BFTG - Stevenage

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Re: BFTG - Stevenage

by Snowflake Royal » 07 Jan 2018 19:28

Ascotexgunner What's wrong with fans booing? I don't understand why its "disgraceful". How are fans supposed to vent their anger? They are grown professional men, their not children. Bloody Snowflake mentality. They should be trying to get fans onside, or questioning with the manager why its all a shambles. Clearly their not, or if they are their thicker than we give them credit.....Ive just watched a Forest team play some wonderful football and youngster taking responsibility and youngsters using their brains. Wonderful stuff........especially that young 18 year old striker.

Sorry, are you talking about the fans or players? It's hard to tell which.

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Re: BFTG - Stevenage

by Snowflake Royal » 07 Jan 2018 19:31

Ascotexgunner
muirinho
AthleticoSpizz yep, has degenerated into a “them and us”

Were Guntz and Paul Mac breaking ranks?

Regardless, their feedback was welcome....and very much overdue.


Gunts is a footballer who is also a football fan. It's one reason why the Wales supporters love him - they know if he wasn't a player, he'd be in the crowd. So, I think he's more aware than most of fan-player interaction - hence encouraging the team to go and face the fans, and also realising something had to be said, in the aftermath.
Also worth noting - some of the comments after the game were suggesting that not only did Macca not clap the fans he'd told other players to follow suit, by "leading them off the pitch" - in Gunts statement he made it clear that nobody had told the players not to clap (what he left unsaid is that without his (and Dave Edwards) intervention, none of them were particularly feeling it!). So he was also trying to patch up, as best he could, the damage that might have already been done

I'm not sure if Macca's response was off his own bat, triggered by Gunter's post, or "suggested" by club hierarchy - but also welcome, regardless.

I don't think in either case there was anything that club management could object to.

Ascotexgunner What's wrong with fans booing? I don't understand why its "disgraceful". How are fans supposed to vent their anger? They are grown professional men, their not children. Bloody Snowflake mentality. They should be trying to get fans onside, or questioning with the manager why its all a shambles. Clearly their not, or if they are their thicker than we give them credit.....Ive just watched a Forest team play some wonderful football and youngster taking responsibility and youngsters using their brains. Wonderful stuff........especially that young 18 year old striker.


What's right with it? What is it for?

Ultimately the message from Gunts, Macca, Stam is actually the same. And has been for quite some time. Garath McCleary was appealing for fans not to boo more than a year ago. Before that I can remember Danny Williams, Hope Akpan etc appealing for fan support at various times, when things weren't going well.

Message, basically is - Yes, you're entitled to boo if you don't like what you see, and we can't stop you, but why are you doing it? It really doesn't help. Aren't we all trying for the same goal?

Booing because you're fed up and want the players to know about it - well fine, if that's what you want to do. It's your money, your choice.
None of the players are claiming they cry themselves to sleep at night over it. They're saying it's not nice, it doesn't help, you're wasting your breath, and you're making the atmosphere worse.
Why is that a "snowflake mentality"
To be honest, the snowflake mentality I see is amongst the booers. It's Wah, wah, things aren't going the way I want them to. I'm going to lie on the floor and scream my head off, because that way ice-cream will suddenly appear.
Do you think the players want to lose?
Booing might be helping you to relieve your frustration.
But for the love of Friday, stop trying to pretend that it's "motivational", and it helps.


With all due respect Mr M its there to let the players know we are really really not happy. Considering the abuse they get away from home they really should be able to take a bit of booing. Why do you think the fans do it.......I think the fans have been incredibly patient but even that has its limits. The question is if fans didnt boo, the likes of Stam and his players would carry on regardless and carry on and hope things get better, which was clearly evident. The fans showing their unhappiness adds a dimension, it adds that bit of pressure and makes them think more. Incidentally I watch Wales regularly.....All fans love all members of that Euro2016 squad but even we can see Gunter gets good protection from Joe Ledley and Joe Allen.......We get the impression Gunter thinks he's better than he is. He was woeful in some of the WC qualifiers.


Do you not think the players are capable of working out the fans aren't happy on their own after drawing to a League 2 club having gone about 7 games without a win? Do you think the players are happy?

Do you think if the players aren't happy with the level of support they receive from the fans they should be entitled to let the fans know in no uncertain terms, perhaps by walking straight off without clapping them, without criticism?

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Re: BFTG - Stevenage

by muirinho » 07 Jan 2018 19:35

Ascotexgunner
With all due respect Mr M its there to let the players know we are really really not happy. Considering the abuse they get away from home they really should be able to take a bit of booing.


