BFTG - Middlesbrough

[3points]

The midfield is a big problem. I wasn't a massive Danny Williams fan but we are really missing his drive and energy and commitment. I thought Bacuna showed some signs of filling that role but seems to be injured again. Swift and Kelly looked scared to make mistakes, taking easy options. Joey can be great, but it's about one game in four only.

Our full backs concern me as well. Because we lack width in midfield by just playing a three in there, they get caught betwixed and between. Do they surge forward or do they defend? Gunter again was no where near Assombalonga for their second. Moore berated him for it, as did Stam. Watching the replay he stood watching him when the striker was behind McShane (who is also partly to blame for not being tighter). Moore' position was also poor, and I don't think there was a lot Blackett could do.

There's a good case to going back to a more traditional 4 in midfield with perhaps Swift or Clement playing in the 10 role behind a centre forward. With teams generally sitting pretty deep, being outnumbered in midfield is not necessarily a problem (different away from home).

My dad came to his one game a season (last game was Brighton last season). He thought we played some decent football, but at too slow a pace. He also said the ref gave us nothing and the ball didn't bounce our way much either. It's amazing what a little bit of luck did for us last year as well.

[Berry]

I'm in the What can we do group also.....Surely Stam can change tactics, OK it undermines his philosophy but with current injuries it would be interesting, go to a standard 4-4-2....We have 1 striker at least and maybe Swift alongside with Kelly just behind as an attacking Midfielder with a job to create, this system at moment doesn't work for many reasons, for me if Stam adapted at least the fans would understand and back him but this constant team shape at present is not yielding anything

[Ascotexgunner]

The Stamites keep going on about injuries. With the exception of the lad up front....Smith....who did a brilliant job and worked hard and got rubbish service, every single one of of those starting 11 is a regularlish starter. They make it sound as if we are down to the bare bones and throwing in first timers. Our squad has something like 56 players in it. Listening to the phone in on the way home Mick Gooding made the point that 56 should be enough. Maybe Stam doesn't know his best 11.......if that is the case then we have big problems and we need someone in there who can work out what we can do.
We created little or nothing yesterday and to add to that we have players who clearly are capable of taking on and beating defenders who seem to have stopped taking people on. Beerens has not become a bad player yet he comes forward, he stops, turns and passes backwards.....all our widemen do it......? why is that? Look at videos of him and the likes of Barrow.....they look shadows of we have seen of them. The buck stops with the manager. The team confidence looks so shot now if we don't get a new manager in soon we may well be in big trouble and I don't want to see us head in that direction, because if we did go down coming back will be even harder.

[NewCorkSeth]

The Stamites keep going on about injuries. With the exception of the lad up front....Smith....who did a brilliant job and worked hard and got rubbish service, every single one of of those starting 11 is a regularlish starter. They make it sound as if we are down to the bare bones and throwing in first timers. Our squad has something like 56 players in it. Listening to the phone in on the way home Mick Gooding made the point that 56 should be enough. Maybe Stam doesn't know his best 11.......if that is the case then we have big problems and we need someone in there who can work out what we can do.
We created little or nothing yesterday and to add to that we have players who clearly are capable of taking on and beating defenders who seem to have stopped taking people on. Beerens has not become a bad player yet he comes forward, he stops, turns and passes backwards.....all our widemen do it......? why is that? Look at videos of him and the likes of Barrow.....they look shadows of we have seen of them. The buck stops with the manager. The team confidence looks so shot now if we don't get a new manager in soon we may well be in big trouble and I don't want to see us head in that direction, because if we did go down coming back will be even harder.

