Clements Out.

[Hound]

if the defence had done its job properly, the 4-4-2 wouldn't really have been a problem.

The fact is the players we have in CM aren't good enough. I don't think Ipswich dominated our midfield any more than any other team has when we have shoved 3 in there. When was the last time we dominated a game in midfield - and yet we've played 3 there nearly every game. DO people think we'd have won if we'd gone 4-3-3?

If we had a decent solid DM I'm sure he would have been played. Fact is the choices available are all poor. If Edwards, Evans or Joey had been part of a 2 they'd have been equally poor, if not worse imo.

That would hold more weight if Kelly, Kermorgant and Barrow hadn't started off the errors that led to the first two goals between them.

We had literally no one capable of doing any decent defensive work across our entire middle four. Any side where that's true deserves to lose and the manager has to take a big slice of the blame.

Clearly Clement can't be judged yet and clearly the players are far more at fault for our predicament. But he dropped a massive one with his selection for Ipswich.

I'm 99.9% confident we don't lose that 0-4 with Edwards, Evans or Berg in for Swift / Kelly / Kermorgant

but like I've said - we've played 3 in the middle, normally with Edwards, Evans or Joey in there, and won 3 games in 26.

I don't for one minute think that selection or set up cost us anything. It was the performances of the players that did that

[Snowflake Royal]

if the defence had done its job properly, the 4-4-2 wouldn't really have been a problem.

The fact is the players we have in CM aren't good enough. I don't think Ipswich dominated our midfield any more than any other team has when we have shoved 3 in there. When was the last time we dominated a game in midfield - and yet we've played 3 there nearly every game. DO people think we'd have won if we'd gone 4-3-3?

If we had a decent solid DM I'm sure he would have been played. Fact is the choices available are all poor. If Edwards, Evans or Joey had been part of a 2 they'd have been equally poor, if not worse imo.

That would hold more weight if Kelly, Kermorgant and Barrow hadn't started off the errors that led to the first two goals between them.

We had literally no one capable of doing any decent defensive work across our entire middle four. Any side where that's true deserves to lose and the manager has to take a big slice of the blame.

Clearly Clement can't be judged yet and clearly the players are far more at fault for our predicament. But he dropped a massive one with his selection for Ipswich.

I'm 99.9% confident we don't lose that 0-4 with Edwards, Evans or Berg in for Swift / Kelly / Kermorgant

but like I've said - we've played 3 in the middle, normally with Edwards, Evans or Joey in there, and won 3 games in 26.

I don't for one minute think that selection or set up cost us anything. It was the performances of the players that did that

Going to have to disagree. That midfield selection was unacceptable.

I'm not saying we would have won or draw. But we'd have had a damn sight better chance with someone in midfield who isn't made of moonbeams and fairy dust.

[Hound]

Fair enough, but just see little evidence of any other selection being any better

[Denver Royal]

I get a bit fed up reading about defensive midfielders-why can't they just be midfielders?
Mick Gooding was a good example IMHO of what a midfielder should be as was Bryan Robson, Souness and now Fernandhino and Kante.

or another relevant example, Steve Sidwell in his Reading days - Able to tackle, willing to track back/stay back but could also attack and score goals.

Sids is still playing. Cheeky bid? Or maybe he's out of contract anyway. Boom, first piece of the puzzle in place.

[windermereROYAL]

I get a bit fed up reading about defensive midfielders-why can't they just be midfielders?
Mick Gooding was a good example IMHO of what a midfielder should be as was Bryan Robson, Souness and now Fernandhino and Kante.

or another relevant example, Steve Sidwell in his Reading days - Able to tackle, willing to track back/stay back but could also attack and score goals.

Sids is still playing. Cheeky bid? Or maybe he's out of contract anyway. Boom, first piece of the puzzle in place.

Not happy the way he left the pitch after his final game for us, couldnt get off the pitch quickly enough, and all the distain he`s had for us since he left,
Brighton promotion celebrations , taken to a whole new level , or words to that affect.
He can just piss off.

[Tilehurstsouthbank]

What was that? What a load of shite. Then to blame the players was poor, they just stuck to an over complicated plan that keeps backfiring.

