Clements Out.

[windermereROYAL]

Clement's biggest flaw is thinking Swift can play anywhere other than CAM or maybe LF. He's a total liability in our own half.

The 4-4-2 everyone wanted worked well, worst scoreline of the season for us.

I'm not necessarily sure the 4-4-2 itself was the problem, it was filling it with our two most powderpuff/lightweight midfielders. He should've put a stronger/bigger midfielder in there alongside Kelly OR Swift.

Like a Leigertwood alongside a Karacan.

I don't think Clement was without fault for Saturday's horror show, but I'm not going pass any judgement on him as a manager until well into next season.

He was at fault indeed, seeing the team before we left the pub with Swift and Kelly and no DM, just told us we were heavily an attacking side . that came back to bite us on the bum.

[Hound]

if the defence had done its job properly, the 4-4-2 wouldn't really have been a problem.

The fact is the players we have in CM aren't good enough. I don't think Ipswich dominated our midfield any more than any other team has when we have shoved 3 in there. When was the last time we dominated a game in midfield - and yet we've played 3 there nearly every game. DO people think we'd have won if we'd gone 4-3-3?

If we had a decent solid DM I'm sure he would have been played. Fact is the choices available are all poor. If Edwards, Evans or Joey had been part of a 2 they'd have been equally poor, if not worse imo.

[Victor Meldrew]

I get a bit fed up reading about defensive midfielders-why can't they just be midfielders?
Mick Gooding was a good example IMHO of what a midfielder should be as was Bryan Robson, Souness and now Fernandhino and Kante.

I like midfielders who can do the lot and regrettably we don't currently have any-they are either a Joey or an Evans who are tagged with being defensive midfielders or a Swift who is just an attacking midfielder-I'm not sure what Edwards or Kelly are meant to be.

I would like to see us sign somebody like Harry Arter from Bournemouth (plus two or three similar- a fit Stephen Quinn as another example) who is capable of doing all the midfield roles rather than this idea of needing one, two or three defensive midfielders that some clubs go for unlike City, Liverpool or Real Madrid (3 teams that aren't too shabby) who don't do things that way.

It would be a start and then we add a new keeper,right and left back plus a couple of strikers and away we go-simple isn't it?

[hughsies no.1]

Any talk about blaming Clement is farcical.

All blame is on the players here and I genuinely believe they are not playing for him, have you ever seen a reaction from a set of players on social media after a manager sacking - almost every player posted a Stam tribute, they loved him yet could only muster 1 win in 19 for him.

They're not playing for Clement and I reckon there is a bad taste left in their mouth after Stam left. Look at the discipline, the performances, we need to get to the summer and clear out all these Stam lovers.

I also noticed at the time that no players were 'liking' the social posts about Clement being appointed (apart from Mannone, who was dropped at the end of Stam regime so no shock there).

So I can't have any blame for Clement for Saturday, it was non-league defending and hideous mistakes like the 10 misplaced Swift passes that cost us. Players heads aren't in it.

We will luck out and survive on Sunday due to other teams downfall - then clear the problem players out, get the likes of Popa etc back. New season, new team.

Rant over.

[Snowflake Royal]

if the defence had done its job properly, the 4-4-2 wouldn't really have been a problem.

The fact is the players we have in CM aren't good enough. I don't think Ipswich dominated our midfield any more than any other team has when we have shoved 3 in there. When was the last time we dominated a game in midfield - and yet we've played 3 there nearly every game. DO people think we'd have won if we'd gone 4-3-3?

If we had a decent solid DM I'm sure he would have been played. Fact is the choices available are all poor. If Edwards, Evans or Joey had been part of a 2 they'd have been equally poor, if not worse imo.

That would hold more weight if Kelly, Kermorgant and Barrow hadn't started off the errors that led to the first two goals between them.

We had literally no one capable of doing any decent defensive work across our entire middle four. Any side where that's true deserves to lose and the manager has to take a big slice of the blame.

Clearly Clement can't be judged yet and clearly the players are far more at fault for our predicament. But he dropped a massive one with his selection for Ipswich.

I'm 99.9% confident we don't lose that 0-4 with Edwards, Evans or Berg in for Swift / Kelly / Kermorgant

[Coppells Lost Coat]

if the defence had done its job properly, the 4-4-2 wouldn't really have been a problem.

The fact is the players we have in CM aren't good enough. I don't think Ipswich dominated our midfield any more than any other team has when we have shoved 3 in there. When was the last time we dominated a game in midfield - and yet we've played 3 there nearly every game. DO people think we'd have won if we'd gone 4-3-3?

If we had a decent solid DM I'm sure he would have been played. Fact is the choices available are all poor. If Edwards, Evans or Joey had been part of a 2 they'd have been equally poor, if not worse imo.

That would hold more weight if Kelly, Kermorgant and Barrow hadn't started off the errors that led to the first two goals between them.

We had literally no one capable of doing any decent defensive work across our entire middle four. Any side where that's true deserves to lose and the manager has to take a big slice of the blame.

Clearly Clement can't be judged yet and clearly the players are far more at fault for our predicament. But he dropped a massive one with his selection for Ipswich.

I'm 99.9% confident we don't lose that 0-4 with Edwards, Evans or Berg in for Swift / Kelly / Kermorgant

Have to agree. Not the biggest fan of Joey, however he does at least try and put a foot in and looks more effective in a 5 man midfield. Cant see us winning with him in the middle though.
Even if that team was fully fit and confident, i dont think it could compete in the middle, was a bizarre starting 11 considering our situation.

