Renewed pessimism/interest

[Nuremberg Royal]

As I awake this morning and the sun shines through the windows my son reminds me about the performance of yesterday.
Im still in a state of bemusement over selection,tactics and general thinking.
Are we missing some forward/attacking coaching? ( Step forward Mr.Gilkes).
Is Stam unable to adapt to situations (2nd season syndrome)?
Should we be more patient ( cue general abuse about speed of play).

Ive come to the conclusion that its just not that exciting anymore....its only taken me a few months.....although perversely being dragged into a relegation battle may provide the stimulus thats needed to renew interest.
Heres to a good old dog fight at the bottom end of the table when eventually we survive comfortably all be it with a smaller average attendance.
FWIW Having supported Reading from around the globe for 50 years I still rank the McGhee times closely followed by Coppell as the most enjoyable football on view.

Ahhh Sunday retropsectives......

[Pandoras Box]

Interesting...
My story is this. My daughter and I are relatively new to Reading FC having started in 2011 and have been to virtually every home match since and probably about 10-12 aways per season. Now my wife has started going since just before Stam's tenure.
The missus is still eager to go every match, yet my daughter has lost the enthusiasm.
To the point.... yesterday, the daughter came and towards the end said 'you know, I know why mum is still happy to come because this is all she's seen, expects and knows no better. She's never been to the last minute 2-2 Chelsea, the late comeback and Pog winner v WBA, the ridiculous Arsenal 7-5 league cup and the total thrill of the 3-1 win at Southampton to gain promotion the year before. The Le Fondre/Roberts combination. She's never had that edge of the seat excitement. This is why I don't go so much now, because this is so dull and boring after those great times. They weren't even decent at the the play off final (and I have to agree).
Now many will say, what a plastic, she's was spoilt with previous success, back the team through thick and thin etc.
But they're missing the point. If all you have known is successful or exciting football, it's what you come to expect - it's the norm. Who cares about being crap 20 years ago on a wet Tuesday in some god forsaken northern town.
Its like when your granny goes 'you kids don't know you're born, we couldn't get a banana or meat during the war'. So what, it's not luck, it's expected in this day and age. If it was suddenly out of stock we would moan. No one would say, oh well we were spoilt when we did have some food, let's go hungry.
Rightly or wrongly that is today's mentality.

Customer satisfaction is a measurement of how much your expectations are exceeded and at the moment this style of football is not even reaching basic expectation - therefore the customers are not satisfied - and in this day and age they will be vocal about it or vote with their feet ( both of which are happening). Either up the game or suffer the criticism. The customer is king.
At the end of the day, if you have no interest in what your customers think or entertaining them, then what is the point in Reading FC. It's just a test vehicle for your own career advancement (or not as the case may be).

[bloody Volvo driver]

Quite simply one of the best posts I have read for a long time.

[CountryRoyal]

Don't think we should be going overboard. Yes last season's general play lacked a lot of excitement and was represented through the apathy around the fans, but you're talking about exciting individual games, emotions and feelings? Bristol City and Sheffield Wednesday away last season were up there for some of the best I've felt at the end of a football game, certainly in recent years.

TBH I'm easy though. I go to football and want us to win, and unlike a lot I couldn't give a shit if we play boring unexciting football. I wouldn't care if we had 1 shot on goal and won every game 1-0. That's just me though, I fully appreciate not everyone shares my view and that's fair enough.

That being said I also want to see us play at least to the level we are capable of, so enjoyment is relative. Getting a hard fought point when you're expected to lose etc, I even take solace in a really good performance which ends in defeat, providing we played well for the most part.

[Top Flight]

Don't think we should be going overboard. Yes last season's general play lacked a lot of excitement and was represented through the apathy around the fans, but you're talking about exciting individual games, emotions and feelings? Bristol City and Sheffield Wednesday away last season were up there for some of the best I've felt at the end of a football game, certainly in recent years.

