Gunter

[TBM]

"Reading midfielder David Edwards won the media choice award."

[marlowuk]

So basically, he appears to play better for Wales because (a) Wales have better players than us - anybody who doesn't think so is deluded, and (b) they have a plan where everybody knows exactly how everybody else is going to play. We can't do anything about (a), but we should be able to do something about (b), and as far as I can see, we haven't had that since Coppell. Incidentally, I think if Gunter was transplanted into the 106 team, but played exactly the way he does now, he would be much better regarded.

I agree with this. Gunter seems to play a far more attacking game for Wales and that must be because he is under orders to play that way. It certainly makes him a more effective player, hence the award!!

[Hound]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41469355

Just for you Ian

[bobby1413]

Favourite comment on Twitter:

[Winston Biscuit]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41469355

he is a flag waving patriotic type, fans cream themselves over that sort of thing.

[Old Man Andrews]

Favourite comment on Twitter:

People like him shouldn't be allowed phones, the guy is a loon.

Gunter is a perfectly adequate Championship RB who is far more suited to international football. He is also given more freedom to express himself in a Wales shirt that he should be given in a Reading shirt too imo.

[Hound]

Favourite comment on Twitter:

yeah. And then you realise they are above England in the rankings and just reached the semi of a major tournament

I don't think anyone could call Wales bad at the moment

[bobby1413]

Favourite comment on Twitter:

yeah. And then you realise they are above England in the rankings and just reached the semi of a major tournament

I don't think anyone could call Wales bad at the moment

It's the sort of people on Twitter who take great pleasure in posting compilation videos of Gunter's mistakes with comments of... "Chris Gunter... why he should be dropped", etc...

It's such a cheap argument. As others have said there are many other players who are performing worse but for some reason just aren't as (unfairly) picked on.

[muirinho]

Favourite comment on Twitter:

yeah. And then you realise they are above England in the rankings and just reached the semi of a major tournament

I don't think anyone could call Wales bad at the moment

It's the sort of people on Twitter who take great pleasure in posting compilation videos of Gunter's mistakes with comments of... "Chris Gunter... why he should be dropped", etc...

It's such a cheap argument. As others have said there are many other players who are performing worse but for some reason just aren't as (unfairly) picked on.

I saw that compilation video. It amused me as it went back ages, but was actually very short. You could get a compilation of Messi messing up if you go back 5 years.

Got to admit I was a bit surprised by the news - maybe they just got bored of giving it to Gareth Bale every year. And Bale hasn't been brilliant for them this last year. Gunter got the Media award last year, and if he was going to win one of the awards this year, I'd have thought Fans player of the year was more likely.

But very funny in the context of the general moaning about him on here.

[Crotts]

Favourite comment on Twitter:

yeah. And then you realise they are above England in the rankings and just reached the semi of a major tournament

I don't think anyone could call Wales bad at the moment

Wales are better than England so maybe the Welsh right back is worth more than the English right back Kyle Walker who went for £50m. Perhaps we are sitting on the key financial asset to Reading's future success !!!

[leon]

Favourite comment on Twitter:

yeah. And then you realise they are above England in the rankings and just reached the semi of a major tournament

I don't think anyone could call Wales bad at the moment

It's the sort of people on Twitter who take great pleasure in posting compilation videos of Gunter's mistakes with comments of... "Chris Gunter... why he should be dropped", etc...

It's such a cheap argument. As others have said there are many other players who are performing worse but for some reason just aren't as (unfairly) picked on.

football fans on social media are gimps - shock!

[Snowball]

football fans on social media are gimps - shock!

but...

[biff]

Gunter is the professional extrapolation of me at University. In the team because I could run as fullback, and never missed the train to matches. Wholly ineffectual at what the team needed to win, but at least he's always there...

[russyb]

I couldn't agree more that England have massively under achieved over the years but if Gunter is the best right back Wales has to offer, remove Bale and you've got a national team that would struggle in the Championship.

Well Bobbs has pointed out a few flaws in your argument.

