Why are "we" booing players keeping the ball?

[wingnut]

This is not to excuse, condone or in any way encourage it (nor can I say that I've actually heard it), but...

We've been trying to play a patient, possession-based passing game now for about 5 years (with slight variations with the different managers) and, for the vast majority of that time, we've been not very good at it - putting it politely.
Watching endless sideways or backwards passing between the back 4 or 5 can be pretty dull and frustrating, particularly if you're behind with the minutes ticking down and often just invites pressure
Our past periods of success have come with a much higher tempo pressing game, getting the ball forward quickly, usually out wide. If we went behind, it at least looked like we were trying to get back into the game. Playing a possession game badly too often looks like we're not even trying.

[Winston Smith]

many young people believe that they have a knowledge of football far greater than they actually do.

Many old people also think this. The majority booing and shouting forward at the games this year have been 40+*



*from the people I have seen/heard.

your survey results are clashing with mine then

it was more the fact that these days I seem to find teenagers who watch Soccer AM, play Championship Manager and can't stop going on about possession stats. they can't seem to even discuss the actual flow of the match anymore, just stats and what is said on instaface about it all.

[P!ssed Off]

ok grandad.

[sandman]

Another thing, people aren't "twats", "idiots", "hoofball merchants" or any other bullshit insult you want to come up with just because they don't like us overplaying the ball at the back with no tempo. Don't assume that just because people want the team to show some intent to score a goal that it's because they simply want us to whack it up field John Beck Style.

Perhaps if you weren't so high and mighty with the name calling then some would be more sympathetic what Stam wants to do.

[Woodcote Royal]

So we know the style of football Stam wants, a possession based game....whether we like it or not that's the style we are going to play

What hacks me off though is our own fans booing when the ball is being played around the back (looking for the opening) - i noticed yesterday that as soon as the fans started letting out a "booooo" the player on the ball panicked and instead lumped it long, giving it straight to the opposition - how is that better than us keeping the ball?

With time, and the players adapting, it will come together and be lovely to watch BUT fcuking boo-ing them isn't going to help

Don't usually attend when the UW is closed but relented last night and went downstairs where someone in the latter stages was making the exact same point a few rows back. Perhaps it was you.

The ball was being retained by the back four, clueless fans get on their back, ball hoofed up to Quinn who loses possession and gets booked in the process.

Most of what was served up by Rogers & Bodgekins was slow, highly tedious and pointless possession but where Stam is trying to take us should produce far superior fare. I certainly enjoyed both last night and Preston; the 2 games I've seen so far.

Some of us last night's side must barely have known their team mates, given they have only just walked through the door, while the rest were either not part of our first 11 and/or returning from injury.

As the man behind me said to typical RFC numpty "Given them a chance, FFS "

[MoorgateRoyal]

Because the majority of our fans are mongs and don't understand football/expect us to win every game at a canter like we did when they probably first started supporting us in 05/06?

Nail. Head.

[Vision]

This is not to excuse, condone or in any way encourage it (nor can I say that I've actually heard it), but...

We've been trying to play a patient, possession-based passing game now for about 5 years (with slight variations with the different managers) and, for the vast majority of that time, we've been not very good at it - putting it politely.
Watching endless sideways or backwards passing between the back 4 or 5 can be pretty dull and frustrating, particularly if you're behind with the minutes ticking down and often just invites pressure
Our past periods of success have come with a much higher tempo pressing game, getting the ball forward quickly, usually out wide. If we went behind, it at least looked like we were trying to get back into the game. Playing a possession game badly too often looks like we're not even trying.

I honestly think what we're seeing now is vastly different to anything that's gone before at this club including Burns, Rodgers, Adkins or anyone else deemed to be possession based. What happened then was that we'd play a bit of tippy tappy then if nothing came of it, it went back to the keeper who walloped it forwards anyway.

This is not happening now. If It goes back to the keeper , then we just start all over again. People can whinge, moan and boo all they like but it's quite clear that Stam is absolutely committed to this in a way that none of the aforementioned managers or their players have been. It's a massive culture shock to fans and players alike but booing is absolutely counter productive. For this to work it requires every player (including the keeper) to be confident on the ball and for every player to want to show for it. If anyone hides or shrinks then it makes all the more difficult. People always talk about the passing game but really it's more about the moving game and knowing they have the support of the crowd can only help.

Not since McGhee can I remember such a huge sea change in playing style and personally I'm fascinated to see how it will play out but one thing is for sure it's going to be an awful lot harder to succeed if the fans start getting on the players backs for simply implementing their manager's instructions.

Whether some like it or not we seem to have an actual plan rather than just getting by and hoping. Lets not strangle it at the embryonic stage just because it's not what we're used to or we lack the patience to appreciate that we're going to make mistakes in developing it.

