by Silver Fox » 14 Feb 2019 10:57
by Millsy » 14 Feb 2019 10:58
by Nameless » 14 Feb 2019 11:02
NewCorkSethNamelessNewCorkSeth What? No they just accept both bids.. If they oxf*rd around too much Oliveira gets another loan and leaves on a free at the end of next season.
If Oliveira performs well for us and wants to come here they have to accept the agreed upon amount. It doesn't matter if someone offers double the player decides which contract to accept.
If someone offers double that is the deal that will be done, unless we up our bid ! Norwich would make it worth Oliviera’s while to go to the club offering the most money.
Presumably the pre agreed price will factor in the possibility that a player will perform well. It’s going to cost to have the option and potentially means you’re paying more than you need to in order to have this nominal ‘first option’.
Seems it’s essentially a gentleman’s agreement that is wide open to not being honoured. Has there ever been an instance where a club has had this ‘option’ but has not actually managed to sign the player and subsequently sued ? We had an option to buy Glenn Murraybut he just laughed and walked away - so much for that ‘option’ !
On Murray the club didn't laugh at us. Murray didn't want to move here. If he did they would have had to accept our bid.
Christ it's not that complicated! Norwich are not going to pay to sell a player so that's utter bollocks. If we have an agreement to buy for 5 million at the end of his loan that's the end of it. They are contractually obligated to accept our bid. If stoke come in and offer 6 million that means nothing to our bid.
Provided we want Oliveira and he wants to come here Norwich will have to accept the amount they agreed to in the loan deal. End of.
by NewCorkSeth » 14 Feb 2019 11:07
NamelessNewCorkSethNameless
If someone offers double that is the deal that will be done, unless we up our bid ! Norwich would make it worth Oliviera’s while to go to the club offering the most money.
Presumably the pre agreed price will factor in the possibility that a player will perform well. It’s going to cost to have the option and potentially means you’re paying more than you need to in order to have this nominal ‘first option’.
Seems it’s essentially a gentleman’s agreement that is wide open to not being honoured. Has there ever been an instance where a club has had this ‘option’ but has not actually managed to sign the player and subsequently sued ? We had an option to buy Glenn Murraybut he just laughed and walked away - so much for that ‘option’ !
On Murray the club didn't laugh at us. Murray didn't want to move here. If he did they would have had to accept our bid.
Christ it's not that complicated! Norwich are not going to pay to sell a player so that's utter bollocks. If we have an agreement to buy for 5 million at the end of his loan that's the end of it. They are contractually obligated to accept our bid. If stoke come in and offer 6 million that means nothing to our bid.
Provided we want Oliveira and he wants to come here Norwich will have to accept the amount they agreed to in the loan deal. End of.
But you said if another club offers more then Norwich accept both bids ! Meaning he goes to the other club.
We then have 2 options.
1. Sit there with our ‘guaranteed’ price and watch him go elsewhere
2. Up our bid
Bottom line is I expect no one really knows the situation but it’s obviously not legally watertight as the player will always veto a low bid in favour of a higher bid. My original thought (that it’s a pretty meaningless phrase) hasn’t been disproved.
The only situation I can see it is if there are no ther bids for the player, in which case you’ve probably ended up over paying by committing to a price too early.
by Hendo » 14 Feb 2019 11:11
2 world wars, 1 world cupRoyalBlue I really just do not get how anyone can see any of Martinez's performances since he joined us that way. Try running back through game footage and producing evidence to support those claims. I'm pretty sure I can guess what our defenders would say as well. Rubbish scuffs when he hoofs it?
Exactly this.
Shotstopping - brilliant.
Distribution - brilliant.
Command of area - brilliant.
Organising defence (in such a short space of time!) - brilliant.
I don't necessarily like the style of him passing it out and to begin with it used to make me cringe but a) it's what he's being asked to do, not his choice necesarily and b) I've been watching closely and every single pass he's made has found the intended player, and that player has always managed to hold it, pass it off, do something with it. Several times that cringeworthy pass has drawn pressing opposition players onto the defender who were quickly bypassed and we exploited the space to attack. I've been really really impressed with his ability to do this and the defenders' ability to take the ball.
There have however been some shocking passes BACK to Martinez putting him under pressure but that's a different matter.
I desperately hope we sign him permanently but somehow doubt he'll be allowed to leave.
Hendo2 world wars, 1 world cupRoyalBlue I really just do not get how anyone can see any of Martinez's performances since he joined us that way. Try running back through game footage and producing evidence to support those claims. I'm pretty sure I can guess what our defenders would say as well. Rubbish scuffs when he hoofs it?
Exactly this.
Shotstopping - brilliant.
Distribution - brilliant.
Command of area - brilliant.
Organising defence (in such a short space of time!) - brilliant.