28 first team players by my memory. I think, as I have said previously, injuries are a huge issue but not something that should result in the dire tactical performances we have been seeing. Most of our goals and best chances created have come from individual moments of brilliance rather than tactical precision.
With certain injuries, if they never happened, we would be several points better off but more importantly our performances would have been better. Obita being fit and able would have majorly changed a lot of our performances as our left flank has been particularly susceptible to counter attacks and Blackett does not have natural defensive positioning on the wing. Kermie obviously would have made a huge difference. We were and are very good at controlling the ball in midfield and getting that ball up or across the wings quite quickly. Where we have struggled is creating chances from the wings and that is because without Yann we have not had a natural target man to aim for. Theres a reason that the highest percentage of our goals have come from through balls up the centre.

In short: Injuries can be blamed for our results not our performances.

[bcubed]

This thread and some of the opinions really do sum up modern football fans for me.

Many on here and in the stands jizzed themselves when JS was announced, that Reading could attract a big named manager, capable of doing deals and possibly attracting players, sharing his knowledge.

If I recall correctly, his first season we just wanted to stabalise and push towards the top 6 of the table. Instead he broke every pundit (and every fan's) prediction by getting us all the way to the final. It wasn't the most exciting football but we exceed all expectations.

We're now 14 games in, have beaten, Villa, Birmingham and Leeds. We have drawn three and lost 7. We have quite a few key players injured, with Yann only just coming back now. We aren't even a 3'rd of the way into the season and people want him sacked. It's a complete over reaction.

I asked about two weeks ago, what the point in sacking him is. And as I said earlier in this thread, the pattern for almost EVERY club who does this (Birmingham, Leicester, Palace, Leeds, Sunderland, Forest) is the same. Manager gets sacked and new guy comes in. He ends up spunking about £5-10m on players and then 12 months later he gets sacked again... and repeat.

What Reading have going for them is about 1000x more than some other clubs. We have a group of players who have been together for a little while now and my whole thought process is we are building something. Things like this don't happen overnight.

I don't enjoy many of the games, I haven't for years. Adkins, Clarke, McDermott and now Stam. How many more managers do you want to try out? How many MORE players do you want to sign?

Just stick with what we have, give him the time and let him change things over the coming transfer windows and seasons.

Even if it means relegation?!

[Platypuss]

Stamites

[Denver Royal]

Beerens has not become a bad player yet he comes forward, he stops, turns and passes backwards.....all our widemen do it.....Why is that?

If you watch most any Premier League game these days its a very common occurrence.

And, you'll also see plenty of (gasp!)...playing it back and forth across the back four from side to side.

Have you seen Man Yoo play this season? What about Chelsea last season? Or even Leicester the season before that? Winning the Premier League is not necessarily associated with playing 'attractive' footy these days. Some fans have recognized and adjusted to that, and some haven't. (And yes, those that haven't, are 'paying good money and yet aren't being 'entertained'...like in a 'movie'.)

So, when drawing up a list of potential replacements for Stam - (which I notice not too many have done) - it had better take on board the proviso... 'New manager must be one that is certain to play attractive footy, as well as getting us promoted and/or at least getting us Top 6 every year'. (Oh, and then somehow playing 'attractive footy' in the PL too once we get there...unlike quite a lot of the teams already there.)

If we stay with Stam and we stay up this season, and then make a strong run next season, will that be acceptable to most folk in here? Two playoff runs in three seasons?

[Snowflake Royal]

The Stamites keep going on about injuries. With the exception of the lad up front....Smith....who did a brilliant job and worked hard and got rubbish service, every single one of of those starting 11 is a regularlish starter. They make it sound as if we are down to the bare bones and throwing in first timers. Our squad has something like 56 players in it. Listening to the phone in on the way home Mick Gooding made the point that 56 should be enough. Maybe Stam doesn't know his best 11.......if that is the case then we have big problems and we need someone in there who can work out what we can do.
We created little or nothing yesterday and to add to that we have players who clearly are capable of taking on and beating defenders who seem to have stopped taking people on. Beerens has not become a bad player yet he comes forward, he stops, turns and passes backwards.....all our widemen do it......? why is that? Look at videos of him and the likes of Barrow.....they look shadows of we have seen of them. The buck stops with the manager. The team confidence looks so shot now if we don't get a new manager in soon we may well be in big trouble and I don't want to see us head in that direction, because if we did go down coming back will be even harder.

