Tiago llori

[URZZZZ]

I'm bored of this argument now

Answer me these four questions

1. How many times has O'Shea started for us this season
2. How many games have we kept a clean sheet this season?
3. How many times has O'Shea started in those clean sheet games?
4. How many clean sheets have we kept without O'Shea?

So no, he hasn't been awful

1. 9 times
2. One, as he was red carded in one and therefore didn't play a part in that achievement. He was also hauled off early in the other.

There's absolutely no way of defending his signing - we were able to do better than him in the summer and we didn't and it's part of the reason we are where we are now.

You were wrong

He's played seven times in the league and twice in the cup. We've kept three clean sheets in the league so far this season (Hull at home) QPR away and Wigan away. He was present in all three of those games, completing the 90 minutes twice and getting sent off in the 82nd minute the other time where he got a standing ovation when sent off...

We've kept 0 clean sheets without him, in the other 19 league games.

But I do agree with you on the second part, it was a stupid signing and one that wasn't needed, and we could and should have got better. Just feel he's had unfair press because of his age and past, he actually hasn't been that bad

[Stranded]

I'm bored of this argument now

Answer me these four questions

1. How many times has O'Shea started for us this season
2. How many games have we kept a clean sheet this season?
3. How many times has O'Shea started in those clean sheet games?
4. How many clean sheets have we kept without O'Shea?

So no, he hasn't been awful

1. 9 times
2. One, as he was red carded in one and therefore didn't play a part in that achievement. He was also hauled off early in the other.

There's absolutely no way of defending his signing - we were able to do better than him in the summer and we didn't and it's part of the reason we are where we are now.

I know you enjoy being arsey but he was red carded in the 83rd minute, stopping a likely goal. Played the full 90 at Wigan and the full 90 at QPR.

So in 3 clean sheets he played 263 minutes of them. We've kept 3 clean sheets in the league.

So the answers are:

1. 8 starts
2. 3 clean sheets in the league (4 in total)
3. O'Shea started all 3 playing 263 mins (only played 8 mins v Brum in LC)
4. None

Now doesn't of course mean that O'Shea is amazing - he played v Swansea of course - but an intriguing stat.

[Hound]

tbf, Hull (at the time) and Wigan were two of the worst teams we have played. QPR was a decent achievement. Fat Martin prob would have scored as a result of O Shea's slowness when he was sent off

He hasn't been absolutely terrible on the pitch, but the fact he has been injured a lot (twice when he has been there as a sub), is probably not cheap, not a long term option, and is having no discernibly positive effect on his fellow defenders makes him a very poor signing imo

[URZZZZ]

He hasn't been absolutely terrible on the pitch, but the fact he has been injured a lot (twice when he has been there as a sub), is probably not cheap, not a long term option, and is having no discernibly positive effect on his fellow defenders makes him a very poor signing imo[/quote]

That's a good post TBF, it's what I was trying to allude to

[Victor Meldrew]

tbf, Hull (at the time) and Wigan were two of the worst teams we have played. QPR was a decent achievement. Fat Martin prob would have scored as a result of O Shea's slowness when he was sent off

He hasn't been absolutely terrible on the pitch, but the fact he has been injured a lot (twice when he has been there as a sub), is probably not cheap, not a long term option, and is having no discernibly positive effect on his fellow defenders makes him a very poor signing imo

And he has been paid around £500,000.
Is that a good enough return , bearing in mind he has another injury?

[muirinho]

esp rubbish journeymen

I know McShane, Meyler and the like haven't ripped up trees while here, but playing a hundred games in the PL is hardly "rubbish journeymen" level.

Players are essentially self-employed with a limited time to do as well as they can. So if they aren't getting game time, and have no prospect of it, they have to move on. Given the high turnover of managers, who want to bring in their own players, it's not always their choice either.

It's not like we show any loyalty to them - take a look at what gets said regularly about McCleary for instance - he's been here for over 6 years, is still a useful option off the bench, has never done anything even remotely unprofessional or disloyal - but is fit for nothing but glue factory according to some.

I respect McCleary for what he's done for us over the years but he's so past it now it's unreal. He's scored 1 goal for us since the end of 2016, I get that he's been injured for some of it, but that is still a really poor record for a winger

But that is exactly my point. As soon as a player becomes squad/bench material, rather than first team, you'll get the "he's useless, get rid" shouts. Rather than "let's keep players who are happy here, who won't moan if they aren't first choice, who'll cover lots of positions, who will do a job etc".
Yeah McCleary wasn't great in the last few games he played - but he was definitely better in that position than Barrow or Aluko. It's not his fault that he's being asked to be the main player instead of squad backup.
So - if we as a club don't show loyalty to our players, why should we expect loyalty back? And players know that too - there's no money to be made in setting down roots in a club like ours, you're better off getting regular signing-on fees and trying to up your salary, rather than staying put and taking pay cuts if the club aren't doing well.

[Hound]

I’ve plenty of time for McCleary still. Still a useful option and one who I see as a positive influence on the squad and behind the scenes

If we do go down will prob stick with us and be useful there as well

[Snowflake Royal]

Sunderland last year hardly stood out for their team spirit or defensive organisation either did they?

