BFTG - Norwich home

[bracksroyal10]

You see this bit I don't buy. Norwich were on top but we were starting to get a foothold again. The handball basically stopped us scoring anyway (and you could argue that none of the players involved in the scramble stopped until the ball was in the goal anyway), so without it we would have been 2-1 up.

Norwich have very fragile confidence at the moment, so falling behind again so quickly having got level would have taken them a few minutes at least to get out of their systems. So don't agree we got away with one at all.

Agree with you on this to a degree Stranded, on reflection unlike the Sheffield game we managed to secure the three points and kill the game rather than have a panic in stoppage time and invite on pressure which we seem to do quite a lot!

The big positive is we now have options in our midfield from the starting XI all the way through to the bench with Williams & Swift returning, Kelly is like a new signing and offers a great range of passing and work rate in midfield. Stephen Quinn has also yet to come back too so plenty of experience/options now depending on the scenario going into the final stretch of a game.

Looking at it right now, I think with Kermorgant hitting form and Samuel stepping up to the plate. I wouldn't see it as a disaster if we fail to bring anyone in come the end of January. It would certainly take a very good 15-20 goal a season striker to become available for any trasnfer to happen. Securing GMac, Williams and Kelly on new deals for me is a bigger priority.

Williams will be gone. No-way will Reading offer him a contract anywhere near the money he`s been on for the last 4 years.

Possibly, tbh if he is saying he wants to stay I would rather we keep him until the end of the season while we are still in with a shout and risk losing him for free should we fail to go up.

If we do go up, surely we would have enough money to meet Williams in the middle although that could backfire on us were we to go down during our first season back. (Relegation release clause perhaps or agreement he can go if we fail to go up should he sign now?!)

[Ian Royal]

While the offsides looked bizarre, they were in fact correct under the revised law.
Blame FIFA, the FA, the Football League or the club for not communicating but you CAN now be offside in your own half.
I think it is another daft change, but there it is. i've now seen 3 different refs do this so it wasn't just one official having a nightmare.

I though it was widely publicised at the start of the season. Embarrassing/amusing in equal measure how many of our fans had no idea.

If it was widely publicised then people would have known about it !
No one sat near me knew, and most are pretty knowledgeable football people. Most were aware of some of the other changes (pass back from kick off, players leaving the field after injury) but this one got everyone stumped.
By definition if people didn't know about it it was not properly publicised.
Maybe club's could use their big screens for something useful at the start of the season and show a video explaining any law changes.....

That's not actually true. Most people ignore / forget / don't undrstand anything new that's publicised that doesn't immediately affect them in a clear and significant way.

I'd also dispute that most of the fans in the stand are particularly well informed from previous experience.

I remember hearing about it now it's come up, but I certainly didn't retain it at the time.

[AthleticoSpizz]

evidently, myself and virtually all sat around me, had never had this "new" rule filtered through to them.

Nor it seems, the hundreds of voices eminating from the ES opposite me that were questioning the referees qualifications.

Whatever the justification of the rule change.....it seems a bit counter-productive

[Moonfish]

My uncle was the only one around me that seemed to be aware of the offside rule change, and even he said he'd only found out the other day whilst watching a match on TV.

Even some of the players were seemingly unaware as our lads certainly protested the positioning of the second freekick for offside within our own half.

When did the new rule come in to effect, as this was certainly the first time I'd seen it being implemented? I also wonder what the chances are of it being applied by all match officials on a consistent basis going forwards? Only time will tell I guess.

[Ian Royal]

evidently, myself and virtually all sat around me, had never had this "new" rule filtered through to them.

Nor it seems, the hundreds of voices eminating from the ES opposite me that were questioning the referees qualifications.

Whatever the justification of the rule change.....it seems a bit counter-productive

My understanding is that the change is insignificant, it's simply where the freekick is taken from. Previously it was where you were standing when the ball was played, now it's where you got involved with playing having been offside in the opponants half when it was played.

What's the big deal?

[AthleticoSpizz]

As insignificant as it is.....

the ref took a verbal pummelling unnecessarily

Seems like another pointless FA rule change....which confuses the f11ck out of us.......the thick gate-payers

[tmesis]

evidently, myself and virtually all sat around me, had never had this "new" rule filtered through to them.

Nor it seems, the hundreds of voices eminating from the ES opposite me that were questioning the referees qualifications.

