Clement

[Cape Town Royal]

The context is though that Clement was clearly given a rather limited budget to fill the gaps and I think has done OKish ... signed a few frees and somehow turned Meite into a striker. Others signings have been flops but that happens when you have limited budget ... I do think that another manager COULD turn it around, but that would depend on getting a really good one, but I doubt there is anyone that good waiting in the wings so I'd stick with what we've got.

I'm still unsure of PC, but regarding Meite he deserves some credit. Came back from loan and PC has seen something in him that has transformed him into a key player this season...

Will be interesting to what happens to Novakovich (spelling?) at the end of this season...

Listening to his interview yesterday, you get the sense that he can see the problems, he's working on them, but come Saturday, they just don't follow the plan as we saw in the first half yesterday. Then second half you see they are playing for him, because they went for it... is it confidence, trust in each other as a team.? Trust in his tactics? Hard to say because we so erratic... just not sure... Maybe they all need to see a shrink!

I know one thing, if I was a manager who spent all week working on a plan and then for 45 minutes on the Saturday the team does the opposite I'd be as frustrated as PC sounded when he was interviewed after the game.

[Cape Town Royal]

The context is though that Clement was clearly given a rather limited budget to fill the gaps and I think has done OKish ... signed a few frees and somehow turned Meite into a striker. Others signings have been flops but that happens when you have limited budget ... I do think that another manager COULD turn it around, but that would depend on getting a really good one, but I doubt there is anyone that good waiting in the wings so I'd stick with what we've got.

I'm still unsure of PC, but regarding Meite he deserves some credit. Came back from loan and PC has seen something in him that has transformed him into a key player this season...

Will be interesting to what happens to Novakovich (spelling?) at the end of this season...

Listening to his interview yesterday, you get the sense that he can see the problems, he's working on them, but come Saturday, they just don't follow the plan as we saw in the first half yesterday. Then second half you see they are playing for him, because they went for it... is it confidence, trust in each other as a team.? Trust in his tactics? Hard to say because we so erratic... just not sure... Maybe they all need to see a shrink!

I know one thing, if I was a manager who spent all week working on a plan and then for 45 minutes on the Saturday the team does the opposite I'd be as frustrated as PC sounded when he was interviewed after the game.

[Snowflake Royal]

One transfer window was never going to be enough. Fixing us is a long term project.

There are plenty of reasons to trust Clement. He kept us up last season. He clearly has an honest, pragmatic and accurate understanding of the problems. He's taken steps with transfers to address many of the problems intelligently, though of course not all have worked as you'd expect. He's moved pretty quickly to address major performance issues with individuals (McShane, Meyler, Aluko). He's addressed our achilles heel of not being able to score - you can't win if you don't score, but you can if you concede. He's cut the bullshit pass it round the back four, upping our tempo and making us more direct. We actually look like we at least want to score and win now, which often wasn't the case under Stam.

Clearly reaults aren't working. But there is simply no reason to think changing managers will help solve our problems because it's made very little difference to how good we look on most of the last three or four times we've done it. In fact it's seen us consistently get worse.

[leon]

Jesus Christ, we’re an absolute fcuking shambles.

We play the shittest team in the league and we make them look good.

The signings have been a shambles as well.

We need a tackling midfielder so we get in a bloke who wants to retire.

And we need a central defender so we get a bloke who really should retire.

Clement talks like a fan and not a leader.

That first half performance was possibly the worst 45 minutes I’ve seen Reading play.

Out.

Said it before but I'll say it again: Clement shouldn't get credit for his "honest" post match assessments. Recognising the problems week after week and being incapable of stopping them indicates, to me at least, a major problems with his abilities as a manager.

It does us no good him saying "we were so bad, I didn't recognise the players.." after each poor performance when he seems to have no idea how to get a good performance or even a consistently average performance out of this group.

I am puzzled by the faith shown in him. If someone could be arsed going through my posting history they'll see I'm normally overly supportive of managers and agree that chopping and changing does teams little good for the most part but what we have here is a manager with no discernable identity, no style or character that is represented on the pitch. He has no identity as a manager and that reflects on the pitch.

You can't polish a turd.
Clement fixed the Meyler mistake with Ezatolahi who didn't even get injured on our watch.
We got a decent performance last week.

The issues aren't tactics or team selection. They're the players and he's picking the best he has for the most part.

