BFTG - Hull

[Platypuss]

To be fair to Gunter there was no one making positive runs into space ahead of him all game, so who was he supposed to pass to?

[CountryRoyal]

I said several weeks ago after the QPR game that he won't score more than 15 goals for us this season and I stand by that.

15 goals is a great return for a striker who cost 3m in this era... How many strikers scored over 15 last season in the Championship?

10 scored 15 or over.

I agree it's a good return, i never said it wasn't. I just said I don't think Jon Dadi will attain that.

[royalp-we]

To be fair to Gunter there was no one making positive runs into space ahead of him all game, so who was he supposed to pass to?

I also said this. We would finally switch the ball to the right, then nobody would support him.
With Aluko dropping back to CM we essentially packed the centre of the pitch and did nothing with the ball

Gunter and McCleary should really be on the wavelength considering their time at the club, they should be switching when they are actually played on the right together. But Gunter is forced to stick in position not because of his own doing!

[LWJ]

Yesterday Stam set us up wrong from the start. Playing with no target man/striker at home is always going to cause us issues as the pressure would never be relieved. We set up like we should away from home, to counter attack and get in behind with pace (unfortunately Beerens has none, and GMac is clearly unfit). It didn't work.

We were awful in the first half, slow lethargic and with no drive. The only players for me who were trying to make something happen were Edwards and Aluko. Edwards made some great runs from deep and was never spotted. I'm starting to lose the faith in Kelly, I truly believe he slows us down, he doesn't seem to have any vision and nearly always passes to the first player; it's very rare he misses a player out, spreads the play and makes us attack with speed, something that JVDB actually does (when his passes are accurate).

With that being said, we were never out the game. A mark of a good team is to grind out results even when we aren't playing well. I think our biggest issue at the moment is confidence. No first half goals, missing sitters and our **** fans getting on the players backs when things aren't going right. Why do our fans feel like they deserve to be entertained before they back the team? Why are other fans from different teams able to lift their team up?

The only game we truly deserved to lose this year was QPR. We gifted Fulham a point by being unable to finish, and some sloppy passing. We gifted Bristol 3 points by being unable to finish and a sloppy clearance. We gifted Preston the points by Blackett being out jumped by somebody 12CM smaller than him. It's really NOT that bad. Keep in mind that Bristol went on to draw 3-3 with Wolves, and smash Derby 4-1, yet we made them look pretty average.

We have suffered heavily with injuries, Stam has tinkled with the team a lot this year already, how many times out of choice and how many times due to injuries?

Second half saw Stam make some substitutions, which ultimately worked. Obita for Blackett was the right sub, Blackett really is not a Championship player - as someone else said he lacks concentration. To me, he is just so casual with the ball. Ilori for Kelly seemed strange at the time but was obviously planned for a formation change. It allowed JVDB to push forward which sped up our pace of play, there is a reason we looked better when this happened... Gunter for JonDadi was late, it should have happened sooner but again it allowed Gmac to drop back at RWB and gave us a vocal point up top. It showed that Stam planned his previous sub to allow this change.

Ratings for me:
Mannone - 6 Did what he needed to, not much chance with the goal from memory.
Gunter - 4 Poor, the lad has so much fitness yet you rarely see him utilise it.
Moore - 6 Makes some cracking challenges at times, I wonder whether he makes these because his positioning isn't always the best.
McShane - 6 Would like to see him become more of a threat from set pieces we really don't threaten enough there.
Blackett - 2 Absolutely gutted Obita got injured at the end - this bloke shocks me that he managed to last so long at Man Utd.

Beerens - 4 Really ineffective after his great cameo against Brentford. Maybe the best use is as an impact sub?
Kelly - 4 Slow passing, no pace to beat a man, weak in the challenge, not seeing the effectiveness that he had last year.
Edwards - 6 Made some great unnoticed runs first half, brings a bit of bite and pace (relatively) to the midfield.
JVDB - 6 Sloppy in the first half, drove the team forward in the second. Really is a workhorse for the team.
Gmac - 4 offered us nothing in the first half, can't beat a man, can't put a ball in the box - only scoring a 4 as did okay as a RWB.