[Nomad_Royal]

Have to agree with Sandman here.

People talk about the "possession " way of playing football or "hoofball" the more direct way of playing as if those are the only to choices. In truth it is a lot more complicated than that.

Steve Coppell and his coaching team used to talk about possession with progression and fast breaking attacking play. In other words holding possession whilst looking always to move forward, not possession for possessions sake which is what we had under Adkins and Rodgers.

The jury is still out on Jap's way of playing. I do find that current way of playing AT THE MOMENT looks more like possession for possessions sake rather than looking to progress. There is lack of progression. Hence the frustration at the passing backwards and forwards across the back four. What is more frustrating is the lack of movement from midfield and forwards to take advantage of the space that possession should buy us. This may be due to lack of confidence or it may be the way they intend to play, time will tell.

Whatever I will not be booing, slamming down empty seats (which I saw a lot of last night) and bawling get it forward at every opportunity. But I can understand the frustration that causes this and hope to see the team adapt to the new way of playing,with those off the ball creating more movement , space and pace going forward.

[paultheroyal]

Difference this year already is that its the same "tippy tappy" football - (not without scare at the back) - but with faster, sharper passing but more importantly we are creating chances, regularly creating chances - that last goal last night was fantastic.

Reading FC fans never cease to amaze me.

[bcubed]

This is not to excuse, condone or in any way encourage it (nor can I say that I've actually heard it), but...

We've been trying to play a patient, possession-based passing game now for about 5 years (with slight variations with the different managers) and, for the vast majority of that time, we've been not very good at it - putting it politely.
Watching endless sideways or backwards passing between the back 4 or 5 can be pretty dull and frustrating, particularly if you're behind with the minutes ticking down and often just invites pressure
Our past periods of success have come with a much higher tempo pressing game, getting the ball forward quickly, usually out wide. If we went behind, it at least looked like we were trying to get back into the game. Playing a possession game badly too often looks like we're not even trying.

I honestly think what we're seeing now is vastly different to anything that's gone before at this club including Burns, Rodgers, Adkins or anyone else deemed to be possession based. What happened then was that we'd play a bit of tippy tappy then if nothing came of it, it went back to the keeper who walloped it forwards anyway.

This is not happening now. If It goes back to the keeper , then we just start all over again. People can whinge, moan and boo all they like but it's quite clear that Stam is absolutely committed to this in a way that none of the aforementioned managers or their players have been. It's a massive culture shock to fans and players alike but booing is absolutely counter productive. For this to work it requires every player (including the keeper) to be confident on the ball and for every player to want to show for it. If anyone hides or shrinks then it makes all the more difficult. People always talk about the passing game but really it's more about the moving game and knowing they have the support of the crowd can only help.

Not since McGhee can I remember such a huge sea change in playing style and personally I'm fascinated to see how it will play out but one thing is for sure it's going to be an awful lot harder to succeed if the fans start getting on the players backs for simply implementing their manager's instructions.

Whether some like it or not we seem to have an actual plan rather than just getting by and hoping. Lets not strangle it at the embryonic stage just because it's not what we're used to or we lack the patience to appreciate that we're going to make mistakes in developing it.

spot on

it does feel different and whoever said "possession with purpose" got it right
In the Preston game I felt we were always looking for a break and there was regularly movement in front of the players on the ball
The attacks that developed may have been fewer in number than under other managers (not sure that's even true) but they had some quality and with an end product would have resulted in 3 or 4 goals

I for one am prepared to give it a chance and wont be booing

[Starry Blue Hooped Wonder]

So we know the style of football Stam wants, a possession based game....whether we like it or not that's the style we are going to play

What hacks me off though is our own fans booing when the ball is being played around the back (looking for the opening) - i noticed yesterday that as soon as the fans started letting out a "booooo" the player on the ball panicked and instead lumped it long, giving it straight to the opposition - how is that better than us keeping the ball?

With time, and the players adapting, it will come together and be lovely to watch BUT fcuking boo-ing them isn't going to help

^^^ Highlighted is the key bit.

I reckon most of the booing yesterday occured when the players were clearly not looking for an opening. Just clearly passing it back/around aimlessly. Obita was particularly guilty of that. If it is passed around at the back with a purpose (and movement) I think the fans generally will be onside. When it looks like they're passing it around like its injury time and they're hanging on to a win, instead of needing to actually score a goal, then some of our fans will get frustrated.

Yes, totally agree. From where I was sitting last night (Y22), the muttering / booing / pleading for the ball to be passed forward came as a result of the crowd's frustration that the back four seemed content to take the easy pass back along the line without any attempt by them or the midfield to create an opening. At the time we were a goal down and the lack of tempo and progress to the play was frustrating a lot of people.