So far this season, we've had to deal with injuries (or suspensions) of a game or more to:
Watson, McShane, Ilori, Obita, Evans, Swift, Bacuna, McCleary, Barrow, Harriott, Mendes, Bodvarsson and Kermorgant. That's virtually a full matchday squad missing at one point or another. And I'm bound to have forgotten someone.

The point is we are down to the bare bones in certain parts of the field because we're short there anyway and the injuries have hit there too. We've got one and a half fit full backs (and that's been the case most of the games) and at times no fit senior strikers.

On top of that is the point that we can't put out a settled side because people keep picking up little injuries that see them out for the odd game.

[Snowflake Royal]

This thread and some of the opinions really do sum up modern football fans for me.

Many on here and in the stands jizzed themselves when JS was announced, that Reading could attract a big named manager, capable of doing deals and possibly attracting players, sharing his knowledge.

If I recall correctly, his first season we just wanted to stabalise and push towards the top 6 of the table. Instead he broke every pundit (and every fan's) prediction by getting us all the way to the final. It wasn't the most exciting football but we exceed all expectations.

We're now 14 games in, have beaten, Villa, Birmingham and Leeds. We have drawn three and lost 7. We have quite a few key players injured, with Yann only just coming back now. We aren't even a 3'rd of the way into the season and people want him sacked. It's a complete over reaction.

I asked about two weeks ago, what the point in sacking him is. And as I said earlier in this thread, the pattern for almost EVERY club who does this (Birmingham, Leicester, Palace, Leeds, Sunderland, Forest) is the same. Manager gets sacked and new guy comes in. He ends up spunking about £5-10m on players and then 12 months later he gets sacked again... and repeat.

What Reading have going for them is about 1000x more than some other clubs. We have a group of players who have been together for a little while now and my whole thought process is we are building something. Things like this don't happen overnight.

I don't enjoy many of the games, I haven't for years. Adkins, Clarke, McDermott and now Stam. How many more managers do you want to try out? How many MORE players do you want to sign?

Just stick with what we have, give him the time and let him change things over the coming transfer windows and seasons.

Even if it means relegation?!

Depends on how that relegation comes about. If we're stuck in the relegation zone for large parts of the season and it's easily predictable, a changes is possibly necessary. But if we get sucked down at the last minute, a panic change isn't going to change much. And being in the bottom six at the start of November is rather early to hit panic stations IMO.

[Hound]

Injuries - esp Yann, Dadi and Obita have had a huge effect

But it’s no excuse for not getting the best out of the players on the pitch

Boring broken record that I am, going back to Villa. All of the attacking players that played so well in that game are fit - yet half of them have been benched or dropped altogether.

That front 3 worked - yet has not been seen since - it makes no sense.

We’ve enough quality who are available to make life difficult for any team in the division, yet are
Massively underperforming

[Snowflake Royal]

Injuries - esp Yann, Dadi and Obita have had a huge effect

But it’s no excuse for not getting the best out of the players on the pitch

Boring broken record that I am, going back to Villa. All of the attacking players that played so well in that game are fit - yet half of them have been benched or dropped altogether.

That front 3 worked - yet has not been seen since - it makes no sense.

We’ve enough quality who are available to make life difficult for any team in the division, yet are
Massively underperforming

Yeah, as with whenever things go badly like this, it's a combination of many factors. Stam is certainly one of them. But it's hard to get it right with this many other problems.

[Ascotexgunner]

Beerens has not become a bad player yet he comes forward, he stops, turns and passes backwards.....all our widemen do it.....Why is that?

If you watch most any Premier League game these days its a very common occurrence.

And, you'll also see plenty of (gasp!)...playing it back and forth across the back four from side to side.