They never said they couldn't take it. They don't stop playing because they're being booed. They said it didn't help. And part of the trade-off of getting abuse away from home is it's meant to be that way. That's from the enemy, but they can deal with it, because their supporters have their back.

Except when they don't.

it adds that bit of pressure and makes them think more

Are you serious?
Has any player ever said that booing made them realise they were playing badly? Do you think the players thought they were winning on Saturday, and it was only the booing that told them what the score was?

The score is the pressure. The points are the pressure. Their own careers are the pressure.

Booing is poisoning the atmosphere for other fans as much as anything else. And isn't improving anything on the pitch. Yes you're entitled to do it. But I'm just as entitled to point out that it is ineffective and useless.

The only people you *might* want to get at with the booing are the owners and Stam. In both cases, you're going to get nowhere - either because they aren't there to hear it, or because, in the case of Stam, he's exactly the kind of person who will dig his heels in the more he feels he is being unfairly criticised.

I think Stam is FAR more likely to walk if he feels he is failing, but without massive criticism from the supporters, than if he thinks supporters are trying to hound him out of the club

even we can see Gunter gets good protection from Joe Ledley and Joe Allen.......We get the impression Gunter thinks he's better than he is. He was woeful in some of the WC qualifiers.


No idea why this is in any way relevant - yeah, he's not Gareth Bale, but he's certainly never claimed to be. Like all the Welsh team, he's had some good games and some mediocre ones since 2016. What does that have to do with Reading fans booing? And who is this "we" of whom you speak? All the Welsh people I know absolutely love him. One of them even has a tshirt quoting some post or other he made after they failed to qualify. Verging on sickening adoration tbh.

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Re: BFTG - Stevenage

by Hound » 07 Jan 2018 19:41

Stam has never been in this position. He could also throw a big flounce and resign. We have no idea tbh

Gourlay may well have been there. He was there at Barnsley. Crowd reaction may well influence him

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Re: BFTG - Stevenage

by bcubed » 07 Jan 2018 22:37

double d As a middle class club, should we not adopt the terribly middle class Barcelona approach of waving Hankies around.


I'd be very happy with this and personally I would be able to participate
But how many under 40s carry a hanky?

Perhaps an opportunity for the Megastore?! RFC logo hankies?


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Re: BFTG - Stevenage

by FiNeRaIn » 08 Jan 2018 09:41

AthleticoSpizz We’ve really been spoilt over the years, haven’t we


Not really, no. We've had two brief periods where we won promotion and have spent a grand total of 3 years in the prem. Contrast that with the history of clubs around us and we are ranked somewhere like 40th in terms of success in England, according to MOTD a few weeks ago who did historic premier league rankings. We've also never won the league cup, FA cup and never played in Europe, lots of English clubs have. We've gone back to being a middle of the pack championship side flirting with relegation after spending a decent sum of money on players which were supposed to push us on after failing in yet another play-off final ( wouldn't call that spoilt either, we are sick of losing). The cost of attending a match when you factor in tickets, travel and potential food or drink make it a decently expensive day so when our style is complete dross coupled with consistently shit results the fans have every right to voice their complains.

Not having a pop at you as i've seen other people say similar statements, its just a baffling conclusion where we've really achieved nothing noteworthy in football since our existence.

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Re: BFTG - Stevenage

by Maneki Neko » 08 Jan 2018 09:51

its all relative though, so that makes no sense.
if a club who has spent the majority of its time lower than the top 2 tiers, has about 15 of its highest ever league placings over a twenty year period, then its been pretty spoiled. in comparison with its history.

have they been spoiled in comparison to Man UTDs or liverpools history? No. But then that's a daft comparison

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Re: BFTG - Stevenage

by FiNeRaIn » 08 Jan 2018 10:01

Maneki Neko have they been spoiled in comparison to Man UTDs or liverpools history? No. But then that's a daft comparison


Who is making that comparison other than you? We were being compared to everyone else in the top few divisions and we were ranked something like 39th or 40th. Even many teams below us in the football league have won the top division as well as the cups. On history alone we are absolutely tiny in the overall story of English football. So I ask what exactly have we been spoilt by? I don't consider 4 play-off final defeats and 3 years in the prem being spoilt, especially when you look at all the clubs around us and what they have achieved. We had a couple of years of good football and won a promotion under Coppell, that was as good as it got.

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Re: BFTG - Stevenage

by Theroyalbox » 08 Jan 2018 10:05

Once again, Reading sell out an away end/have a big attendance and what do the team do, totally let the fans down. Today was another perfect opportunity to win score some goals come over to the fans at the end and start building a rapport again but unfortunately today just made it worse.