Love how you and Leon have banged on about how Barrow must play and dropping him for discipline issues was wrong, then he comes back in and fart arses about rather than be the saviour you seem to think he is.

Eh? Don’t remember saying he was our saviour, rather he was our best player last season and can hardly be dismissed as a luxury player.

He had a poor game yesterday but so did everyone else.

Anyway, there’s only so many times Clement can say how cross he is with the team and I think he’s run out now.

[Lower West]

O'Shea was daft

For the players coming through. Such as Rinomhota. Worth every penny. We need role models in the squad. Players that have achieved in their careers. Not ones content to milk big wages for simply turning up. O'Shea won't hold back behind closed doors.

This the same guy who's on for being relegated three times in three seasons? Great example he is.

Must have done something in his carrer to warrant 673 appearances . In the process has won

5 premiership titles
1 FA Cup
2 League Cups
4 Community Shield
1 Champions League

Who else in the current Reading squad has won anything? Cannot buy what he brings off the pitch.



Was a handball at Sunderland last year that made the difference to our season. Rather than going a goal up, Sunderland were reduced to 10 men. Changed the game. We might have won 3-0 in the end. Doesn't reflect the actual game until the turning point. If we had lost then...........

Mind you Stam would have gone quicker.

[Snowflake Royal]

For the players coming through. Such as Rinomhota. Worth every penny. We need role models in the squad. Players that have achieved in their careers. Not ones content to milk big wages for simply turning up. O'Shea won't hold back behind closed doors.

This the same guy who's on for being relegated three times in three seasons? Great example he is.

Must have done something in his carrer to warrant 673 appearances . In the process has won

5 premiership titles
1 FA Cup
2 League Cups
4 Community Shield
1 Champions League

Who else in the current Reading squad has won anything? Cannot buy what he brings off the pitch.



Was a handball at Sunderland last year that made the difference to our season. Rather than going a goal up, Sunderland were reduced to 10 men. Changed the game. We might have won 3-0 in the end. Doesn't reflect the actual game until the turning point. If we had lost then...........

Mind you Stam would have gone quicker.

I don't care what he did six years ago. I want someone who can do something now.

[sandman]

Well we haven't got anyone who can properly do something now so you'll have to wait until January.

[Hound]

well Jokanovic sacked by Fulham as expected

Definitely an option there if PC doesn't get a run going

[leon]

well Jokanovic sacked by Fulham as expected

Definitely an option there if PC doesn't get a run going

I don't know. I can't help but think that Jokanovic greatly benefited from inheriting a really decent crop of youngsters and had money behind him to build a team.

[NewCorkSeth]

well Jokanovic sacked by Fulham as expected

Definitely an option there if PC doesn't get a run going

I don't know. I can't help but think that Jokanovic greatly benefited from inheriting a really decent crop of youngsters and had money behind him to build a team.

Do we not have a decent crop of youngsters?

[Hound]

well Jokanovic sacked by Fulham as expected

Definitely an option there if PC doesn't get a run going

I don't know. I can't help but think that Jokanovic greatly benefited from inheriting a really decent crop of youngsters and had money behind him to build a team.

Do we not have a decent crop of youngsters?

And possibly some money as well

[leon]

I don't know. I can't help but think that Jokanovic greatly benefited from inheriting a really decent crop of youngsters and had money behind him to build a team.

Do we not have a decent crop of youngsters?

And possibly some money as well

And a shit defence. So in that case lads, I'm in.

[Elm Park Kid]

well Jokanovic sacked by Fulham as expected

Definitely an option there if PC doesn't get a run going

I don't know. I can't help but think that Jokanovic greatly benefited from inheriting a really decent crop of youngsters and had money behind him to build a team.

Do we not have a decent crop of youngsters?

No . . . . .

[Brain Traysers]

I don't know. I can't help but think that Jokanovic greatly benefited from inheriting a really decent crop of youngsters and had money behind him to build a team.

Do we not have a decent crop of youngsters?

No . . . . .

This. Considering players who actually have broken through*, Dembele and Sessegnon > Kelly and Rinomhota

*we can still fantasise that Loader/Novakovich will be a 50 goal strike force

[Lower West]

This. Considering players who actually have broken through*, Dembele and Sessegnon > Kelly and Rinomhota

*we can still fantasise that Loader/Novakovich will be a 50 goal strike force

Richards as well.