You only got the job cos of some shite you spoke on Match of the Day.

Go now Please. You irritated Swansea and Derby fans, now it’s our turn.

Also go now Gourlay, you have done nothing for this Club.

If you're going to publicly bash someone a good start is getting their name right...

[Ascotexgunner]

Im glad you bought this up...even if you got his name wrong.
Personally hes gonna be another disaster. I have no idea what he has achieved as such other than getting the boot from 2 jobs and carrying cones for Ancelotti. He appears only to be a slight upgrade from Stam.....and I don't know what he said to the players but the last 2 games appear to have completely flattened any confidence they might have had left. Not very inspiring is it?
He will be gone by Dec/Jan I suspect, and Gourley, who clearly seems to think he has Chelsea's and ManU's spending power, will have dished out another stupid contract that costs the club a fortune.
Why oh why are young, successful managers from the lower leagues overlooked in favour of "names" who have done absolutely nothing to warrant their position.

[Zip]

Im glad you bought this up...even if you got his name wrong.
Personally hes gonna be another disaster. I have no idea what he has achieved as such other than getting the boot from 2 jobs and carrying cones for Ancelotti. He appears only to be a slight upgrade from Stam.....and I don't know what he said to the players but the last 2 games appear to have completely flattened any confidence they might have had left. Not very inspiring is it?
He will be gone by Dec/Jan I suspect, and Gourley, who clearly seems to think he has Chelsea's and ManU's spending power, will have dished out another stupid contract that costs the club a fortune.
Why oh why are young, successful managers from the lower leagues overlooked in favour of "names" who have done absolutely nothing to warrant their position.

Give him a chance. He is working with someone else’s squad. A squad that is massively unbalanced and physically not fit enough. Let’s judge once he has put his own stamp in the squad.

[Snowflake Royal]

Im glad you bought this up...even if you got his name wrong.
Personally hes gonna be another disaster. I have no idea what he has achieved as such other than getting the boot from 2 jobs and carrying cones for Ancelotti. He appears only to be a slight upgrade from Stam.....and I don't know what he said to the players but the last 2 games appear to have completely flattened any confidence they might have had left. Not very inspiring is it?
He will be gone by Dec/Jan I suspect, and Gourley, who clearly seems to think he has Chelsea's and ManU's spending power, will have dished out another stupid contract that costs the club a fortune.
Why oh why are young, successful managers from the lower leagues overlooked in favour of "names" who have done absolutely nothing to warrant their position.

He kept Swansea up. He's *probably* kept us up. He at least tried to address some of the glaring issues we had under Stam, if only temporarily successfully.

Anyone judging him before he's had about 20 games next season is being a bit of a knob IMO.

[Double d v2]

Im glad you bought this up...even if you got his name wrong.
Personally hes gonna be another disaster. I have no idea what he has achieved as such other than getting the boot from 2 jobs and carrying cones for Ancelotti. He appears only to be a slight upgrade from Stam.....and I don't know what he said to the players but the last 2 games appear to have completely flattened any confidence they might have had left. Not very inspiring is it?
He will be gone by Dec/Jan I suspect, and Gourley, who clearly seems to think he has Chelsea's and ManU's spending power, will have dished out another stupid contract that costs the club a fortune.
Why oh why are young, successful managers from the lower leagues overlooked in favour of "names" who have done absolutely nothing to warrant their position.

He kept Swansea up. He's *probably* kept us up. He at least tried to address some of the glaring issues we had under Stam, if only temporarily successfully.

Anyone judging him before he's had about 20 games next season is being a bit of a knob IMO.

It is impossible to judge any manager who inherits a shower of shit so late in the season. Lets give him a full pre-season with the full backing and funds of the board, get him to blend his players and style together (the players have had boring, bollocks, pansy football embedded in them for 2 years almost) then we will see where we are.

No point judging anything until after pre-season, lets see the signings and how the team performs after 5-10 games. He may be a miracle worker and turn Aluko into a semi decent footballer.