McShane has now not only been shit this season, but p*ssed of the fan base, he made it clear he didn't want to come over and appreciate the fans no matter what Gunter said. Watching Jaap after the game his intentions seemed to always come over and applaud the fans, but credit to Chris Gunter, who has been loyal, consistent and a top top bloke for Reading Football Club.

The situation for the fans is difficult, the footballs uninspiring the results are equally as bad and theres such a distance between the fans and the players, so why shouldn't we boo, sing stupid songs as mentioned before in this thread initially there was good support for the team but after 30 minutes of no shots on target no shots off target and no corners against a very very poor league 2 side, theres only a certain amount that can be taken.


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Re: BFTG - Stevenage

by genome » 08 Jan 2018 10:05

Look at Reading's history throughout the 70's and 80's, and the majority of the 90s then consider in the last 17 years we've had

2 Championship Titles
1 8th place Premier League finish
3 Promotions
1 Points Record
5 Playoff finishes
3 Playoff Finals
1 FA Cup Semi Final
4 FA Cup Quarter Finals
Only 3 seasons out of 17 finishing outside the top 10 in the Championship

On the flip side:
2 relegations
None of those playoffs were victories...that's about it

That's got to be one of the best records over the last couple of decades for most Football League clubs. A historically big club like your Leeds, Forests, or Sheffield Wednesdays who have been stuck down here for about the same amount of time would kill for a record like that.

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Re: BFTG - Stevenage

by Old Man Andrews » 08 Jan 2018 10:30

I am all for differing opinions but some of the blind support for Stam is ridiculous. There are so many weak minded people on Twitter who will back Stam no matter what. Jaap could come round their houses and take a dump on their pillow and they'd still worship him.

Same usual supects too. People from STAR scared to upset the club, The Tilehurst End pertrifed to upset anyone by having an opinion just in case it means they won't get free stuff from the club and the same few Twitter Reading fans (everyone knows them) who will constantly moan about "people booing at away games". People boo because the manager is inept and embarassing as are the players. Grow up.

The whole club is a joke.

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Re: BFTG - Stevenage

by tee peg » 08 Jan 2018 10:40

Old Man Andrews I am all for differing opinions but some of the blind support for Stam is ridiculous. There are so many weak minded people on Twitter who will back Stam no matter what. Jaap could come round their houses and take a dump on their pillow and they'd still worship him.

Same usual supects too. People from STAR scared to upset the club, The Tilehurst End pertrifed to upset anyone by having an opinion just in case it means they won't get free stuff from the club and the same few Twitter Reading fans (everyone knows them) who will constantly moan about "people booing at away games". People boo because the manager is inept and embarassing as are the players. Grow up.

The whole club is a joke.



We are doing it the Japp Stam way apparently.

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Re: BFTG - Stevenage

by double d » 08 Jan 2018 10:43

genome Look at Reading's history throughout the 70's and 80's, and the majority of the 90s then consider in the last 17 years we've had

2 Championship Titles
1 8th place Premier League finish
3 Promotions
1 Points Record
5 Playoff finishes
3 Playoff Finals
1 FA Cup Semi Final
4 FA Cup Quarter Finals
Only 3 seasons out of 17 finishing outside the top 10 in the Championship

On the flip side:
2 relegations
None of those playoffs were victories...that's about it

That's got to be one of the best records over the last couple of decades for most Football League clubs. A historically big club like your Leeds, Forests, or Sheffield Wednesdays who have been stuck down here for about the same amount of time would kill for a record like that.


POTY


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Re: BFTG - Stevenage

by Brum Royal » 08 Jan 2018 11:26

Just a quick question as I wasn't there, but a lot of the chat on the Facebook mong groups almost immediately after the game was of McShane "doing a Matt Mills" and giving the middle finger to the fans. Yet I've read all through this thread and not seen a single mention of it. I was there for the Matt Mills incident, I saw it, and it was all over the BFTG thread. Similarly the lack of apology from McShane suggests there was no such incident, so where is this idea (from a number of, I assume, unconnected people) actually coming from?

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Re: BFTG - Stevenage

by double d » 08 Jan 2018 11:32

Brum Royal Just a quick question as I wasn't there, but a lot of the chat on the Facebook mong groups almost immediately after the game was of McShane "doing a Matt Mills" and giving the middle finger to the fans. Yet I've read all through this thread and not seen a single mention of it. I was there for the Matt Mills incident, I saw it, and it was all over the BFTG thread. Similarly the lack of apology from McShane suggests there was no such incident, so where is this idea (from a number of, I assume, unconnected people) actually coming from?