Whatever the justification of the rule change.....it seems a bit counter-productive

My understanding is that the change is insignificant, it's simply where the freekick is taken from. Previously it was where you were standing when the ball was played, now it's where you got involved with playing having been offside in the opponants half when it was played.

What's the big deal?

The big deal was that fans thought a free kick for offside was being taken inside our own half, when they believed that you couldn't be offside in your own half.

Given that they'd scored from the previous occasion when the ball was similarly "misplaced", they were a bit more annoyed than they'd normally be about the ball being moved forwards.

[AthleticoSpizz]

Exactly

(Ian) Just remember that the tail can only wag the dog for so long

As part of this "football family" bemused by this shizz rule tweak that I am having to endure dspite not being aware of it

But never mind.....I guess you had to be there to appreciate the widespread ignorance of its very existence on Boxing Day

[WAZZOCK]

As insignificant as it is.....

the ref took a verbal pummelling unnecessarily

Seems like another pointless FA rule change....which confuses the f11ck out of us.......the thick gate-payers

To be fair, neither of the benches seemed aware of the rule change either.

[Nameless]

As insignificant as it is.....

the ref took a verbal pummelling unnecessarily

Seems like another pointless FA rule change....which confuses the f11ck out of us.......the thick gate-payers

Are you really suggesting it was the FA that changed the law ? The laws are determined by FIFA !

I can definitely see the point of the change, although it is a pretty big change. It's also the sort of change that players and managers should have understood as it potentially could cause them problems.

[AthleticoSpizz]

If I got it wrong FA? FIFA? ...I dont really care

I turn up to watch a simple game for simpletons.....all this "fine-tuning" is just another turn-off

The ref bore the brunt of our ignorance boxing day

Whoever moved the goalposts (in a relatively clandestine manner) can wear whichever badge they like....a pointless tweak that has not filtered down the terraces is my point

[Nameless]

Indeed, and it was wrong with that he did.
I agree that too often the powers that be tinker with the laws for very little benefit. They rarely address the significant problems in the game. The offside law is a perfect example where probably only a tiny number of fans really know the law. the new change will, I think, be hard to officiate. At grass roots level it will be almost impossible.

[Ian Royal]

Indeed, and it was wrong with that he did.
I agree that too often the powers that be tinker with the laws for very little benefit. They rarely address the significant problems in the game. The offside law is a perfect example where probably only a tiny number of fans really know the law. the new change will, I think, be hard to officiate. At grass roots level it will be almost impossible.

Just maybe, the problem with lots of people not understanding the (actually rather simple rule - new or old) is people making no effort to learn it or keep up to date with changes and taking all their knowledge from TV pundits who have also made no effort to learn the laws and any changes.

Maybe it's a valid view that governing bodies shouldn't be considered responsible for spoon feeding everyone their rules. The world isn't primary school. As long as it's easily available, is it that unreasonable to expect fans to make an effort to understand the game they love? Let alone the professionals who earn their money from it?

I don't see how it will be hard to officiate. Instead of moving the ball to where someone was possibly a small time ago, you move it to exactly where they were the instant you called the offence. In most cases it's going to be virtually the same location anyway.

[Nameless]

That comes across as all very passive / aggressive Ian !

I don't think it is that controversial to suggest that a law making body has some kind of responsibility to make sure those affected by a change in it's laws are helped to understand those changes. I don't think my suggestion was excessive or onerous. I think it is slightly bizarre to suggest that FIFA, the FA, the Football League shouldn't help the fans properly understand the basis on which the game is played.
That obviously doesn't mean we can't also take some responsibility, and it is unforgivable for players / managers not the to understand the laws inside out. I have long said that all players should have to qualify as referees and would hope that every club holds a preseason session explaining law changes fully.

Have you every refereed a proper game Ian or run the line ?
We now have a situation where linesmen will be asked to make a complex call. Firstly they need to decide if, when the ball is played (which might be a long way inside one half) a player is in an offside position. There may be several players who are offside. Then they have to observe those players, who may cross back into their own half, possibly a long way back into it, and decide whether they become active. While this is happening they need to remain aware of what is happening in the other half, because the players who were offside may not become active, and the ball may be returned quickly bringing other players into play. Suddenly linesmen are not doing what they are used to doing ( watching across a line) but switching back and forward and it is really hard to do that and make accurate decisions.
I don't think club linesmen will find that at all easy and I think we will see lots of errors.
I'm not sure I've explained that well, but I have run the line for many games and just think that while top linesmen might manage with the complexity the vast majority will find any already tough job has been made harder.
It's not about a one off, discrete 'do I put the ball here or there' decision, it is about the difficulty of fast moving, constantly changing game situations and making sure you are looking in the right place to make accurate calls.
I may be proved wrong and as I no longer officiate I won't get to try it out, it just worries me....