So why are we signing Ejaria then? I don't know what it is with us signing ex Sunderland players but we have at least five in our squad

FTR O'Shea hasn't even been that bad this season, I don't think he should be playing in the Championship but he's OK as a squad player, he can pick out a pass and understands the game well, pace is a major problem though

Regarding Ilori, we've looked a lot more solid without him than with him, even against QPR he still set them up for 3 decent chances which they fluffed. Please get rid

Ejaria's actually good and not passed it? Hopefully.

[Snowflake Royal]

ah right you are. He did indeed play for them 10 years ago

He did do ok vs Hull, but then got himself sent off. QPR I didn't watch so can't really comment, but will give you that. So 2 decent-is performances, some dross, and a lot of time on the physio room. No doubt at decent wage as well

I'd only go as far as OK performances when I've seen him, not actually good.

[Snowflake Royal]

I'm bored of this argument now

Answer me these four questions

1. How many times has O'Shea started for us this season
2. How many games have we kept a clean sheet this season?
3. How many times has O'Shea started in those clean sheet games?
4. How many clean sheets have we kept without O'Shea?

So no, he hasn't been awful

1. 9 times
2. One, as he was red carded in one and therefore didn't play a part in that achievement. He was also hauled off early in the other.

There's absolutely no way of defending his signing - we were able to do better than him in the summer and we didn't and it's part of the reason we are where we are now.

You were wrong

He's played seven times in the league and twice in the cup. We've kept three clean sheets in the league so far this season (Hull at home) QPR away and Wigan away. He was present in all three of those games, completing the 90 minutes twice and getting sent off in the 82nd minute the other time where he got a standing ovation when sent off...

We've kept 0 clean sheets without him, in the other 19 league games.

But I do agree with you on the second part, it was a stupid signing and one that wasn't needed, and we could and should have got better. Just feel he's had unfair press because of his age and past, he actually hasn't been that bad

Standing ovation when sent off? oxf*rd off did he. Maybe by four people with eyesight problems.

[Zip]

1. 9 times
2. One, as he was red carded in one and therefore didn't play a part in that achievement. He was also hauled off early in the other.

There's absolutely no way of defending his signing - we were able to do better than him in the summer and we didn't and it's part of the reason we are where we are now.

You were wrong

He's played seven times in the league and twice in the cup. We've kept three clean sheets in the league so far this season (Hull at home) QPR away and Wigan away. He was present in all three of those games, completing the 90 minutes twice and getting sent off in the 82nd minute the other time where he got a standing ovation when sent off...

We've kept 0 clean sheets without him, in the other 19 league games.

But I do agree with you on the second part, it was a stupid signing and one that wasn't needed, and we could and should have got better. Just feel he's had unfair press because of his age and past, he actually hasn't been that bad

Standing ovation when sent off? oxf*rd off did he. Maybe by four people with eyesight problems.

There was plenty of applause when he trooped off.

[Snowflake Royal]

You were wrong

He's played seven times in the league and twice in the cup. We've kept three clean sheets in the league so far this season (Hull at home) QPR away and Wigan away. He was present in all three of those games, completing the 90 minutes twice and getting sent off in the 82nd minute the other time where he got a standing ovation when sent off...

We've kept 0 clean sheets without him, in the other 19 league games.

But I do agree with you on the second part, it was a stupid signing and one that wasn't needed, and we could and should have got better. Just feel he's had unfair press because of his age and past, he actually hasn't been that bad

Standing ovation when sent off? oxf*rd off did he. Maybe by four people with eyesight problems.

There was plenty of applause when he trooped off.

Some polite applause is a little different to a standing ovation IMO.

[Sutekh]

Seems Tiago's given the green light to the move with a verbal agreement but Reading obviously have not accepted a bid yet

http://sportwitness.co.uk/reading-playe ... -bid-made/

[John Smith]

Some polite applause is a little different to a standing ovation IMO.

Both of which utterly ridiculous and out of place regarding a player who has just been red carded.

Glad to see the back of Ilori, as I am with any player in our squad. He needs to be replaced, however. And I don't mean with the ginger Irish footballing genius in the squad now.

[From Despair To Where?]

Well, I'm sure there's 30 year old non league journeyman somewhere that you can recommend.

[John Smith]

Well, I'm sure there's 30 year old non league journeyman somewhere that you can recommend.

I've already said that a decent, realistic CB option for us would be Michael Dawson. Highly respected pro with top level experience and up for a relegation fight

[From Despair To Where?]

Can't see Dawson leaving Forest.

[PistolPete]

The more I think about this, the more I think Illori could go on to have a top career at Sporting Lisbon.

On this basis, I’d accept £2m but insist on £2m if he starts 20 games, £2m if he gets called up to Portugal and maybe a few others. This means that SL only pay what he ends up
being worth...

[Hendo]

On this basis, I’d accept £2m but insist on £2m if he starts 20 games, £2m if he gets called up to Portugal and maybe a few others. This means that SL only pay what he ends up
being worth...

There is one man for this job...

[Lower West]

He hasn't been absolutely terrible on the pitch, but the fact he has been injured a lot (twice when he has been there as a sub), is probably not cheap, not a long term option, and is having no discernibly positive effect on his fellow defenders makes him a very poor signing imo

A major influence on the younger players such as Rinomhota. The experience he brings shouldn't be underestimated. Clement identified the lack of character in the squad towards the end of last season. Hence at the time a throwaway signing. Suspect he offers a lot on the training ground as well and in the dressing room.