To be fair, it was a very scratch team with a lot of new starters and MK Dons were also content to play a very disciplined defensive shape in front of us, challenging us to find a way through for a lot of the game. But that's where the players have to recognise what's happening and take some responsibility to take the other team on, ask questions of them and try to make progress forwards.

[winchester_royal]

Anybody trying to relate what Stam's trying to do with the Rodgers/Adkins eras are way off the mark in my opinion. Some clear differences in style, intensity, and also quality.

The club are investing in Stam and the majority of the fans are too. It's just a shame that the minority who can't see the progress are those who are most noticeable.

Rome wasn't built in a day, and anyone expecting high class possession football straight away are being unrealistic.

[Forbury Lion]

Possession football in a 4-4-3 which is a work in progress

Either we were lucky to win that game with no goalkeeper or we failed to make good use of the 12th man.

[Hendo]

Possession football in a 4-4-3 which is a work in progress

Either we were lucky to win that game with no goalkeeper or we failed to make good use of the 12th man.

I'm afraid to say it Forbs but that jokes already been made

[Maneki Neko]

boo ing your own players is counterproductive at best, destructive at worst and also agree that the possession game needs time and patience, from players and fans.

Fans seem to want some sort of amateur 5 aside tactics where they all run forward as soon as they get the ball, and every pass has to be forwards, which is infuriating to play in/watch

there does need to be some balance however.
I like it when the team probes a packed defence, cant find a way through, so brings it back, bringing the oppo onto them, stretching the play, creating space and dragging their players around.
but there are times where its better to try a long ball, or at the very least some quick forward ball. especially during prolonged spells of opposition pressure.
There were signs of this in the brighton game, where there was more variation evident, and its understandable if this nuance was lost with a makeshift team that hadn't really played together yet.

in short, fans are idiots, but frustration is also understandable when youre behind in a cup game and there is still no urgency or tempo from your team.

[Maneki Neko]

Another thing, people aren't "twats", "idiots", "hoofball merchants" or any other bullshit insult you want to come up with just because they don't like us overplaying the ball at the back with no tempo. Don't assume that just because people want the team to show some intent to score a goal that it's because they simply want us to whack it up field John Beck Style.

Perhaps if you weren't so high and mighty with the name calling then some would be more sympathetic what Stam wants to do.

A booer^^

[sandman]

Nope, but can understand it.

[Maneki Neko]

The jury is still out on Jap's way of playing. I do find that current way of playing AT THE MOMENT looks more like possession for possessions sake rather than looking to progress. There is lack of progression

based on what?
the two home league games have seen some passing around at the back, but always for a reason, and also with plenty of attacking intent, wing play, quick breaks forward, long spells of pressure around the oppos box, plenty of crosses, and vs brighton, even some longer balls.

anyone who goes into an away game at difficult grounds like wolves and Newcastle expecting us to sweep the home side aside, and still dominate possession is a fool (and that goes for stam too)

anyone expecting great flowing football from teams of yoof and strangers in the league cup is also a fool, and one who ignores almost every other league cup game against lower league oppo ive ever seen at the madejski.

[MoorgateRoyal]

We've half-arsed this way of playing before and need to fully commit to it this time. We don't want to get into a cycle of employing someone and sacking them after three months when the new style doesn't work, then replacing them with a 'back-to-basics' style coach who plays functional football and doesn't challenge his players.

It won't always work and possession football at this level isn't playing it around the defence then just hoofing it when it doesn't go right. We need to have patience in possession and work the space so when we do get forward it has a better chance of working.

I'd rather watch us keep hold of the ball for a little while, pulling the opposition around a bit, waiting for the space, and going for it when we can, than watching us play a few passes then twatting it down the channel when it doesn't work out right away.

Obviously, sometimes we do need to vary things, especially if we've got people like Beerens or Harriott looking to break. A long 'pass' is different to a long 'ball' and there's nothing wrong with releasing a winger who's sprinting past the back-tracking opposition defence. It's when we just lump it forward aimlessly that the whole ethos breaks down. But, this is where footballing intelligence comes into play and I think someone clever like Swift is the kind of player who can spot when to make a long pass.

I really hope we stick with it and we start to get some good results to go with what I think are fairly encouraging performances. Maybe when it starts to come off a bit, people will realise that mistakes will happen occasionally and in the long-run we're doing the right thing to try and implement a philosophy throughout the club.

[Forbury Lion]

The jury is still out on Jap's way of playing. I do find that current way of playing AT THE MOMENT looks more like possession for possessions sake rather than looking to progress. There is lack of progression

based on what?

Might be confusing lack of progression with lack of end result, We certainly had a number of chances against MK Dons. If we had a top quality striker half of those would have gone in.