TBH I'm easy though. I go to football and want us to win, and unlike a lot I couldn't give a shit if we play boring unexciting football. I wouldn't care if we had 1 shot on goal and won every game 1-0. That's just me though, I fully appreciate not everyone shares my view and that's fair enough.

That being said I also want to see us play at least to the level we are capable of, so enjoyment is relative. Getting a hard fought point when you're expected to lose etc, I even take solace in a really good performance which ends in defeat, providing we played well for the most part.

I enjoyed our win away at Birmingham City. The first half was boring, but the way we just dominated it, wore them down and then destroyed them when the game opened up in the second half was a joy to watch. I was jumping up and down all over the place.

But, no two games are the same. It takes two to tango for an entertaining game and most teams come to our place and sit deep and try to defend against us because they are scared of the mighty Royals. We have to learn how to penetrate such teams. Coppell knew how to keep banging on the door until the hinges broke. Stam needs to figure out how we can be more forceful in matches as well.

It's ok to lose the ball as long as we are aggressive enough to win it back quickly. That's how Coppell's side behaved. They took players on, the got to the byline, they put crosses into the box and then it was about the likes of Kitson, Sidwell, Doyle trying to get on the end of things and forcing their way on to the ball.

Stam's side doesn't take enough risks. They don't want to lose the ball at all. They just want total possession. They should try the riskier passes, they should try to take players on, they should try to get to the byline and pull the ball back, players should be busting a gut to get forward in numbers and try to get on the end of things. It is far too cautious. Yes we will lose the ball more. But we have Joey Van Den Berg, Liam Kelly, Edwards and Bacuna. We have McShane, Obita and Moore. Don't tell me these lads don't know how to win the ball back. They are as good defensively as anyone we have seen wear the hoops. We have the players. We just need to up the tempo and up the aggression.

[Snowball]

The RESULT is important to me, but this season I have had to make myself go to a few games, because, like others, I'm getting bored, genuinely bored. I find myself texting in play time (WTF?)

I think Stam, and those who say we have to learn the possession game for when (if) we go up, is/are wrong. Simple as that.

Is possession any longer correlated with winning points? I don't think so.

I miss high-tempo, high-pressure, thrills and spills.

Stam argues that the opposition gets tired out by our possession but does it? When we used to play two hard-running, powerful, bustling, shin-clipping, arm-bruising strikers like Hunt-Long, Doyle/Kitson, Doyle/Long, as well as getting more of a rush (as spectators) the defenders were worn down, tired out... hence lots of late goals.

The crowd was noisier, more excited. The overall atmosphere was better and YES, games were more enjoyable.


Say we had scraped that one 1-0 yesterday. Would we have gone home "thrilled"? No!

I wouldn't have been THRILLED if the 1-0 had taken us top.

==============================================

I also worry that the players are being stifled. They play as if strait-jacketed. Man for man this is as skilful a Reading side as I've ever seen, but they are often playing timidly, ultra-safe (boring of course) with Gunter the perfect example of wasted ability (it may also be his mentality in his case).

And every time we as spectators can see a forward ball is on (take a sodding risk for once) and Gunts checks back and rolls it to McShane I want to cry. These "small" disappointments accumulate. Most of us are now going to games NOT expecting a great game. How must that affect the atmosphere and support?

[Snowball]

Stam's side doesn't take enough risks. They don't want to lose the ball at all. They just want total possession. They should try the riskier passes, they should try to take players on, they should try to get to the byline and pull the ball back, players should be busting a gut to get forward in numbers and try to get on the end of things. It is far too cautious. Yes we will lose the ball more. But we have Joey Van Den Berg, Liam Kelly, Edwards and Bacuna. We have McShane, Obita and Moore. Don't tell me these lads don't know how to win the ball back. They are as good defensively as anyone we have seen wear the hoops. We have the players. We just need to up the tempo and up the aggression.

THIS!

[Nuremberg Royal]

I totally understand that different people get enjoyment from different scenarios (e.g. just winning or valiantly failing) but sadly for the moment we seem to be missing most parameters) .
Expectation levels were clearly raised after last season but even more so with the recent transfer activity.
All I hope for is continuous improvement but I think that curve upwards is unlikely to be smooth.
I just need to accept that but its so difficult after days like yesterday.

