England’s World Cup Finals 2018

[stealthpapes]

Asked how he’s been preparing for any penalty shoot-out, Pickford explained: “It’s about how the taker’s looking at it, body language, where his shoulders or arms are... and sometimes you’ve just got to pick a side, wait and attack it.

“If you get there you get there and if you don’t, get the next one. If you save a couple, you can be a hero but there’s no pressure on you.”

Pickford said penalties are also “pot luck”

sigh.

Yes, sigh and all that, but as good as we get there will always be an element, however small, of luck. If the keeper guesses the right way, he's 50% of the way there.

I watched a video recently that analysed Eden Hazard's penalties, I'll try to find it, but in short it showed the key (barely perceptible, even slowed down) differences between his kicking technique, including front foot placement and angle, for a penalty to each of the left and the right.

Best thing about penalties of course is failed Panenkas.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdu5pweeDiI

Eden Hazard's penalty choices i.e. right, left, etc, are (apparently) almost random. Its as if he's playing game theory with it.

Magnificent.

[6ft Kerplunk]

In a penalty shootout I always think that keeper's are better off not picking a side and diving early. You're not going save the good penalties so wait for the shit ones. You know they be one or two nervy takers that'll just try and blast it as hard as they can and will be more down the middle than right into a corner. For once in a tournament I hope the assistant refs actually bother to check for keepers moving forward off their line and then pundits getting an a massive tizz as they don't understand the rules about keepers getting yellow cards.

[Silver Fox]

For once in a tournament I hope the assistant refs actually bother to check for keepers moving forward off their line and then Jonathan Pearce getting an a massive tizz as they don't understand the rules about keepers getting yellow cards.

Tidied up for you

[Hoop Blah]

Decent performance from England last night, especially considering it wasn't the full strength side.

I'm predicting that, injuries aside, Southgate will start the Tunisia game with:

.......................Pickford
..........Walker, Stones, Maguire
Trippier........Henderson.........Rose
........Loftus-Cheek..........Alli
.....................Kane....Sterling

Cahill and Rashford have really pushed their case over the last couple of games but I believe Southgate will stick with Serling up tops, as he seems to fancy him and Kane as the preferred partnership, and Walker at the back for the greater ability to come forward plus you have Walkers pace to cover things on the break at the back.

Rose surely has to start over Young, and I think Loftus-Cheek is the better bet to start in the middle with Lingard more likely to make an impact off the bench.

[Old Man Andrews]

Really think Rashford played his way into the starting line up last night. I can see Southgate chopping and changing the team depending omn the opponent which I support. In the past we have had managers too faithful to their set in stone best 11 players, just don't think thats the answer with England.

[winchester_royal]

Personally I'd just about have Sterling over Rashford. Sterling gets a bad rep because his end product isn't always perfect, but his movement/pace etc is excellent and will be important when breaking down the two teams first up who are more likely to sit back.

Despite my initial reservations I'm really warming to Southgate, and actually quite enjoy the system he's decided we're going with. Perhaps the one shame is that I can't see a way of us being able to fit both Rashford and Sterling into it.

Don't think we'll win the thing, but I can certainly see the team/management coming back with reputations enhanced at the end of it.

My 1st XI FWIW (PNM)

Pickford

Trippier
Walker
Stones
Cahill
Rose

RLC
Henderson
Alli

Kane
Sterling

[Snowflake Royal]

I've really liked the look of RLC, but thought I'd be out on a limb starting him Delph and Henderson over Alli.

[John Madejski's Wallet]

Asked how he’s been preparing for any penalty shoot-out, Pickford explained: “It’s about how the taker’s looking at it, body language, where his shoulders or arms are... and sometimes you’ve just got to pick a side, wait and attack it.

“If you get there you get there and if you don’t, get the next one. If you save a couple, you can be a hero but there’s no pressure on you.”

Pickford said penalties are also “pot luck”

sigh.

Quite

Once again showing why England will always be crap at pens. Personally I would rather a player try and hit an unsaveable pen an miss/hit post, than essentially toss a coin and side foot it hoping the keeper goes the other way.

Sadly our press and commentators all trot out the old "you've got to hit the target".

I mention this every tourny this conversation comes up, but a a fair few years ago the FA were approached by one of the UK unis who had research on penalties, and had analysed 1000s and 1000s of them, offering their input into the England teams penalty taking. They were told to go away and that the team didn't need their help.

Cue to competition and we go out on pens to Portugal (iirc). There was an overlay of the "area of unsaveability", showing that all (bar one iirc) Portugal pen was completely unsaveable, while EVERY English one was in the saveable area. And it is ever thus

[tmesis]

You can pretty much guarantee that when the do "practice" penalties, they'll just take it in turns to have a shot each. There'll be no actual thought into it.

Given how rubbish we are at them, and how likely it is that any team that advances in the world cup will have to win one to do so, our lack of preparation is criminal.

It's like not bothering to practice set-pieces.


You'd think if there's one manager who'd know how important it is to be prepared to take a penalty, it'd be Gareth Southgate.

I remember Graeme Murty saying after his penalty against QPR that the delay didn't bother him, as he'd been practicing for ages, and knew exactly where he'd put it. Yet, with world cup participation on the line, we are happy to send players forward with the instruction to "hit it and hope".

[BR0B0T]

So how do practice absolutely shitting yourself...If you miss you're going to be crucified

they prolly do research, they prolly do practice

[Snowflake Royal]

So how do practice absolutely shitting yourself...If you miss you're going to be crucified

they prolly do research, they prolly do practice

It's Rugby, but Johnny Wilkinson is the perfect example of how you train to deal with the stress and pressure of a crucial match situation to be able to replicate trainung ground performance.

