gunter's not a mold to use for a young fullback.

Fitness over ability
Timidity over assertiveness
Caution over determination
Niceness over winning

I have to say, I do agree with those 4 statements above.

But, Gunter is still decent. And who is better than Gunter that we can realistically bring in right now? Cyrus Christie at Derby looks a fantastic right back. But, we don't buy players from Derby. They buy from us.

He is certainly fit and he does have a decent amount of ability. But issues such as assertiveness, determination and a little bit of aggression, could possibly be coached in to him. He can become a tougher, nastier Gunter. He has to find it from within himself though. There is no reason why he can't progress and improve. Shorey did and so did Murty.

[Top Flight]

Earlier within one of the thousands of "I love Brian" posts from Top Flight he referred to Gunter as a decent Championship full-back.
IIRC we paid something like £2,000,000 to sign a Premier League full-back and most of us seem to feel that we, Spurs and Forest all thought this player was better than he really is.
Time to cut our losses?
My point has been that I felt we should have let him go and not renewed his contract as we have with the other lightweight (not in terms of actual weight ) Kanu and get in a braver defensive full-back plus a proper winger instead of Kanu.

It is the retention of Gunter regardless of whether he now has a reduced wage or if he plays like a star at the Euros that makes me question Brian's judgement and his own standing at the club.
If Dennis actually was bought without his input that leads me to think that he has been a bit of a wimp and won't fight his corner which is not a good thing for his future or that of our club.

The signing of Yann and the extension of Gunter's contract both strike me as poor judgement.

Please Top Flight don't respond to this with another "trust Brian" posting as that is just conjecture for the future whereas the topic of this thread was to ask how impressed we have been with his return.

I think neither of those are poor judgement.

£2mill for a Premier League-quality full-back would actually be a hell of a bargain. Robbie Brady, for instance, cost £7million from relegated Hull, and couldn't help Norwich stay up. He's the kind of player maybe you are talking about - but we can't afford £7million, and he's not even good enough anyway!
Nottingham Forest wanted to keep Gunter back in 2012, as they recognised that he was a decent Championship-quality full-back (who might or might not step up to Premier League quality). They held out for more than they paid Spurs for him. If an offer of £2mill came in for him, perhaps we might sell him, but you'd have to imagine it would cost that to get anybody in to replace him, unless they were a free transfer. So you'd be relying on getting a free transfer, and something of an unknown quantity in, to replace somebody you've already got, and know exactly what they can do. Why take that risk? And if you didn't renew, you'd get nothing at all for him, and still have to replace him. That one was an absolute no-brainer, I have no idea why anybody would question it. Sure, get another full-back in, - and if the replacement turns out better than Gunter is, than sell him next summer. But letting him go on a free now, when he wanted to stay, and in a position where we had no backup? Now that would be poor judgement.

Yann cost very little in transfer fees, was excellent in the Championship the season before, and there was no reason why he couldn't do that again. With a decent run of games, you can see the partnership with Rakels working pretty well. Who do you think we could have got, for that kind of money, in January, that would have been better?

To be honest, I'm mystified as to why you think those decisions were poor. Playing McCleary at right back and Gunter at left - could definitely see that being a bone of contention. But those contract decisions were absolutely fine.

100% agree with you.

[genome]

Playing McCleary at right back and Gunter at left - could definitely see that being a bone of contention.

Initially came about due to injury/suspension, McCleary played very well so Brian kept it for a bit, makes sense to me

[Extended-Phenotype]

I'd argue that selling Blackman (2 goals in 13 games) wasn't actually that big an issue

Kinda picking a patch of form to suit you're argument there. When it comes down to it, you're guessing that our remaining strikers had the ability to score as much or more than you'd guess Blackman/Sa would had they stayed.

So it's a bit weak to declare Brendy is wrong because of two variables you have just guessed, imo

I'm not guessing at anything either EP, I'm just saying that the two we lost weren't more recognised as goalscorers as the ones we had remaining.

Well, you are. It's a guess that Cox and Co. were capable of scoring as much as Blackman/Sa if they stayed. Nothing factual about it.

And Sa and Blackman were our current top goal scorers, so yeah - they are obviously more recognised than the others, numpty

[BR2]

Earlier within one of the thousands of "I love Brian" posts from Top Flight he referred to Gunter as a decent Championship full-back.
IIRC we paid something like £2,000,000 to sign a Premier League full-back and most of us seem to feel that we, Spurs and Forest all thought this player was better than he really is.
Time to cut our losses?
My point has been that I felt we should have let him go and not renewed his contract as we have with the other lightweight (not in terms of actual weight ) Kanu and get in a braver defensive full-back plus a proper winger instead of Kanu.

It is the retention of Gunter regardless of whether he now has a reduced wage or if he plays like a star at the Euros that makes me question Brian's judgement and his own standing at the club.
If Dennis actually was bought without his input that leads me to think that he has been a bit of a wimp and won't fight his corner which is not a good thing for his future or that of our club.

The signing of Yann and the extension of Gunter's contract both strike me as poor judgement.

Please Top Flight don't respond to this with another "trust Brian" posting as that is just conjecture for the future whereas the topic of this thread was to ask how impressed we have been with his return.

Tell me who is a better Championship standard right back then? The only one I can think of is Cyrus Christie at Derby. We don't buy players from Derby, we are their feeder club.