[Hound]

Stam's side doesn't take enough risks. They don't want to lose the ball at all. They just want total possession. They should try the riskier passes, they should try to take players on, they should try to get to the byline and pull the ball back, players should be busting a gut to get forward in numbers and try to get on the end of things. It is far too cautious. Yes we will lose the ball more. But we have Joey Van Den Berg, Liam Kelly, Edwards and Bacuna. We have McShane, Obita and Moore. Don't tell me these lads don't know how to win the ball back. They are as good defensively as anyone we have seen wear the hoops. We have the players. We just need to up the tempo and up the aggression.

THIS!

Yep 100%

Wonder if this is why we look better when go back 3. The mentality is we have more at the back in case of counter, so the likes of Obita and McCleary happier to take people on

[Jagermesiter1871]

Interesting...
My story is this. My daughter and I are relatively new to Reading FC having started in 2011 and have been to virtually every home match since and probably about 10-12 aways per season. Now my wife has started going since just before Stam's tenure.
The missus is still eager to go every match, yet my daughter has lost the enthusiasm.
To the point.... yesterday, the daughter came and towards the end said 'you know, I know why mum is still happy to come because this is all she's seen, expects and knows no better. She's never been to the last minute 2-2 Chelsea, the late comeback and Pog winner v WBA, the ridiculous Arsenal 7-5 league cup and the total thrill of the 3-1 win at Southampton to gain promotion the year before. The Le Fondre/Roberts combination. She's never had that edge of the seat excitement. This is why I don't go so much now, because this is so dull and boring after those great times. They weren't even decent at the the play off final (and I have to agree).
Now many will say, what a plastic, she's was spoilt with previous success, back the team through thick and thin etc.
But they're missing the point. If all you have known is successful or exciting football, it's what you come to expect - it's the norm. Who cares about being crap 20 years ago on a wet Tuesday in some god forsaken northern town.
Its like when your granny goes 'you kids don't know you're born, we couldn't get a banana or meat during the war'. So what, it's not luck, it's expected in this day and age. If it was suddenly out of stock we would moan. No one would say, oh well we were spoilt when we did have some food, let's go hungry.
Rightly or wrongly that is today's mentality.

Customer satisfaction is a measurement of how much your expectations are exceeded and at the moment this style of football is not even reaching basic expectation - therefore the customers are not satisfied - and in this day and age they will be vocal about it or vote with their feet ( both of which are happening). Either up the game or suffer the criticism. The customer is king.
At the end of the day, if you have no interest in what your customers think or entertaining them, then what is the point in Reading FC. It's just a test vehicle for your own career advancement (or not as the case may be).

TBF were we even that good in those seasons? Seemed to me we were more workman like than entertaining in our last Prem promotion.

Now if you said you'd started coming during the 05/06 season....

[Pandoras Box]

Good point from top flight regarding riskier passing. Around me, when someone tries a really incisive pass but it goes wrong, most people say 'oh, hard luck, good idea etc' . They don't go f...ing useless w@nker. They sincerely want to see good football.

Secondly, what I really don't get is that Stam played for Man Utd for three years when they won the premier three times, the FA Cup and the Champions League. You couldn't be more successful, but what I do know is they didn't play anything like this style of football.
So does he believe he has an invention that no one else knows about and is creating a style that will be more successful than the late 90s Man U?

[Lower West]

Secondly, what I really don't get is that Stam played for Man Utd for three years when they won the premier three times, the FA Cup and the Champions League. You couldn't be more successful, but what I do know is they didn't play anything like this style of football.
So does he believe he has an invention that no one else knows about and is creating a style that will be more successful than the late 90s Man U?

The great Man U team was born out of a group pf players that had played together from being kids. Years in the making. When you've played together several hundred times. Iinstinctive one touch passing and movement is inbred. Managers firstly need to work with what they've got at their disposal. Get the most out of them. From there develope a style of play.