[Snowball]

If Elphick is fit to play, could we play Ilori in the central DM position?

Do people think we will set up vainly hoping for a turgid 0-0 draw,
or will we try to play?

[Forbury Lion]

Clement did the right thing. Players utterly let him, the fans and themselves down YET AGAIN.

None of this is Clement's fault as he has largely had his hands tied by injuries and suspensions and general crap from of those aren't injured and suspended.

Roll on next season, wherever it is and a chance to see if we have a manager who can get the balance between a passing game of football, tempo and fight correct.

In what way did the fans let themselves down?

Didn't stay for the lap of appreciation at the end?

Deciding leave when we still had everything to play for at 4-0 down?

[Forbury Lion]

If Elphick is fit to play, could we play Ilori in the central DM position?

Do people think we will set up vainly hoping for a turgid 0-0 draw,
or will we try to play?

I don't think we're capable of keeping a clean sheet, so we have no option but to attack.

[genome]

If Elphick is fit to play, could we play Ilori in the central DM position?

Do people think we will set up vainly hoping for a turgid 0-0 draw,
or will we try to play?

I'd put Ilori at RB again... he looked okay there.

[Augem]

It's too early to judge although it's not looking good, hopefully someone will do us a favour to stay in the Championship because we won't get anything at Cardiff.
I think Clements should be given twenty matches next season to prove himself NO more, we should try and bring back Murty as his as his assistant now he seems to be available to put some passion and commitment back into the team.

[Snowball]

If Elphick is fit to play, could we play Ilori in the central DM position?

Do people think we will set up vainly hoping for a turgid 0-0 draw,
or will we try to play?

I'd put Ilori at RB again... he looked okay there.

I'd be amazed if Gunter gets dropped

[Double d v2]

It's nobodies fault, simply fate and the year ending in 8

[Coppells Lost Coat]

IMO i think we should play for the draw, but have Bod and Barrow up top for a break away. Cardiff will be pushing for the win as a draw is not good enough to guarantee 2nd. Also prefer Aluko not to start either as he does not and has not worked hard enough for the spot. No idea who can replace him though.

[Double d v2]

If Elphick is fit to play, could we play Ilori in the central DM position?

Do people think we will set up vainly hoping for a turgid 0-0 draw,
or will we try to play?

I'd put Ilori at RB again... he looked okay there.

I'd be amazed if Gunter gets dropped

he Will never get dropped

[Forbury Lion]

I get a bit fed up reading about defensive midfielders-why can't they just be midfielders?
Mick Gooding was a good example IMHO of what a midfielder should be as was Bryan Robson, Souness and now Fernandhino and Kante.

or another relevant example, Steve Sidwell in his Reading days - Able to tackle, willing to track back/stay back but could also attack and score goals.

[Snowball]

About PASSION


I would rather finish low top half in the second tier and getting a cup run
every few years if it meant we had men with guts running through walls
and a bit of actual excitement on match day.


Even if Stam football had worked long-term, I don't think I could have
stayed watching it.

That's what worries me about Clement's reign. The fans of previous
clubs have complained about his no-risk, sterile set ups.

[Stranded]

If Elphick is fit to play, could we play Ilori in the central DM position?

Do people think we will set up vainly hoping for a turgid 0-0 draw,
or will we try to play?

I'd put Ilori at RB again... he looked okay there.

I'd be amazed if Gunter gets dropped

Clement recently mentioned RB as being a position where there is no real competition, so get the feeling he is not happy with Gunter's performances of late. Think he will play but more out of lack of options than anything else.

[Snowball]

I get a bit fed up reading about defensive midfielders-why can't they just be midfielders?
Mick Gooding was a good example IMHO of what a midfielder should be as was Bryan Robson, Souness and now Fernandhino and Kante.

or another relevant example, Steve Sidwell in his Reading days - Able to tackle, willing to track back/stay back but could also attack and score goals.

I don't think, necessarily people are demanding one or two DMs

What they would like is a midfield that actually fights and wins ball.

Agreed, a tough box-to-box midfielder is great, but there must be that "TOUGH" in there.

[muirinho]

If Elphick is fit to play, could we play Ilori in the central DM position?

Do people think we will set up vainly hoping for a turgid 0-0 draw,
or will we try to play?

I'd put Ilori at RB again... he looked okay there.

I'd be amazed if Gunter gets dropped

Think the implication was that Gunter would stay at LB, since Blackett will still be suspended, and Richards had to come off early.

Apart from blaming all of those on the pitch, I'm also going to blame Bacuna - but for his idiotic sending off, he could have played right back, and the partnership of Ilori and Moore could have stayed as it was, without being disrupted by having to introduce Elphick who wasn't up to speed.

Also got to say, for all those calling for Moore to be captain, he showed nothing in the way of leadership during that collapse on Saturday, and was culpable in two of the goals. (Same goes for Elphick btw, who some have mentioned also). If Macca leaves, and we need a new captain next year, I'm not convinced Moore would be a good captain when we're in trouble. Not yet anyway - maybe in a few years time. Having said that, Macca has presided over plenty shit-shows himself, and IMO, has no better record than Gunter, who I think plenty on here would be happy to see leave/demoted.

In terms of rebuilding, or whatever, regardless of what positions we should be looking at, maybe we should be looking at buying a flipping captain.