Have you seen Man Yoo play this season? What about Chelsea last season? Or even Leicester the season before that? Winning the Premier League is not necessarily associated with playing 'attractive' footy these days. Some fans have recognized and adjusted to that, and some haven't. (And yes, those that haven't, are 'paying good money and yet aren't being 'entertained'...like in a 'movie'.)

So, when drawing up a list of potential replacements for Stam - (which I notice not too many have done) - it had better take on board the proviso... 'New manager must be one that is certain to play attractive footy, as well as getting us promoted and/or at least getting us Top 6 every year'. (Oh, and then somehow playing 'attractive footy' in the PL too once we get there...unlike quite a lot of the teams already there.)

If we stay with Stam and we stay up this season, and then make a strong run next season, will that be acceptable to most folk in here? Two playoff runs in three seasons?

As I've said in previous posts I don't mind if we finish mid table if we have given it a go. As far as the two spot kicks from the PL go, thank god we didn't go up......I honestly believe we could have ended up with less points than that Derby record.......that's nothing to be proud of and not a record I would want my club to have....All the teams you mention are top PL clubs........I'm talking about EFL clubs....The Sheffields, Leeds, Cardiff, even bloody Millwall.....they all go forward and play 100 mph football. Not the s£itty crap we churn out even with fully fit squad.

[double d]

Out of the 4 teams you mentioned, Leeds and Cardiff should be PL teams on this season form and Sheff United are top of the league!!!

[bobby1413]

It's because teams up their game against us, it's like their cup final and they want to put on a show

[Ascotexgunner]

Out of the 4 teams you mentioned, Leeds and Cardiff should be PL teams on this season form and Sheff United are top of the league!!!

Leeds should be a PL team I grant you but Sheffield United and Cardiff are not bigger or better clubs than us. They've come from where we have come from. As for SU being top.....just shows doesn't it.....League below us last season, this season top of the EFL this playing as I wish we would.

[Victor Meldrew]

Just as disappointed as everybody else after waiting for a month to watch a home game.
The sad thing is that Gunter (and Smith) for once comes out of the game with credit-why?
Because at long last he actually got forward at pace and put in two decent crosses in the first half, something we have been waiting so long for him to do as a wing-back-if we do continue to play with wing-backs I hope we will see much of the same from him-let's face it he hasn't a clue when it comes to defending and is the guy always looking around as the ball hits our net yet again so to get a game he surely has to be the attacking option that a wing-back brings..

I said under another topic earlier this week that the midfielders should be picking the ball up off the defenders and breaking at pace but this happens so seldom-most of our approach play starts now with Joey as a quarter-back but his passing is generally (apart from once this season at Leeds) just so ponderous and inaccurate-his Hoddle-esque attempt to play a ball wide to our right which sailed into the crowd summed him up. He is such an ineffective player and just a liability but, like Beerens, is so greatly favoured by the manager ahead of others it is pathetic.
The penalty came about because of his lack of awareness ( a trait shared with Blackett) of who and what were around him.

There is such a lack of desire in this current side and to see Smith make his runs (mostly to no avail) was refreshing and Moore's bravery should surely have rubbed off on the others but it didn't.

Who knows what will happen with Stam?
Some noble attempts to defend him from earlier posters who have exaggerated our injury toll-all clubs at any time have a number of players out injured and you just have to get on with it.
To slip from 3rd to 20th is worrying -are the owners worried?
We can't do anything about things and (not just the glory-seekers) fans are getting fed up of not seeing goals and less than a goal per game just is not acceptable as a form of football entertainment-will the owners do what most owners do?

[Snowflake Royal]

Got round to watching the highlights.

Definite pen in my eyes, Berg didn't really pull the shirt enough to justify a pen, but I think he just catches a foot by accident and impedes.

Gunter and McShane in no man's land. Gunter wrong side of his man and no apparent communication to McShane that he has to win it. Don't think Blackett was particularly at fault with the cross... made the right choice not to charge to try and get to the ball first, but maybe not tight enough on the player once he'd got there.