[Oilroyal]

Im glad you bought this up...even if you got his name wrong.
Personally hes gonna be another disaster. I have no idea what he has achieved as such other than getting the boot from 2 jobs and carrying cones for Ancelotti. He appears only to be a slight upgrade from Stam.....and I don't know what he said to the players but the last 2 games appear to have completely flattened any confidence they might have had left. Not very inspiring is it?
He will be gone by Dec/Jan I suspect, and Gourley, who clearly seems to think he has Chelsea's and ManU's spending power, will have dished out another stupid contract that costs the club a fortune.
Why oh why are young, successful managers from the lower leagues overlooked in favour of "names" who have done absolutely nothing to warrant their position.

He kept Swansea up. He's *probably* kept us up. He at least tried to address some of the glaring issues we had under Stam, if only temporarily successfully.

Anyone judging him before he's had about 20 games next season is being a bit of a knob IMO.

It is impossible to judge any manager who inherits a shower of shit so late in the season. Lets give him a full pre-season with the full backing and funds of the board, get him to blend his players and style together (the players have had boring, bollocks, pansy football embedded in them for 2 years almost) then we will see where we are.

No point judging anything until after pre-season, lets see the signings and how the team performs after 5-10 games. He may be a miracle worker and turn Aluko into a semi decent footballer.

He’ll never turn Aluko into a decent player but Clement will keep us up if only by default of other results. And don’t be surprised if he resigns after seeing first-hand what a train wreck of a club we’ve become. Decent man manager, decent person who deserves better.

[EverHopeful]

Clement did the right thing. Players utterly let him, the fans and themselves down YET AGAIN.

None of this is Clement's fault as he has largely had his hands tied by injuries and suspensions and general crap from of those aren't injured and suspended.

Roll on next season, wherever it is and a chance to see if we have a manager who can get the balance between a passing game of football, tempo and fight correct.

+1

[Denver Royal]

Decent man manager, decent person who deserves better.

Strange then, that he wasn't managing a better club, or indeed any club, and nobody had snapped him up? If he deserves better, why wasn't he offered it? I won't be feeling sorry for him. Nobody forced him to take the job. When a manager walks in to most any club mid season it's often a mess. But still, he must have taken a look and liked what he saw, no?

[windermereROYAL]

Stop adding fuel to a troll thread, let it sink off the first page to where it belongs.

[Oilroyal]

Decent man manager, decent person who deserves better.

Strange then, that he wasn't managing a better club, or indeed any club, and nobody had snapped him up? If he deserves better, why wasn't he offered it? I won't be feeling sorry for him. Nobody forced him to take the job. When a manager walks in to most any club mid season it's often a mess. But still, he must have taken a look and liked what he saw, no?

Yes, you are right and for a few home games he injected his desire and got the results needed with an unbalanced squad that are totally lacking in confidence.

I guess my reasoning for him possibly resigning is that this club is a wreck (please convince me it’s not, no please do). He keeps us up and he escapes. In business advisers would advise for you to resign. Remind me, his last job, was he a Championship manager or a Premier league manager? Regardless of weather he was sacked or not, after all your Stam was sacked?

He dont need this shit, the club's a mess

[Oilroyal]

Stop adding fuel to a troll thread, let it sink off the first page to where it belongs.

I'm no troll ... Windermere read your posts and move on... nothing to see here

[royalp-we]

Any talk about blaming Clement is farcical.

All blame is on the players here and I genuinely believe they are not playing for him, have you ever seen a reaction from a set of players on social media after a manager sacking - almost every player posted a Stam tribute, they loved him yet could only muster 1 win in 19 for him.

They're not playing for Clement and I reckon there is a bad taste left in their mouth after Stam left. Look at the discipline, the performances, we need to get to the summer and clear out all these Stam lovers.

I also noticed at the time that no players were 'liking' the social posts about Clement being appointed (apart from Mannone, who was dropped at the end of Stam regime so no shock there).

So I can't have any blame for Clement for Saturday, it was non-league defending and hideous mistakes like the 10 misplaced Swift passes that cost us. Players heads aren't in it.

We will luck out and survive on Sunday due to other teams downfall - then clear the problem players out, get the likes of Popa etc back. New season, new team.

Rant over.

Agree with much of this.

Clement has publicly called out the team as the work rate and application is simply not there.

Clement has already said the team severely require sintensity back in the style. It's not easy to introduce that 40 games in to a season.