[bracksroyal10]

Shocking yesterday and given our heartache at Wembley I thought our team had the character to bounce back and overcome adversity this season. No chance at the moment the players don't want it enough judging by the lack of desire off the ball.

BUT some of the boos/cheers over substitutions were pathetic .. I'm not a Gunter fan at all but for someone who genuinely tries every week and has served this club well over the years to be cheered off like that was disgusting.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion as paying fans but that crossed the line.

Yes Jaap has the European experience he's won the big trophies AS A PLAYER, but people would do well to remember what a remarkable achievement his first ever year as a manager was.

He is still learning himself he will find a plan B though have faith. Those booing stop being so short sighted and support your team we all want the same outcome at the end of the day ... success.

[peterroyal76]

Stam's side doesn't take enough risks. They don't want to lose the ball at all. They just want total possession. They should try the riskier passes, they should try to take players on, they should try to get to the byline and pull the ball back, players should be busting a gut to get forward in numbers and try to get on the end of things. It is far too cautious. Yes we will lose the ball more. But we have Joey Van Den Berg, Liam Kelly, Edwards and Bacuna. We have McShane, Obita and Moore. Don't tell me these lads don't know how to win the ball back. They are as good defensively as anyone we have seen wear the hoops. We have the players. We just need to up the tempo and up the aggression.

THIS!

The only time they do take risks are at the wrong times when they're casually passing around the back.

[Platypuss]

Good posts up there.

I'm all for patient play, but I'm seeing timidity, not patience.

[SCIAG]

. yesterday, the daughter came and towards the end said 'you know, I know why mum is still happy to come because this is all she's seen, expects and knows no better. She's never been to the last minute 2-2 Chelsea, the late comeback and Pog winner v WBA, the ridiculous Arsenal 7-5 league cup and the total thrill of the 3-1 win at Southampton to gain promotion the year before. The Le Fondre/Roberts combination. She's never had that edge of the seat excitement. This is why I don't go so much now, because this is so dull and boring after those great times. They weren't even decent at the the play off final (and I have to agree).

Did your daughter really say all that?

I believe you when you said you had a conversation about how it was better back in the day, but I don't think she used those words and all those rhetorical flourishes. Who says "this is all she's seen, expects, and knows no better"? This isn't natural speech. You remember roughly what your daughter said and you're filling in the exact words with what you wish she'd said to get maximum impact.

That's fine! We do it all the time. But it's the nostalgia goggles in action.

It's the same with the memories of days gone by. Two matches where we came back from 2-0 down with minutes to go. Do you remember the rest of the season? The stupid number of winning positions we squandered? The horrible matches against Villa and Wigan that doomed us to relegation and lost McDermott his job? We lost nearly every match that season.

The promotion year was obviously better... but even then, we were pretty dire until Roberts came in! For the first five months of the season, our plan was "give it to Kebe and hope that Alf gets it in the box". We have more points than we did at this stage of that season. Of course, the Roberts-Le Fondre partnership was great... except actually, they barely played together. Roberts nearly always started with Noel Hunt. Roberts and Le Fondre had a very memorable performance together for 20 minutes against Leeds, but Le Fondre didn't play against West Ham and they were only on the pitch together for the second goal against Southampton.

Your wife has seen Garath McCleary's best season, Yann Kermorgant going on the best scoring run of any striker since you started watching Reading, some amazing one-touch goals, our incredible performances in the play-off semi-finals, Ali Al-Habsi, and a team that actually does appeal to some people! There are always people complaining that our current style doesn't suit their tastes, they'd accept losing a few more games if it meant taking more risks/demonstrating some technique. Those people are usually loudest after a particularly poor performance.

Sure, we're in a bad run of form, there are things we could be doing better - but let's not over-react. The past isn't all last-gasp comebacks, and the present isn't all pathetic 1-0 losses (actually, we had a last-gasp comeback just yesterday!). Last season we finished third. We're definitely capable of doing that again this year. The start of the season usually feels quite purposeless, but things will liven up. Be patient, and accept the occasional boring match - it just makes the good times sweeter!