[NewCorkSeth]

This. Considering players who actually have broken through*, Dembele and Sessegnon > Kelly and Rinomhota

*we can still fantasise that Loader/Novakovich will be a 50 goal strike force

Richards as well.

And Watson

[Brain Traysers]

This. Considering players who actually have broken through*, Dembele and Sessegnon > Kelly and Rinomhota

*we can still fantasise that Loader/Novakovich will be a 50 goal strike force

Richards as well.

True - the point is our academy has been producing players who will likely play the majority of their careers at Championship or below level, which in itself is an achievement, but a long way behind Dembele (22 and playing in CL with Lyon) and Sessegnon (a top Championship player while 17), who are both very likely future internationals.

We have a decent crop of youngsters, but Jokanovic inherited a team with those two (having just sold Patrick Roberts to Man City), which in today's money is probably >£40m in talent.

[NewCorkSeth]

This. Considering players who actually have broken through*, Dembele and Sessegnon > Kelly and Rinomhota

*we can still fantasise that Loader/Novakovich will be a 50 goal strike force

Richards as well.

True - the point is our academy has been producing players who will likely play the majority of their careers at Championship or below level, which in itself is an achievement, but a long way behind Dembele (22 and playing in CL with Lyon) and Sessegnon (a top Championship player while 17), who are both very likely future internationals.

We have a decent crop of youngsters, but Jokanovic inherited a team with those two (having just sold Patrick Roberts to Man City), which in today's money is probably >£40m in talent.

But you have the benefit of hindsight with those players.. you don't know what our crop will be like in 4 years. Dembeles breakout season was 4 years into his Fulham stint.

Patrick Roberts isn't exactly living up to his touted potential either.

[Brain Traysers]

Richards as well.

True - the point is our academy has been producing players who will likely play the majority of their careers at Championship or below level, which in itself is an achievement, but a long way behind Dembele (22 and playing in CL with Lyon) and Sessegnon (a top Championship player while 17), who are both very likely future internationals.

We have a decent crop of youngsters, but Jokanovic inherited a team with those two (having just sold Patrick Roberts to Man City), which in today's money is probably >£40m in talent.

But you have the benefit of hindsight with those players.. you don't know what our crop will be like in 4 years. Dembeles breakout season was 4 years into his Fulham stint.

Patrick Roberts isn't exactly living up to his touted potential either.

I think its a fair comparison, and comparable generations - Dembele and Roberts were in the Fulham team that always seemed to beat our most promising generation of youngsters (Fosu, Kelly, Fosu, Kuhl, Stacey, Watson all played against them in the FA youth cup final back in 2014). Dembele has gone onto big things, and Roberts is being nurtured by Man City, with 1.5 very good seasons at Celtic on his CV, and he is currently a bit part player at 8th placed La Liga team Girona - this is a much higher level than any of our bunch. Only Gylfi is playing at a comparable level and at Robert/Dembele's age he was in his final season with us playing Championship football.

Sessegnon ins't comparable with any of our lot, and until we get a 16 year old good enough to play first team football, he never will be.

The point stands - Jokanovic inherited two incredibly talented players for this level, and we (and every other club at this level) are unlikely to be able to do the same any time soon. I don't place too much weight on him bringing them through either - there has been a lot of hype over them for a number of years. Novakovich (already 22) and Loader (only 18) look the most likely, but neither are seemingly near the starting line up

[Snowflake Royal]

Richards as well.

True - the point is our academy has been producing players who will likely play the majority of their careers at Championship or below level, which in itself is an achievement, but a long way behind Dembele (22 and playing in CL with Lyon) and Sessegnon (a top Championship player while 17), who are both very likely future internationals.

We have a decent crop of youngsters, but Jokanovic inherited a team with those two (having just sold Patrick Roberts to Man City), which in today's money is probably >£40m in talent.

But you have the benefit of hindsight with those players.. you don't know what our crop will be like in 4 years. Dembeles breakout season was 4 years into his Fulham stint.

Patrick Roberts isn't exactly living up to his touted potential either.

iirc Fulham's youth sides usually played us off the park. I watched a game with Roberts in and he was miles ahead of anyone we had. And he wasn't at the same level as Sess.

We've got a decent crop and Loader in particular looks good. But it's not in the same league.