Aluko - 6 Worked tirelessly in the first half to drop back and get balls off our midfield, good bits of skill - lacking someone else to work off of. Maybe Swift would be the answer?

JDadi - Pleased for the lad, had a dominating performance at Brum which was only witnessed by 900 of us. Bristol City he had a shocker in front of goal which, combined with his stats from last year meant that all our enlightened fans instantly wrote him off. Hopefully he can push on from here.

[windermereROYAL]

Yesterday Stam set us up wrong from the start. Playing with no target man/striker at home is always going to cause us issues as the pressure would never be relieved. We set up like we should away from home, to counter attack and get in behind with pace (unfortunately Beerens has none, and GMac is clearly unfit). It didn't work.

We were awful in the first half, slow lethargic and with no drive. The only players for me who were trying to make something happen were Edwards and Aluko. Edwards made some great runs from deep and was never spotted. I'm starting to lose the faith in Kelly, I truly believe he slows us down, he doesn't seem to have any vision and nearly always passes to the first player; it's very rare he misses a player out, spreads the play and makes us attack with speed, something that JVDB actually does (when his passes are accurate).

With that being said, we were never out the game. A mark of a good team is to grind out results even when we aren't playing well. I think our biggest issue at the moment is confidence. No first half goals, missing sitters and our **** fans getting on the players backs when things aren't going right. Why do our fans feel like they deserve to be entertained before they back the team? Why are other fans from different teams able to lift their team up?

The only game we truly deserved to lose this year was QPR. We gifted Fulham a point by being unable to finish, and some sloppy passing. We gifted Bristol 3 points by being unable to finish and a sloppy clearance. We gifted Preston the points by Blackett being out jumped by somebody 12CM smaller than him. It's really NOT that bad. Keep in mind that Bristol went on to draw 3-3 with Wolves, and smash Derby 4-1, yet we made them look pretty average.

We have suffered heavily with injuries, Stam has tinkled with the team a lot this year already, how many times out of choice and how many times due to injuries?

Second half saw Stam make some substitutions, which ultimately worked. Obita for Blackett was the right sub, Blackett really is not a Championship player - as someone else said he lacks concentration. To me, he is just so casual with the ball. Ilori for Kelly seemed strange at the time but was obviously planned for a formation change. It allowed JVDB to push forward which sped up our pace of play, there is a reason we looked better when this happened... Gunter for JonDadi was late, it should have happened sooner but again it allowed Gmac to drop back at RWB and gave us a vocal point up top. It showed that Stam planned his previous sub to allow this change.

Ratings for me:
Mannone - 6 Did what he needed to, not much chance with the goal from memory.
Gunter - 4 Poor, the lad has so much fitness yet you rarely see him utilise it.
Moore - 6 Makes some cracking challenges at times, I wonder whether he makes these because his positioning isn't always the best.
McShane - 6 Would like to see him become more of a threat from set pieces we really don't threaten enough there.
Blackett - 2 Absolutely gutted Obita got injured at the end - this bloke shocks me that he managed to last so long at Man Utd.

Beerens - 4 Really ineffective after his great cameo against Brentford. Maybe the best use is as an impact sub?
Kelly - 4 Slow passing, no pace to beat a man, weak in the challenge, not seeing the effectiveness that he had last year.
Edwards - 6 Made some great unnoticed runs first half, brings a bit of bite and pace (relatively) to the midfield.
JVDB - 6 Sloppy in the first half, drove the team forward in the second. Really is a workhorse for the team.
Gmac - 4 offered us nothing in the first half, can't beat a man, can't put a ball in the box - only scoring a 4 as did okay as a RWB.

Aluko - 6 Worked tirelessly in the first half to drop back and get balls off our midfield, good bits of skill - lacking someone else to work off of. Maybe Swift would be the answer?

JDadi - Pleased for the lad, had a dominating performance at Brum which was only witnessed by 900 of us. Bristol City he had a shocker in front of goal which, combined with his stats from last year meant that all our enlightened fans instantly wrote him off. Hopefully he can push on from here.