I don't necessarily like the style of him passing it out and to begin with it used to make me cringe but a) it's what he's being asked to do, not his choice necesarily and b) I've been watching closely and every single pass he's made has found the intended player, and that player has always managed to hold it, pass it off, do something with it. Several times that cringeworthy pass has drawn pressing opposition players onto the defender who were quickly bypassed and we exploited the space to attack. I've been really really impressed with his ability to do this and the defenders' ability to take the ball.
There have however been some shocking passes BACK to Martinez putting him under pressure but that's a different matter.
I desperately hope we sign him permanently but somehow doubt he'll be allowed to leave.
+1, apart from his pass straight to a Rovers player in the second half, he only blemish when distributing really.
We should be offering Arsenal all the money for him.
by Nameless » 14 Feb 2019 11:18
by Ranty McRantface » 14 Feb 2019 11:20
by Ascotexgunner » 14 Feb 2019 11:25
Old Man AndrewsHendo2 world wars, 1 world cup
Exactly this.
Shotstopping - brilliant.
Distribution - brilliant.
Command of area - brilliant.
Organising defence (in such a short space of time!) - brilliant.
I don't necessarily like the style of him passing it out and to begin with it used to make me cringe but a) it's what he's being asked to do, not his choice necesarily and b) I've been watching closely and every single pass he's made has found the intended player, and that player has always managed to hold it, pass it off, do something with it. Several times that cringeworthy pass has drawn pressing opposition players onto the defender who were quickly bypassed and we exploited the space to attack. I've been really really impressed with his ability to do this and the defenders' ability to take the ball.
There have however been some shocking passes BACK to Martinez putting him under pressure but that's a different matter.
I desperately hope we sign him permanently but somehow doubt he'll be allowed to leave.
+1, apart from his pass straight to a Rovers player in the second half, he only blemish when distributing really.
We should be offering Arsenal all the money for him.
What would you choose if you were him though? An improved deal at Arsenal to be their number 2 and play cup and Europa League games or earn half the money for playing Championship Football probably for at least two years based on the current squad and recent history?
by Nameless » 14 Feb 2019 11:27
NewCorkSethNamelessNewCorkSeth On Murray the club didn't laugh at us. Murray didn't want to move here. If he did they would have had to accept our bid.
Christ it's not that complicated! Norwich are not going to pay to sell a player so that's utter bollocks. If we have an agreement to buy for 5 million at the end of his loan that's the end of it. They are contractually obligated to accept our bid. If stoke come in and offer 6 million that means nothing to our bid.
Provided we want Oliveira and he wants to come here Norwich will have to accept the amount they agreed to in the loan deal. End of.
But you said if another club offers more then Norwich accept both bids ! Meaning he goes to the other club.
We then have 2 options.
1. Sit there with our ‘guaranteed’ price and watch him go elsewhere
2. Up our bid
Bottom line is I expect no one really knows the situation but it’s obviously not legally watertight as the player will always veto a low bid in favour of a higher bid. My original thought (that it’s a pretty meaningless phrase) hasn’t been disproved.
The only situation I can see it is if there are no ther bids for the player, in which case you’ve probably ended up over paying by committing to a price too early.
The money that we save by having a guaranteed bid means we can up our contract offer. Just because another club can offer a higher transfer fee to Norwich doesn't mean Oliveira will go there. If he likes it here he will come here.
AscotexgunnerOld Man AndrewsHendo
+1, apart from his pass straight to a Rovers player in the second half, he only blemish when distributing really.
We should be offering Arsenal all the money for him.
What would you choose if you were him though? An improved deal at Arsenal to be their number 2 and play cup and Europa League games or earn half the money for playing Championship Football probably for at least two years based on the current squad and recent history?
I doubt he will get an improved deal at Arsenal. Leno has been getting pelters from the fans and a lot of people are questioning the guys ability. I reckon they are gonna be in for another keeper and Martinez will be frozen out. Judging by Martinez ability he would be worth putting a cheeky bid in for because Im pretty sure we could sell him for a profit if he continues like this and wants to move on.
by Hound » 14 Feb 2019 11:30
by Hendo » 14 Feb 2019 11:32
Old Man AndrewsAscotexgunnerOld Man Andrews
What would you choose if you were him though? An improved deal at Arsenal to be their number 2 and play cup and Europa League games or earn half the money for playing Championship Football probably for at least two years based on the current squad and recent history?
I doubt he will get an improved deal at Arsenal. Leno has been getting pelters from the fans and a lot of people are questioning the guys ability. I reckon they are gonna be in for another keeper and Martinez will be frozen out. Judging by Martinez ability he would be worth putting a cheeky bid in for because Im pretty sure we could sell him for a profit if he continues like this and wants to move on.
Would 100% get one if he moves into the number 2 slot, he will currently be on peanuts. Don't forget Arsenal haven't got any money, think their priorities will be on spending what they have in the outfield positions. Time will tell.