There was no incident at all. Some of the people commenting on the reading fc facebook group are utter pfucking mongs. There is so much negativity on it always from people who dont know anything

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Re: BFTG - Stevenage

by AthleticoSpizz » 08 Jan 2018 11:39

FiNeRaIn
AthleticoSpizz We’ve really been spoilt over the years, haven’t we


Not really, no. We've had two brief periods where we won promotion and have spent a grand total of 3 years in the prem. Contrast that with the history of clubs around us and we are ranked somewhere like 40th in terms of success in England, according to MOTD a few weeks ago who did historic premier league rankings. We've also never won the league cup, FA cup and never played in Europe, lots of English clubs have. We've gone back to being a middle of the pack championship side flirting with relegation after spending a decent sum of money on players which were supposed to push us on after failing in yet another play-off final ( wouldn't call that spoilt either, we are sick of losing). The cost of attending a match when you factor in tickets, travel and potential food or drink make it a decently expensive day so when our style is complete dross coupled with consistently shit results the fans have every right to voice their complains.

Not having a pop at you as i've seen other people say similar statements, its just a baffling conclusion where we've really achieved nothing noteworthy in football since our existence.
yep, good post, fair points.

It was just a bit of a throw-away comment based on past greyday Div 4 days versus the relative (and what some old scrotes like me still see as) recent success.

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Re: BFTG - Stevenage

by muirinho » 08 Jan 2018 11:45

Old Man Andrews I am all for differing opinions but some of the blind support for Stam is ridiculous. There are so many weak minded people on Twitter who will back Stam no matter what. Jaap could come round their houses and take a dump on their pillow and they'd still worship him.

Same usual supects too. People from STAR scared to upset the club, The Tilehurst End pertrifed to upset anyone by having an opinion just in case it means they won't get free stuff from the club and the same few Twitter Reading fans (everyone knows them) who will constantly moan about "people booing at away games". People boo because the manager is inept and embarassing as are the players. Grow up.

The whole club is a joke.


Club will still be here after Stam is gone. Whether he goes because he is pushed, or leaves under his own accord.

But for me, it's not the club that's a joke, it's some of its supporters.

I don't want my club to be one of those with hyprocitical supporters who demand loyalty from managers and players, but turn on them as soon as things aren't working, without giving them an opportunity to put stuff right.

I don't want my club to be one of those with supporters who think they are somehow entitled to success. And perfection. Not just winning, but winning in the "right" way. With players who will always make the right decisions, and never have an off day.

This isn't about Stam.

This is about the abuse Leigertwood, for instance, got, the year after his goal got us promoted, because some supporters decided he wasn't good enough any more. Hero to zero in a couple of months.

This is about "fans" audibly groaning if the ball isn't kicked long, but then audibly groaning if it does go long, and it isn't won. You have a player on the ball, with opposition players closing in, already under pressure because he doesn't have many options to pass to - and he's being jeered by his own supporters. How can anybody think that's helpful?

This is about #McDermottOut tweets barely a month after he'd started.

This is about people saying Clarke should leave, and then calling him a snake because he asked for permission to talk to another club

This is about fans claiming players aren't trying or don't care, when there is clear evidence that they very much do.

This is about fans who'll be smarming up to a player to get a selfie if they happened to meet them in Tescos, but will call them embarrassing, and giving it large from the safety of the stand if they make a mistake in a game. Because none of them have never made a mistake in their own work. Right.

I was at the West Brom FA Cup game at the Mad Stad when one of their supporters threw a coin that hit Chris Brunt, because he was so angry that his club lost to little old Reading. That guy had played hundreds of games for that club, and that's the way they rewarded his loyalty. Did they think he wanted to lose?

It's that kind of ignorant entitled childish behaviour that I hate. Sneering at players because they are talented, and work hard, and do something that the supporters aren't able to do, and as a result get a lot of money for it - somehow that means that the minute things go wrong, it's perfectly ok to abuse their character. Or boo them. Or throw things at them.

I don't want my club to be like that.

We want different things. We think different things are acceptable as supporters. Maybe you see that as "blind support". I don't. I give my reviews of games, and I'm not always kind. I question some players commitment, and skill. I criticise selections and tactics.

What I won't do is hurl abuse at my own team during an actual game.

Bad enough some of the stuff that gets chanted at opposition players. But to be doing it to your own? It's like booing yourself.

Old Man Andrews

Re: BFTG - Stevenage

by Old Man Andrews » 08 Jan 2018 11:55

muirinho
Old Man Andrews I am all for differing opinions but some of the blind support for Stam is ridiculous. There are so many weak minded people on Twitter who will back Stam no matter what. Jaap could come round their houses and take a dump on their pillow and they'd still worship him.