Word perfect. exactly how I saw it, especially the Kelly statements.

[Top Flight]

Tiago was class when he came on.

[royalsroyalsroyals92]

Was a cracking finish too, very precise. Might go down as a "fluke" but certainly not a finish representative of his goal scoring record.

I don't really understand the criticism of him. It's all prejudged based on his record at Wolves last season and not landing the signing people wanted. Absolutely he had a terrible finishing day against Brizzle. But really it was only two (terrible) efforts. It's not like he's gone 5 - 10 games without scoring. He's got 2 in 5 appearances. His longest dry spell with us is 2 league, 3 league and cup. It's not a bad a record. He's actually played well, even against Bristol.

I like a lot of his all round play but his finishing is atrocious, which is what makes the fact hes scored 2 for us already all the more impressive. I can't remember the last Reading striker have such a bad technique when it comes to striking the ball. It's representative of that big kid at school who isn't very good but wants to play striker.

I like Bod and his style, energy and all round play. But he doesn't exactly instill much confidence in front of goal. Does his past precede him? Potentially, if not probably. That doesn't change the fact he has had a multitude of guilt edged opportunities this season where there are plenty of strikers who would have finished. I'm not writing him off, and I hope that this season he manages to completely evolve into a goal scoring machine, but just because he's scored 2 goals doesn't mean I'm going to put my mortgage (if i had one) on it. I said several weeks ago after the QPR game that he won't score more than 15 goals for us this season and I stand by that.

Reminds me a lot of Gregorz Rasiak. But even he got 9 in 30 which isn't too terrible. JDB will come good and be important over the next few months

[Hound]

I agree with quite a bit of that LWJ, but not all

Harsh on Blackett though - he has looked good this year and was decent first half (good through ball set up that chance as well). He is a cb playing lb though and it shows. He is a good player imo

JVDB wasn't good. When he plays well he adds bite and pace but he was awful yesterday, one decent shot aside. Aluko clearly has talent and maybe was told to play CM but he was rubbish yesterday - not what we wanted from him at all. He should be playing on the last man.

[Sutekh]

To be fair to Gunter there was no one making positive runs into space ahead of him all game, so who was he supposed to pass to?

Exactly. He had the ball numerous times on the right and where was the right sided forward? **** alone knows, could have been in his garage changing the oil on his hummer for all the good the good he was doing. However this does seem to be something weird about yesterday's tactics with the quite ridiculous "let's choose to play without a striker" option being followed and seemingly Reading ended up with three wingers all looking to be in the middle whereas usually there is a bit of width in front of Chris Gunter when he gets the ball rather than 30 seconds later.

And Chris had to be subbed really after the ludicrous Ilori substitution.

[windermereROYAL]

To be fair to Gunter there was no one making positive runs into space ahead of him all game, so who was he supposed to pass to?

Exactly. He had the ball numerous times on the right and where was the right sided forward? **** alone knows, could have been in his garage changing the oil on his hummer for all the good the good he was doing. However this does seem to be something weird about yesterday's tactics with the quite ridiculous "let's choose to play without a striker" option being followed and seemingly Reading ended up with three wingers all looking to be in the middle whereas usually there is a bit of width in front of Chris Gunter when he gets the ball rather than 30 seconds later.

And Chris had to be subbed really after the ludicrous Ilori substitution.

I need a detailed explanation why the Ilori substitution was ludicrous. Kelly was poor yesterday, too slow. 10 yard passes going nowhere. Ilori was bought on to add a bit of pace and break up Hulls quick breaks.

[Hound]

It wasn't ludicrous, it worked, but it was always going to get a reaction from the crowd

Personally would have taken VDB off and moved Kelly forward but can understand why he was taken off.

Ilori as pointed out was very good when he came on. Good at the back and got a lot of attacks started with quick accurate balls out to Obita

[genome]

I'm fairly sure if he had taken off Gunter for Ilori and Kelly for Bodvarsson no one would have batted an eyelid

But at the time, in the heat of the moment whilst chasing the game, the Kelly sub appeared absolutely mind boggling.