[Oilroyal]

Quite simply one of the best posts I have read for a long time.

+ bloody 1

[Cookie]

The RESULT is important to me, but this season I have had to make myself go to a few games, because, like others, I'm getting bored, genuinely bored. I find myself texting in play time (WTF?)

I think Stam, and those who say we have to learn the possession game for when (if) we go up, is/are wrong. Simple as that.

Is possession any longer correlated with winning points? I don't think so.

I miss high-tempo, high-pressure, thrills and spills.

Stam argues that the opposition gets tired out by our possession but does it? When we used to play two hard-running, powerful, bustling, shin-clipping, arm-bruising strikers like Hunt-Long, Doyle/Kitson, Doyle/Long, as well as getting more of a rush (as spectators) the defenders were worn down, tired out... hence lots of late goals.

The crowd was noisier, more excited. The overall atmosphere was better and YES, games were more enjoyable.


Say we had scraped that one 1-0 yesterday. Would we have gone home "thrilled"? No!

I wouldn't have been THRILLED if the 1-0 had taken us top.

==============================================

I also worry that the players are being stifled. They play as if strait-jacketed. Man for man this is as skilful a Reading side as I've ever seen, but they are often playing timidly, ultra-safe (boring of course) with Gunter the perfect example of wasted ability (it may also be his mentality in his case).

And every time we as spectators can see a forward ball is on (take a sodding risk for once) and Gunts checks back and rolls it to McShane I want to cry. These "small" disappointments accumulate. Most of us are now going to games NOT expecting a great game. How must that affect the atmosphere and support?

agreed

[royalp-we]

. yesterday, the daughter came and towards the end said 'you know, I know why mum is still happy to come because this is all she's seen, expects and knows no better. She's never been to the last minute 2-2 Chelsea, the late comeback and Pog winner v WBA, the ridiculous Arsenal 7-5 league cup and the total thrill of the 3-1 win at Southampton to gain promotion the year before. The Le Fondre/Roberts combination. She's never had that edge of the seat excitement. This is why I don't go so much now, because this is so dull and boring after those great times. They weren't even decent at the the play off final (and I have to agree).

Did your daughter really say all that?

I believe you when you said you had a conversation about how it was better back in the day, but I don't think she used those words and all those rhetorical flourishes. Who says "this is all she's seen, expects, and knows no better"? This isn't natural speech. You remember roughly what your daughter said and you're filling in the exact words with what you wish she'd said to get maximum impact.

That's fine! We do it all the time. But it's the nostalgia goggles in action.

It's the same with the memories of days gone by. Two matches where we came back from 2-0 down with minutes to go. Do you remember the rest of the season? The stupid number of winning positions we squandered? The horrible matches against Villa and Wigan that doomed us to relegation and lost McDermott his job? We lost nearly every match that season.

The promotion year was obviously better... but even then, we were pretty dire until Roberts came in! For the first five months of the season, our plan was "give it to Kebe and hope that Alf gets it in the box". We have more points than we did at this stage of that season. Of course, the Roberts-Le Fondre partnership was great... except actually, they barely played together. Roberts nearly always started with Noel Hunt. Roberts and Le Fondre had a very memorable performance together for 20 minutes against Leeds, but Le Fondre didn't play against West Ham and they were only on the pitch together for the second goal against Southampton.

Your wife has seen Garath McCleary's best season, Yann Kermorgant going on the best scoring run of any striker since you started watching Reading, some amazing one-touch goals, our incredible performances in the play-off semi-finals, Ali Al-Habsi, and a team that actually does appeal to some people! There are always people complaining that our current style doesn't suit their tastes, they'd accept losing a few more games if it meant taking more risks/demonstrating some technique. Those people are usually loudest after a particularly poor performance.

Sure, we're in a bad run of form, there are things we could be doing better - but let's not over-react. The past isn't all last-gasp comebacks, and the present isn't all pathetic 1-0 losses (actually, we had a last-gasp comeback just yesterday!). Last season we finished third. We're definitely capable of doing that again this year. The start of the season usually feels quite purposeless, but things will liven up. Be patient, and accept the occasional boring match - it just makes the good times sweeter!