Same usual supects too. People from STAR scared to upset the club, The Tilehurst End pertrifed to upset anyone by having an opinion just in case it means they won't get free stuff from the club and the same few Twitter Reading fans (everyone knows them) who will constantly moan about "people booing at away games". People boo because the manager is inept and embarassing as are the players. Grow up.

The whole club is a joke.


Club will still be here after Stam is gone. Whether he goes because he is pushed, or leaves under his own accord.

But for me, it's not the club that's a joke, it's some of its supporters.

I don't want my club to be one of those with hyprocitical supporters who demand loyalty from managers and players, but turn on them as soon as things aren't working, without giving them an opportunity to put stuff right.

I don't want my club to be one of those with supporters who think they are somehow entitled to success. And perfection. Not just winning, but winning in the "right" way. With players who will always make the right decisions, and never have an off day.

This isn't about Stam.

This is about the abuse Leigertwood, for instance, got, the year after his goal got us promoted, because some supporters decided he wasn't good enough any more. Hero to zero in a couple of months.

This is about "fans" audibly groaning if the ball isn't kicked long, but then audibly groaning if it does go long, and it isn't won. You have a player on the ball, with opposition players closing in, already under pressure because he doesn't have many options to pass to - and he's being jeered by his own supporters. How can anybody think that's helpful?

This is about #McDermottOut tweets barely a month after he'd started.

This is about people saying Clarke should leave, and then calling him a snake because he asked for permission to talk to another club

This is about fans claiming players aren't trying or don't care, when there is clear evidence that they very much do.

This is about fans who'll be smarming up to a player to get a selfie if they happened to meet them in Tescos, but will call them embarrassing, and giving it large from the safety of the stand if they make a mistake in a game. Because none of them have never made a mistake in their own work. Right.

I was at the West Brom FA Cup game at the Mad Stad when one of their supporters threw a coin that hit Chris Brunt, because he was so angry that his club lost to little old Reading. That guy had played hundreds of games for that club, and that's the way they rewarded his loyalty. Did they think he wanted to lose?

It's that kind of ignorant entitled childish behaviour that I hate. Sneering at players because they are talented, and work hard, and do something that the supporters aren't able to do, and as a result get a lot of money for it - somehow that means that the minute things go wrong, it's perfectly ok to abuse their character. Or boo them. Or throw things at them.

I don't want my club to be like that.

We want different things. We think different things are acceptable as supporters. Maybe you see that as "blind support". I don't. I give my reviews of games, and I'm not always kind. I question some players commitment, and skill. I criticise selections and tactics.

What I won't do is hurl abuse at my own team during an actual game.

Bad enough some of the stuff that gets chanted at opposition players. But to be doing it to your own? It's like booing yourself.


I am talking about away from the game on social media. The local media, fan websites and certain supporters are not opening their eyes to how bad things are. This notion that if you complain about the garbage we are being served up on the pitch somehow makes you less of a fan is complete and utter nonsense. Being a supporter doesn't mean you cannot show anger and give real opinions. The Tilehurst End for example are so frightened to tell it like it is just because they won't get to get free things from the club it is embarassing. They have a duty to represent the supporters views and they aren't at all. Their editor is a weak individual too frightened to have opinions or listen to the opinions of people he doesn't agree with.

The chanting at games I do not agree with and do not join in. I am not talking about just that. Supporters do have a right to show displeasure though and what you are I think saying is people who pay good money to follow the team all around the country do not have that right?

Is it acceptable to go to a League 2 team and not play on the front foot to try and win the game?

Is it acceptable to not play a striker against a League 2 side?

The answer to the above questions is surely no. How can you expect supporters not to boo? The chanting, the online abuse we totally agree on btw, no need for that at all but I think we are definitely at the stage where the management and the players have to be asked serious questions. As long as it is kept about the football I cannot see the issue.
Last edited by Old Man Andrews on 08 Jan 2018 12:09, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: BFTG - Stevenage

by genome » 08 Jan 2018 11:59

That's a cracking post, murinho

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Re: BFTG - Stevenage

by Maneki Neko » 08 Jan 2018 12:02

FiNeRaIn
Maneki Neko have they been spoiled in comparison to Man UTDs or liverpools history? No. But then that's a daft comparison


Who is making that comparison other than you? We were being compared to everyone else in the top few divisions and we were ranked something like 39th or 40th..


to answer the question,the only comparison that's worth doing imo is with our own history.
without doubt our 'recent' record contains most of our highest ever league placings and only two periods in the top flight, so it would appear that we are certainly in(or have been) some sort of halcyon era. whether that constitutes a spoiling I cannot say.

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