Massive boos weren't necessary but a general exclamation of WTFness was justified, at the time

[Snowflake Royal]

To be fair to Gunter there was no one making positive runs into space ahead of him all game, so who was he supposed to pass to?

This was certainly true most if not all the time. But as I said earlier, there were times he was waving away passes when in space. And it's not like he makes the passes even when the movement is there.

Everything about the way he plays is over cautious. Pass back rather than risk an interception. Stand off rather than risk being beaten. Hopeful cross into an area rather than try to pick someone out.

He never takes responsibility if he can avoid it, he always passes it off to someone else.

[windermereROYAL]

I believe that players are frightened of trying anything through fear of being lambasted by the idiots that boo.

[RG7Fan]

To be fair to Gunter there was no one making positive runs into space ahead of him all game, so who was he supposed to pass to?

This was certainly true most if not all the time. But as I said earlier, there were times he was waving away passes when in space. And it's not like he makes the passes even when the movement is there.

Everything about the way he plays is over cautious. Pass back rather than risk an interception. Stand off rather than risk being beaten. Hopeful cross into an area rather than try to pick someone out.

He never takes responsibility if he can avoid it, he always passes it off to someone else.

And if he is playing as a wingback surely he should have the ability and confidence to run at someone, or run down the line and cross a ball in. He was lacking in that yesterday, it was his poorest match for a long time.

[OLLIE KEARNS]

Ah the life of a football manager ! Given the first half performance of JDB at Brentford you couldn't really argue with him being dropped and McCleary being given a go down the middle. Unfortunately McCleary is not the player of old and to make matters worse he doesn't seem to understand the offside law. So many times yesterday he was either caught offside or made a run too early forcing the player in possession to delay the forward pass. Next, he takes Kelly off to much derision but the reality is that Kelly hasn't played that well so far this season. Last season he regularly influenced games in the final third (run and cross at Derby, goal at Bristol etc) but this season he is too often happy to have the ball in a deep position, hold it for too long and then play a sideways / backwards pass. Looks nice and tidy but doesn't influence the game in a positive manner.
The more worrying thing yesterday was the lack of energy and drive in the team. Just before half time we had a decent little spell, won a corner and got the crowd going. Kelly then slowly walks to collect the ball, slowly walks to the corner flag and eventually belts the corner straight to the first man. All momentum immediately lost and crowd fall silent again.
Add to this the mystery of the Hogwood "Bermuda triangle" which has recently seen Barrow, Mendes and Bacuna disappear and its a tough time for the manager.
The one tactical area I would be critical of yesterday is that if you play 5 at the back at home then the wing backs have to be getting forward and getting crosses in and that didn't happen. So maybe Obita should have started and I wouldn't mind seeing McCleary play that role on the right hand side.
In fairness to Stam he has tweaked things and made the right adjustments in the past. He certainly mixed things up after Xmas last year in terms of playing long from time to time and no doubt he won't be happy with that performance. The good thing with the Championship is games come thick and fast and it may all be forgotten come Tuesday night. Hopefully !

[3points]

leaving Kelly as the deepest of the midfielders.

Too lightweight to act as the defensive cover.

But we had three centre backs behind him and here wasn't much coming from Hull, and we were losing. He would have been adequate for 20-25 minutes in the context of yesterday's game.

[finchroyal]

I believe that players are frightened of trying anything through fear of being lambasted by the idiots that boo.

Players dont give a toss what the majority of fans think. booing from many people who would struggle to kick a ball, is water of a ducks back for them.

[leon]

So yesterday's performance was actually a tactical masterclass?

Ok right you are.

[RG7Fan]

leaving Kelly as the deepest of the midfielders.

Too lightweight to act as the defensive cover.

But we had three centre backs behind him and here wasn't much coming from Hull, and we were losing. He would have been adequate for 20-25 minutes in the context of yesterday's game.

And we'd have had another sub we could have made ...