I'd say that it's not about the individuals it's about how they play as a team. And with football, the team is EVERYTHING. That's why Wales, Iceland, Denmark, Portugal etc etc can do well with a limited team and England and Netherlands (the two most underperforming sides ever?) fail every time.

Anyway Gunter works well in the Wales team that has done OK, so what is it that he doesn't do for Reading. I am struggling to pick him out as one of the worst performers. Afterall - he gets fcuk all protection from the midfield.

It's not so much what he doesn't do for Reading, it's what Reading doesn't do for him.
People mention about him not attacking "like he used to", or "like he does for Wales". Well that's because he spends half the game hanging about on the half way line, trying to stay onside, and waiting for somebody to chuck in a pass ahead of him, for him to run onto and cross. Find his heatmap on whoscored and I'll guarantee, he's in miles of space for lots of the game, and it's not being made use of.

Either the pass is behind him, or it's WAY in front, and he can't get there, or it's directly to him, but after waiting long enough for his opposite number to come and mark him. And since he's never been able to take on his man and beat him, that means he's going to have to pass again. He's also reasonably decent with one-two's - but again, if McCleary isn't playing, who's he going to have those with? No championship fullback's crosses are perfect but when he does cross, there's nobody there, so it wouldn't matter if they were amazing. Also, he's more inclined to overhit than underhit - why is the winger or full back on the other side not running in on the far side of the penalty area?

And as you've already mentioned - defensively, he's often horribly exposed by his midfielders (and this season, also by McShane being very wobbly alongside him).

So basically, he appears to play better for Wales because (a) Wales have better players than us - anybody who doesn't think so is deluded, and (b) they have a plan where everybody knows exactly how everybody else is going to play. We can't do anything about (a), but we should be able to do something about (b), and as far as I can see, we haven't had that since Coppell. Incidentally, I think if Gunter was transplanted into the 106 team, but played exactly the way he does now, he would be much better regarded.

All of our players have their faults. None of them can win a game singlehandedly. You could do a similar sort of analysis for any of them - they'd be better if their colleagues played to their strengths, or the formation was tweaked to suit them etc. It's not earth-shattering analysis

But yeah, he seems to catch way more than stick than he deserves, while other players get away with murder in comparison.

Finally someone that actually understands what Gunter has to put up with, totally agree with the above. One of the biggest issues for Gunter when he has the ball and is looking to play it forward is there is no movement from the midfield or wingers to receive a forward pass, the chance is then gone, gunter plays it back safely, everyone boos him. The fault 70 per cent of the time is not Gunter playing it backwards it is either the system or the players movement in front of him that is not good enough. I do agree though that he should take a risk a bit more and take it pass his man or overlap with a winger a bit more often and be more attacking.

[Snowflake Royal]

Well Bobbs has pointed out a few flaws in your argument.

I'd say that it's not about the individuals it's about how they play as a team. And with football, the team is EVERYTHING. That's why Wales, Iceland, Denmark, Portugal etc etc can do well with a limited team and England and Netherlands (the two most underperforming sides ever?) fail every time.

Anyway Gunter works well in the Wales team that has done OK, so what is it that he doesn't do for Reading. I am struggling to pick him out as one of the worst performers. Afterall - he gets fcuk all protection from the midfield.

It's not so much what he doesn't do for Reading, it's what Reading doesn't do for him.
People mention about him not attacking "like he used to", or "like he does for Wales". Well that's because he spends half the game hanging about on the half way line, trying to stay onside, and waiting for somebody to chuck in a pass ahead of him, for him to run onto and cross. Find his heatmap on whoscored and I'll guarantee, he's in miles of space for lots of the game, and it's not being made use of.

Either the pass is behind him, or it's WAY in front, and he can't get there, or it's directly to him, but after waiting long enough for his opposite number to come and mark him. And since he's never been able to take on his man and beat him, that means he's going to have to pass again. He's also reasonably decent with one-two's - but again, if McCleary isn't playing, who's he going to have those with? No championship fullback's crosses are perfect but when he does cross, there's nobody there, so it wouldn't matter if they were amazing. Also, he's more inclined to overhit than underhit - why is the winger or full back on the other side not running in on the far side of the penalty area?