I noticed that Gunter charges out of position to leave a huge gap behind him that almost led to a third too.

Some promising interchanges between Aluko, Kelly, Smith & co in the very little there was to see of us attacking.

[Denver Royal]

Out of the 4 teams you mentioned, Leeds and Cardiff should be PL teams on this season form and Sheff United are top of the league!!!

Leeds should be a PL team I grant you but Sheffield United and Cardiff are not bigger or better clubs than us. They've come from where we have come from. As for SU being top.....just shows doesn't it.....League below us last season, this season top of the EFL this playing as I wish we would.

Cardiff haven't done much in recent seasons, and aren't generally known for their 'attractive' style of play, and certainly not under Warnock. Stam, in his first season in this div, and indeed his first season as a manager, finished above him/them. You can suddenly big Cardiff up now if you want, but let's see come May. (And, if somehow we ever had Warnock, you'd better believe many would be crying that it's not exciting and entertaining like a 'movie'.)

Fulham and Sheff Wed aren't so hot right now either, huh? Why is this? Remember when people said Fulham - with 'the best mgr and players in this div' would walk this div this season after we beat them in playoffs?

Sheff Utd are surely (currently) an outlier. Having just came up, most anyone knows they are an exception rather than the norm. But sure, us - and 22 other teams - are envious right now. But it's still Oct and who knows where they will finish.

Hard for me to hold up two teams in Oct - Cardiff and Sheff U - who really haven't done much in recent years. But hey, maybe that's just me...

[leon]

Out of the 4 teams you mentioned, Leeds and Cardiff should be PL teams on this season form and Sheff United are top of the league!!!

Leeds should be a PL team I grant you but Sheffield United and Cardiff are not bigger or better clubs than us. They've come from where we have come from. As for SU being top.....just shows doesn't it.....League below us last season, this season top of the EFL this playing as I wish we would.

Cardiff haven't done much in recent seasons, and aren't generally known for their 'attractive' style of play, and certainly not under Warnock. Stam, in his first season in this div, and indeed his first season as a manager, finished above him/them. You can suddenly big Cardiff up now if you want, but let's see come May.

Fulham and Sheff Wed aren't so hot right now either, huh? Why is this? Remember when people said Fulham - with 'the best mgr and players in this div' would walk this div this season after we beat them in playoffs?

Sheff Utd are surely (currently) an outlier. Having just came up, most anyone knows they are an exception rather than the norm. Yes, us and 22 other teams are envious right now, but who knows where they will finish.

Have you actually seen us this season?

Forget wanting to play attractive football, what about some actual football?

[Denver Royal]

Leeds should be a PL team I grant you but Sheffield United and Cardiff are not bigger or better clubs than us. They've come from where we have come from. As for SU being top.....just shows doesn't it.....League below us last season, this season top of the EFL this playing as I wish we would.

Cardiff haven't done much in recent seasons, and aren't generally known for their 'attractive' style of play, and certainly not under Warnock. Stam, in his first season in this div, and indeed his first season as a manager, finished above him/them. You can suddenly big Cardiff up now if you want, but let's see come May.

Fulham and Sheff Wed aren't so hot right now either, huh? Why is this? Remember when people said Fulham - with 'the best mgr and players in this div' would walk this div this season after we beat them in playoffs?

Sheff Utd are surely (currently) an outlier. Having just came up, most anyone knows they are an exception rather than the norm. Yes, us and 22 other teams are envious right now, but who knows where they will finish.

Have you actually seen us this season?

Forget wanting to play attractive football, what about some actual football?

If we made a strong run next season - 2 out of 3 seasons - would you be ok with that?

Why do you think Man Yoo and Chelsea, even with their resources, don't play 'football'.

I'm guessing you aren't a huge fan of Serie A ? It's prolly not like going to the movies, huh?