Rather than just say you can't replicate the pressure so do nothing about it, or the technique.

And this is the whole point. They DON'T practice for penalty shoot outs or research how to give themselves an edge.

[BR0B0T]

So how do practice absolutely shitting yourself...If you miss you're going to be crucified

they prolly do research, they prolly do practice

It's Rugby, but Johnny Wilkinson is the perfect example of how you train to deal with the stress and pressure of a crucial match situation to be able to replicate trainung ground performance.

Rather than just say you can't replicate the pressure so do nothing about it, or the technique.

And this is the whole point. They DON'T practice for penalty shoot outs or research how to give themselves an edge.

first result in google

Gareth Southgate puts England on penalty practice ahead of the World Cup
May 30, 2018
Three Lions goalkeeper Jordan Pickford reveals the squad are preparing for shoot-outs in Russia

http://www.theweek.co.uk/2018-world-cup ... d-pickford

[Snowflake Royal]

So how do practice absolutely shitting yourself...If you miss you're going to be crucified

they prolly do research, they prolly do practice

It's Rugby, but Johnny Wilkinson is the perfect example of how you train to deal with the stress and pressure of a crucial match situation to be able to replicate trainung ground performance.

Rather than just say you can't replicate the pressure so do nothing about it, or the technique.

And this is the whole point. They DON'T practice for penalty shoot outs or research how to give themselves an edge.

first result in google

Gareth Southgate puts England on penalty practice ahead of the World Cup
May 30, 2018
Three Lions goalkeeper Jordan Pickford reveals the squad are preparing for shoot-outs in Russia

http://www.theweek.co.uk/2018-world-cup ... d-pickford

Which I believe is the article that kicked all this off showing they aren't taking the practice seriously or doing any research as it's just about luck. Proper practicing of penalties isn't just taking some, it's looking at how to take the best penalty and where to aim.

[BR0B0T]

It's Rugby, but Johnny Wilkinson is the perfect example of how you train to deal with the stress and pressure of a crucial match situation to be able to replicate trainung ground performance.

Rather than just say you can't replicate the pressure so do nothing about it, or the technique.

And this is the whole point. They DON'T practice for penalty shoot outs or research how to give themselves an edge.

first result in google

Gareth Southgate puts England on penalty practice ahead of the World Cup
May 30, 2018
Three Lions goalkeeper Jordan Pickford reveals the squad are preparing for shoot-outs in Russia

http://www.theweek.co.uk/2018-world-cup ... d-pickford

Which I believe is the article that kicked all this off showing they aren't taking the practice seriously or doing any research as it's just about luck. Proper practicing of penalties isn't just taking some, it's looking at how to take the best penalty and where to aim.

nope looked through a load of articles dated early May etc they've looked at all the angles

[Sutekh]

first result in google



http://www.theweek.co.uk/2018-world-cup ... d-pickford

Which I believe is the article that kicked all this off showing they aren't taking the practice seriously or doing any research as it's just about luck. Proper practicing of penalties isn't just taking some, it's looking at how to take the best penalty and where to aim.

nope looked through a load of articles dated early May etc they've looked at all the angles

Esp. the angles necessary to put the ball wide, over or at the perfect height for the keeper

[BR0B0T]

Which I believe is the article that kicked all this off showing they aren't taking the practice seriously or doing any research as it's just about luck. Proper practicing of penalties isn't just taking some, it's looking at how to take the best penalty and where to aim.

nope looked through a load of articles dated early May etc they've looked at all the angles

Esp. the angles necessary to put the ball wide, over or at the perfect height for the keeper

I cross 'em over, you put them away!!

[Mid Sussex Royal]

Thinking to keep a separate dedicated thread for England’s World Cup build up, games and other escapades rather than having it lost in the general WC thread.

So an OK performance against two different Nigeria’s sees a first half win over a lack lustre not really at the races Nigeria and a second half defeat to a much more lively and with it Nigeria. Not sure what GS or anyone can have learned from that though.

And looking back at England’s record in finals since 1990 it is generally depressing, though consistent:

1990 : WC - semi final defeat on penalties to West Germany
1992 : Euros - failed to get out of group
1996 : Euros - semi final defeat on penalties to Germany
1998 : WC - last 16 defeat on penalties to Argentina
2000 : Euros - failed to get out of group
2002 : WC - quarter final defeat to Brazil
2004 : Euros - quarter final defeat on penalties to Portugal
2006 : WC - quarter final defeat on penalties to Portugal
2010 : WC - quarter final defeat to Germany
2012 : Euros - quarter final defeat on penalties to Italy
2014 : WC - failed to get out of group
2016 : Euros - last 16 defeat to Iceland

Played 7 penalty shoot outs in finals and lost 6 of them. Has to be the worst record of those teams that have benn in them from 1990 onwards.

I always liken the chances of England being successful in a penalty shoot out as being about the same as us winning the play offs.

[Hoop Blah]

I can’t find a couple of articles I’d read on penalties, techniques and practising them, but this one on the BBC gives a bit of an overview of the work Southgate and The FA have been doing.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44039951

This image does show how the ones we’ve had saved have been pretty saveable, unlike many against us (the German ones spring to mind).

[John Madejski's Wallet]

Zactly ...... all in the saveable area.

Just toss a coin and be done with it you gutless fukks.

At least Waddle, Young and Beckham were trying to put it out of the keeper's reach

[Sanguine]

I know it doesn't speak much of techniques, but if you mapped all of the scored penalties in world cup shootouts, I'd venture they are in the majority in the same areas. But send the keeper the wrong way and it goes in.

Point I am making is that even for those above (Pearce's an obvious exception, he just wellied it), most probably did choose a side and go for it.