And as you've already mentioned - defensively, he's often horribly exposed by his midfielders (and this season, also by McShane being very wobbly alongside him).

So basically, he appears to play better for Wales because (a) Wales have better players than us - anybody who doesn't think so is deluded, and (b) they have a plan where everybody knows exactly how everybody else is going to play. We can't do anything about (a), but we should be able to do something about (b), and as far as I can see, we haven't had that since Coppell. Incidentally, I think if Gunter was transplanted into the 106 team, but played exactly the way he does now, he would be much better regarded.

All of our players have their faults. None of them can win a game singlehandedly. You could do a similar sort of analysis for any of them - they'd be better if their colleagues played to their strengths, or the formation was tweaked to suit them etc. It's not earth-shattering analysis

But yeah, he seems to catch way more than stick than he deserves, while other players get away with murder in comparison.

Finally someone that actually understands what Gunter has to put up with, totally agree with the above. One of the biggest issues for Gunter when he has the ball and is looking to play it forward is there is no movement from the midfield or wingers to receive a forward pass, the chance is then gone, gunter plays it back safely, everyone boos him. The fault 70 per cent of the time is not Gunter playing it backwards it is either the system or the players movement in front of him that is not good enough. I do agree though that he should take a risk a bit more and take it pass his man or overlap with a winger a bit more often and be more attacking.

Certainly a factor, but 70% is generous. Also, bear in mind that given his first touch is usually to open up the backwards ball he's not exactly encouraging his teammates to show for a positive pass. And if you're right, when people do show you take the pass, not ignore it and go back 30% of the time. That's reinforcing the problem.

He could always look to the diagonal into the edge of the box.

Gunter was best when he didn't have to think or be creative and could just mindlessly play a safe, low percentage low risk long pass up the wing to McCleary.

Gunter does exactly what he has to do to take the least responsibility with the least chance of catastrophic failure for him on the pitch. That's not what we need.

Compare to Blackett, who makes more catastrophic errors in possession, but at least he tries to make things happen and be positive. And that's reflected in his better passing and crossing stats. You won't see any fans creaming themselves over him the way they do Gunter though. And he's been at (partial) fault for fewer goals this season than Gunter too.

[WoodleyRoyal]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41469355

he is a flag waving patriotic type, fans cream themselves over that sort of thing.

True, but who actually votes on this award? I see Joe Allen got the fans player of the year, and Bale got players player of the year. Is it the Welsh FA who vote/award this accolade?

[bobby1413]

Gunter does exactly what he has to do to take the least responsibility with the least chance of catastrophic failure for him on the pitch. That's not what we need.

Compare to Blackett, who makes more catastrophic errors in possession, but at least he tries to make things happen and be positive. And that's reflected in his better passing and crossing stats. You won't see any fans creaming themselves over him the way they do Gunter though. And he's been at (partial) fault for fewer goals this season than Gunter too.

Don't really get this. Some of the best players are those that just do the simple things, and not try to take risks, be a one man hero, or do things they know they can't do.

Blackett's got many issues, not just the fact he often looks confused, lost, out of depth and asleep. You say "at least he tries to make things happen and be positive". Not sure that's working for him in anyway.

I'd say - at least Gunter does what he feels he can do and that is to pass to another player which is a straight forward pass, nothing spectacular, and just gets on.

I'd rather that than players trying to run with the ball and make glory passes, only to continually lose it.

[genome]

Blackett's not a natural full-back, so unfair comparison IMO

[Old Boy Blue]

Congratulations Chris. Lets hope Cardiff or Swansea will come in for him now!

[Tilehurstsouthbank]

Congratulations Chris. Lets hope Cardiff or Swansea will come in for him now!

Way to make your first post a good one...