HendoOld Man AndrewsAscotexgunner
I doubt he will get an improved deal at Arsenal. Leno has been getting pelters from the fans and a lot of people are questioning the guys ability. I reckon they are gonna be in for another keeper and Martinez will be frozen out. Judging by Martinez ability he would be worth putting a cheeky bid in for because Im pretty sure we could sell him for a profit if he continues like this and wants to move on.
Would 100% get one if he moves into the number 2 slot, he will currently be on peanuts. Don't forget Arsenal haven't got any money, think their priorities will be on spending what they have in the outfield positions. Time will tell.
LOL. They are one of, if not the, most cash rich clubs in the country.
It all depends if Arsenal get another 'keeper in, if they do then hopefully our old mate Sal can convince him to make the short journey down the M4.
by Greatwesternline » 14 Feb 2019 11:36
NamelessNewCorkSethNameless
But you said if another club offers more then Norwich accept both bids ! Meaning he goes to the other club.
We then have 2 options.
1. Sit there with our ‘guaranteed’ price and watch him go elsewhere
2. Up our bid
Bottom line is I expect no one really knows the situation but it’s obviously not legally watertight as the player will always veto a low bid in favour of a higher bid. My original thought (that it’s a pretty meaningless phrase) hasn’t been disproved.
The only situation I can see it is if there are no ther bids for the player, in which case you’ve probably ended up over paying by committing to a price too early.
The money that we save by having a guaranteed bid means we can up our contract offer. Just because another club can offer a higher transfer fee to Norwich doesn't mean Oliveira will go there. If he likes it here he will come here.
First of all our ‘guaranteed’ bid doesn’t guarantee we save anything.
Someone else could under bid us and use the money they save to offer the player more. If they offer more, he’ll go there.
It’s just such a loose and woolly exercise.
I think we see this differently, I’m happy to accept our differences and perhaps move on.....
by URZZZZ » 14 Feb 2019 11:37
by Millsy » 14 Feb 2019 11:42
Hound I actually like us playing out from the back. Realise I'm in a bit of a minority, but we do it properly now and it creates opportunities. Very little of that horrible Stam ball where we bobbled it slowly from one side of the defence to the other
That fantastic move at the start of the second half after we seemingly had overplayed at the back was a great example of it working well. If you can draw in their midfield into a press, it leaves wide open spaces if you break through. And I'm confident enough in our defence to break the press and defend even if we do lose it.
by Ascotexgunner » 14 Feb 2019 11:42
Old Man AndrewsHendoOld Man Andrews
Would 100% get one if he moves into the number 2 slot, he will currently be on peanuts. Don't forget Arsenal haven't got any money, think their priorities will be on spending what they have in the outfield positions. Time will tell.
LOL. They are one of, if not the, most cash rich clubs in the country.
It all depends if Arsenal get another 'keeper in, if they do then hopefully our old mate Sal can convince him to make the short journey down the M4.
Which is why no money was made available in January for Emery then.......... They are rich but do not provide significant transfer funds for their managers, haven't since they left Highbury. Keep up. Try not to take things literally either, pretty sure we all know they are a well off club that wasn't the point as you well know. You went for a cheap points score and failed.
by NewCorkSeth » 14 Feb 2019 11:44
NamelessNewCorkSethNameless
But you said if another club offers more then Norwich accept both bids ! Meaning he goes to the other club.
We then have 2 options.
1. Sit there with our ‘guaranteed’ price and watch him go elsewhere
2. Up our bid
Bottom line is I expect no one really knows the situation but it’s obviously not legally watertight as the player will always veto a low bid in favour of a higher bid. My original thought (that it’s a pretty meaningless phrase) hasn’t been disproved.
The only situation I can see it is if there are no ther bids for the player, in which case you’ve probably ended up over paying by committing to a price too early.
The money that we save by having a guaranteed bid means we can up our contract offer. Just because another club can offer a higher transfer fee to Norwich doesn't mean Oliveira will go there. If he likes it here he will come here.
First of all our ‘guaranteed’ bid doesn’t guarantee we save anything.
Someone else could under bid us and use the money they save to offer the player more. If they offer more, he’ll go there.
It’s just such a loose and woolly exercise.
I think we see this differently, I’m happy to accept our differences and perhaps move on.....
by Vision » 14 Feb 2019 11:45
Old Man AndrewsHendoOld Man Andrews
Would 100% get one if he moves into the number 2 slot, he will currently be on peanuts. Don't forget Arsenal haven't got any money, think their priorities will be on spending what they have in the outfield positions. Time will tell.
LOL. They are one of, if not the, most cash rich clubs in the country.
It all depends if Arsenal get another 'keeper in, if they do then hopefully our old mate Sal can convince him to make the short journey down the M4.
Which is why no money was made available in January for Emery then.......... They are rich but do not provide significant transfer funds for their managers, haven't since they left Highbury. Keep up. Try not to take things literally either, pretty sure we all know they are a well off club that wasn't the point as you well know. You went for a cheap points score and failed.
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