This lot loved Stam because they had it easy. oxf*rd all tempo and it was always the fans fault, not the players or manager.

Im happy to give Clement a chance to make his mark over the summer. It's abundantly clear how poorly this team was prepared pre season, then managed and conditioned as the season has progressed.

[Oilroyal]

Any talk about blaming Clement is farcical.

All blame is on the players here and I genuinely believe they are not playing for him, have you ever seen a reaction from a set of players on social media after a manager sacking - almost every player posted a Stam tribute, they loved him yet could only muster 1 win in 19 for him.

They're not playing for Clement and I reckon there is a bad taste left in their mouth after Stam left. Look at the discipline, the performances, we need to get to the summer and clear out all these Stam lovers.

I also noticed at the time that no players were 'liking' the social posts about Clement being appointed (apart from Mannone, who was dropped at the end of Stam regime so no shock there).

So I can't have any blame for Clement for Saturday, it was non-league defending and hideous mistakes like the 10 misplaced Swift passes that cost us. Players heads aren't in it.

We will luck out and survive on Sunday due to other teams downfall - then clear the problem players out, get the likes of Popa etc back. New season, new team.

Rant over.

Agree with much of this.

Clement has publicly called out the team as the work rate and application is simply not there.

Clement has already said the team severely require sintensity back in the style. It's not easy to introduce that 40 games in to a season.

This lot loved Stam because they had it easy. oxf*rd all tempo and it was always the fans fault, not the players or manager.

Im happy to give Clement a chance to make his mark over the summer. It's abundantly clear how poorly this team was prepared pre season, then managed and conditioned as the season has progressed.

lucky to have Clement and lucky to be rid of Stam. all points you make I agree with especially our poor pre season (only wish I'd have posted it back in August )

If we're going down the route of a footballing side then Clement is our man to rebuild over time. If you want 442 with crash and bang then Mick McCarthy's your man but you'd be up in arms. The club will needs 2 or 3 years to settle, same said for the fans.

[Denver Royal]

I'm not going pass any judgement on him as a manager until well into next season.

'Well into next season'? Hmmm, so not 8 games in then...which is when you started the In/Out thread (after a playoff final loss on pens)?

It's starting to feel like Clement might somehow get a season, plus an 8 game honeymoon? Not entirely sure why. But hey, this is HNA?, so it might play out differently...

[Double d v2]

Any talk about blaming Clement is farcical.

All blame is on the players here and I genuinely believe they are not playing for him, have you ever seen a reaction from a set of players on social media after a manager sacking - almost every player posted a Stam tribute, they loved him yet could only muster 1 win in 19 for him.

They're not playing for Clement and I reckon there is a bad taste left in their mouth after Stam left. Look at the discipline, the performances, we need to get to the summer and clear out all these Stam lovers.

I also noticed at the time that no players were 'liking' the social posts about Clement being appointed (apart from Mannone, who was dropped at the end of Stam regime so no shock there).

So I can't have any blame for Clement for Saturday, it was non-league defending and hideous mistakes like the 10 misplaced Swift passes that cost us. Players heads aren't in it.

We will luck out and survive on Sunday due to other teams downfall - then clear the problem players out, get the likes of Popa etc back. New season, new team.

Rant over.

Agree with much of this.

Clement has publicly called out the team as the work rate and application is simply not there.

Clement has already said the team severely require sintensity back in the style. It's not easy to introduce that 40 games in to a season.

This lot loved Stam because they had it easy. oxf*rd all tempo and it was always the fans fault, not the players or manager.

Im happy to give Clement a chance to make his mark over the summer. It's abundantly clear how poorly this team was prepared pre season, then managed and conditioned as the season has progressed.

lucky to have Clement and lucky to be rid of Stam. all points you make I agree with especially our poor pre season (only wish I'd have posted it back in August )

If we're going down the route of a footballing side then Clement is our man to rebuild over time. If you want 442 with crash and bang then Mick McCarthy's your man but you'd be up in arms. The club will needs 2 or 3 years to settle, same said for the fans.

Football is a fickle game unfortunately. I would have loved to see the plymouth forum after they were bottom in December and didn't sack their boss and would love to see it now.