I get where you're coming from, but I don't agree that start of the season feels purposeless. Crowds are dwindling and I can't remember there being such a split in opinion regarding our style of play. We were terrible for 80 mins yesterday. Forget about the past. The style of football we are playing is different to the past, it tedious, it's safe, works from time to time. It's not edge of your seat stuff.

I still think this style will come good should we manage to learn how to counter attack. But for any new fans going yesterday and seeing the rigid tactics, they would have us down as just being promoted, playing safe, not playoff finalists.

I think patience is a pre requisite to sign up for a member card

We are a patient bunch; and have been since Clarke was sacked. We booed at the style towards the start of Stams tenure, but that's it. Lets hope patience breeds success

[Oilroyal]

The RESULT is important to me, but this season I have had to make myself go to a few games, because, like others, I'm getting bored, genuinely bored. I find myself texting in play time (WTF?)

I think Stam, and those who say we have to learn the possession game for when (if) we go up, is/are wrong. Simple as that.

Is possession any longer correlated with winning points? I don't think so.

I miss high-tempo, high-pressure, thrills and spills.

Stam argues that the opposition gets tired out by our possession but does it? When we used to play two hard-running, powerful, bustling, shin-clipping, arm-bruising strikers like Hunt-Long, Doyle/Kitson, Doyle/Long, as well as getting more of a rush (as spectators) the defenders were worn down, tired out... hence lots of late goals.

The crowd was noisier, more excited. The overall atmosphere was better and YES, games were more enjoyable.


Say we had scraped that one 1-0 yesterday. Would we have gone home "thrilled"? No!

I wouldn't have been THRILLED if the 1-0 had taken us top.

==============================================

I also worry that the players are being stifled. They play as if strait-jacketed. Man for man this is as skilful a Reading side as I've ever seen, but they are often playing timidly, ultra-safe (boring of course) with Gunter the perfect example of wasted ability (it may also be his mentality in his case).

And every time we as spectators can see a forward ball is on (take a sodding risk for once) and Gunts checks back and rolls it to McShane I want to cry. These "small" disappointments accumulate. Most of us are now going to games NOT expecting a great game. How must that affect the atmosphere and support?

agreed

The RESULT is important to me, but this season I have had to make myself go to a few games, because, like others, I'm getting bored, genuinely bored. I find myself texting in play time (WTF?)

I think Stam, and those who say we have to learn the possession game for when (if) we go up, is/are wrong. Simple as that.

Is possession any longer correlated with winning points? I don't think so.

I miss high-tempo, high-pressure, thrills and spills.

Stam argues that the opposition gets tired out by our possession but does it? When we used to play two hard-running, powerful, bustling, shin-clipping, arm-bruising strikers like Hunt-Long, Doyle/Kitson, Doyle/Long, as well as getting more of a rush (as spectators) the defenders were worn down, tired out... hence lots of late goals.

The crowd was noisier, more excited. The overall atmosphere was better and YES, games were more enjoyable.


Say we had scraped that one 1-0 yesterday. Would we have gone home "thrilled"? No!

I wouldn't have been THRILLED if the 1-0 had taken us top.

==============================================

I also worry that the players are being stifled. They play as if strait-jacketed. Man for man this is as skilful a Reading side as I've ever seen, but they are often playing timidly, ultra-safe (boring of course) with Gunter the perfect example of wasted ability (it may also be his mentality in his case).

And every time we as spectators can see a forward ball is on (take a sodding risk for once) and Gunts checks back and rolls it to McShane I want to cry. These "small" disappointments accumulate. Most of us are now going to games NOT expecting a great game. How must that affect the atmosphere and support?

agreed

Death of the beautiful game but don't boo as it's no longer allowed within the stadium. And according to JaapStamFC we're not going to win anything. Although I beg to differ along with half the managers in this league who would rip your arm off for Jaap's job and the backing he's had.