[Stranded]

Indeed, and it was wrong with that he did.
I agree that too often the powers that be tinker with the laws for very little benefit. They rarely address the significant problems in the game. The offside law is a perfect example where probably only a tiny number of fans really know the law. the new change will, I think, be hard to officiate. At grass roots level it will be almost impossible.

Just maybe, the problem with lots of people not understanding the (actually rather simple rule - new or old) is people making no effort to learn it or keep up to date with changes and taking all their knowledge from TV pundits who have also made no effort to learn the laws and any changes.

Maybe it's a valid view that governing bodies shouldn't be considered responsible for spoon feeding everyone their rules. The world isn't primary school. As long as it's easily available, is it that unreasonable to expect fans to make an effort to understand the game they love? Let alone the professionals who earn their money from it?

I don't see how it will be hard to officiate. Instead of moving the ball to where someone was possibly a small time ago, you move it to exactly where they were the instant you called the offence. In most cases it's going to be virtually the same location anyway.

Ian, are you seriously suggesting that fans should read the updated Laws of the game every season just in case something has been tweaked slightly? If so that is a rather ridiculous assertion that someone who just wants to watch should be fully up to speed with every small change. I am pretty clued up about football and the laws, as are a large number of people but I have never once read the Laws of the Game.

It would surely make sense that as the arbiter of the rules, FIFA or the IFAB, simply produce an oversight of changes made. As shown by the rugby video posted it only needs to be a couple of minutes long and can be played on video screens 10 mins before kick off for say the first month of the season. They could also request that the local leagues ensure it is included in their TV deals that the broadcaster play the video before games for an agreed period of time, say every live game in August.

Would be a really straightforward and simple way to notify all about changes, of course some people will forget/ignore but surely better than a press release in June that is forgotten before the season even starts.

[Platypuss]

That comes across as all very passive / aggressive Ian !

I don't think it is that controversial to suggest that a law making body has some kind of responsibility to make sure those affected by a change in it's laws are helped to understand those changes. I don't think my suggestion was excessive or onerous. I think it is slightly bizarre to suggest that FIFA, the FA, the Football League shouldn't help the fans properly understand the basis on which the game is played..

April 1016
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36047575

May 2016:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36256441

28th July:
http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/10512322/laws-of-the-game-changes-ahead-of-the-201617-premier-league-season

10th August:
http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/football/rule-changes-football-fans-need-11729803
https://www.premierleague.com/news/66192

Etc
Etc
Etc

How much fcuking more do you want?

ANd here they are in full:

http://static-3eb8.kxcdn.com/assets/documents/IFAB_laws_of_the_game_changes.pdf

[Nameless]

Platy I would expect better of you.
If thousands of people, most of whom are active followers of the game, some of whom are paid participants, didn't understand what was going on then something went wrong with communication.
My suggestion, that Ian seems to think is so outrageous, of putting the info in front of people at the game seems reasonable.
Apologies if you disagree, but your collection of websites doesn't address the fact that clearly the communication failed.

[Nameless]

Interestingly of your links one doesn't refer to the offside change, and the other three use differing and inconsistent wording to describe the change.
So pretty poor communication !

[Platypuss]

And I thought better of apparent thinking followers of the game that they can't grasp the fact that these changes were widely reported ahead of this season, on a wide variety of news outlets over a significant period of time.

Even if each club had broadcast a short video ahead of the first game of the season, you'd still get people like you complaining it wasn't enough and that what you really expected was a personal home visit from David Elleray.

[Ian Royal]

Platy I would expect better of you.
If thousands of people, most of whom are active followers of the game, some of whom are paid participants, didn't understand what was going on then something went wrong with communication.
My suggestion, that Ian seems to think is so outrageous, of putting the info in front of people at the game seems reasonable.
Apologies if you disagree, but your collection of websites doesn't address the fact that clearly the communication failed.

No.

As I've already said, most people ignore / forget / don't understand communications about things.

It's not FIFA's job to spoon feed to you. You (or Stranded) might think a youtube video would solve everything, but seriously, how many people would actually find / watch / take it in?

As for playing before the first game (or even few games) loads miss that / would still be in the concourse / not pay attention.

Anyway somewhat off track and I'm just going to be repeating myself, so I won't say more.