I'll go for "most".
Just watching last night's game I'll give you Bruno and Hunt but hey, you carry on believing if you want to believe-that's what these forums are for, to express opinions as there are no absolutes.

BTW I think Christie has gone backwards and one of the reasons for Derby failing again.

[Hoop Blah]

Well, you are. It's a guess that Cox and Co. were capable of scoring as much as Blackman/Sa if they stayed. Nothing factual about it.

And Sa and Blackman were our current top goal scorers, so yeah - they are obviously more recognised than the others, numpty

My opinion is that we didn't get enough from them and I never said that was a fact.

You don't build a reputation over a dozen or so games, or at least you shouldn't do, and you yourself just said it would be picking a short period of form to fit your argument.

You can't have it both ways.

The fact is that the players we had left have as good, if not better, goalscoring records as the two that left. That's not guesswork, it's just the reality of their career records.

[BR2]

I can't help but think Gunter's mediocrity is holding Obita back too. I can't help but fell a genuinely good fullback - a Harte, Murty or Griffin - would have mentored more of the defensive flaws out of his game. Gunter's not a mold to use for a young fullback.

Fitness over ability
Timidity over assertiveness
Caution over determination
Niceness over winning

I have to say, I do agree with those 4 statements above.

But, Gunter is still decent. And who is better than Gunter that we can realistically bring in right now? Cyrus Christie at Derby looks a fantastic right back. But, we don't buy players from Derby. They buy from us.

He is certainly fit and he does have a decent amount of ability. But issues such as assertiveness, determination and a little bit of aggression, could possibly be coached in to him. He can become a tougher, nastier Gunter. He has to find it from within himself though. There is no reason why he can't progress and improve. Shorey did and so did Murty.

Determination and aggression are two facets that you can't teach somebody well into their 20s IMHO but you carry on thinking that Brian can do that as well as walking on water.

[Top Flight]

Earlier within one of the thousands of "I love Brian" posts from Top Flight he referred to Gunter as a decent Championship full-back.
IIRC we paid something like £2,000,000 to sign a Premier League full-back and most of us seem to feel that we, Spurs and Forest all thought this player was better than he really is.
Time to cut our losses?
My point has been that I felt we should have let him go and not renewed his contract as we have with the other lightweight (not in terms of actual weight ) Kanu and get in a braver defensive full-back plus a proper winger instead of Kanu.

It is the retention of Gunter regardless of whether he now has a reduced wage or if he plays like a star at the Euros that makes me question Brian's judgement and his own standing at the club.
If Dennis actually was bought without his input that leads me to think that he has been a bit of a wimp and won't fight his corner which is not a good thing for his future or that of our club.

The signing of Yann and the extension of Gunter's contract both strike me as poor judgement.

Please Top Flight don't respond to this with another "trust Brian" posting as that is just conjecture for the future whereas the topic of this thread was to ask how impressed we have been with his return.

Tell me who is a better Championship standard right back then? The only one I can think of is Cyrus Christie at Derby. We don't buy players from Derby, we are their feeder club.

I'll go for "most".
Just watching last night's game I'll give you Bruno and Hunt but hey, you carry on believing if you want to believe-that's what these forums are for, to express opinions as there are no absolutes.

BTW I think Christie has gone backwards and one of the reasons for Derby failing again.

I don't really know, that's why I was asking. I don't watch the other Right Back's enough to know who is better than Gunter. I've been impressed every time I've seen Christie play. He looks powerful and seems to have quality. I'm wondering who else there is out there that is better than Gunter.

I don't think Gunter is a bad player, he seems to have a lot of the tools needed. He just needs to improve his game and his overall effectiveness. That will come from work on the training ground and whether Brian can organise a decent team for next season with all the qualities that a team should have. I don't see any reason why Gunter can't be part of that rebuild.

There is no doubt that Gunter needs to do better next season, but frankly every player needs to do a lot better next season. Some of the characters that have no heart or desire need to get out of the club. But, Gunter is not one of those that needs to go in my opinion. He has heart, he has ambition, he has desire, he doesn't think he is too good for Reading FC and he has enough talent and ability. He just needs to be part of a good team.

[Extended-Phenotype]

Well, you are. It's a guess that Cox and Co. were capable of scoring as much as Blackman/Sa if they stayed. Nothing factual about it.

And Sa and Blackman were our current top goal scorers, so yeah - they are obviously more recognised than the others, numpty

My opinion is that we didn't get enough from them and I never said that was a fact.

You don't build a reputation over a dozen or so games, or at least you shouldn't do, and you yourself just said it would be picking a short period of form to fit your argument.

You can't have it both ways.

The fact is that the players we had left have as good, if not better, goalscoring records as the two that left. That's not guesswork, it's just the reality of their career records.

Not having anything both ways. Just saying you're argument is entirely hypothetical meaning you can hardly call Brendy ''wrong'' in his opposite supposition. 

Career records don't make it any less of a guess. Career record would suggest Blackman wouldn't have scored 10 goals at the start of the season. But he did. 

So it's all rather silly stating anyone is right or wrong, when the core of your argument is a comparison between two circumstances you've imagined.‎

[Maneki Neko]

Cox is as much a recognised goalscorer as Nick Blackman is, that's the point.

simply replace recognised with highest scoring then
whatever